I fully agree with @Maywood. Shipping is a clever way for companies to make a quick profit and the customer never knows any different - until a company decides not do continue that practice.
In reading this thread, I came up with a few things:
The shipping times may make sense for a lot that was at lot viewing halfway across the country.
The shipping dept. may be understaffed and swamped by large auctions. I would say hire more people, but I could see a problem with that as there seems to be trouble hiring. Perhaps Heritage can pay their employees a little more or offer a sign on bonus. Don't know if that would work.
While the two above excuse how long it takes to ship a coin, it does bot fix one glaring issue. Heritage has angry customers all over the place and they are only making the problem worse by ignoring those customers. While Heritage might be a larger company than any of the other smaller auction houses, there's never an excuse to ignore your paying customers. This is not a good idea for any company, ever. Rather than having people go out and say how awesome your company is, you get results like this. Hundreds of mad customers telling people just how annoying their experience has been. That's just not good.
@MasonG never said it cost Heritage $127 to ship that package. I think his point is that they are "only" charging $40 to ship a package that has a retail cost of $127. So that is not exactly price gouging.
Gouging may be going a little too far but yes, $40 is overpriced for a company of their size and scale that ALSO charges a 20% buyer's premium.
I won't speak for others but every comment I've made and I think the general tone of most is that given a very high BP% AND expensive shipping (compared to others) should entitle the buyers to very fast or best in class shipping and handling times. And, despite their scale, in person auctions, and highest overall cost, we are in fact getting very poor shipping and handling speed. That is where my issues lie. Highest cost and worst outcome. That seems incontrovertible to me.
You can compare to the Heritage Shipping Rates above
GC Shipping Rates
Approx. Delivery Time * Base Cost Per Coin Max Invoice
USPS First Class ** 2-8 days $5.00 $0.50 $500.00
USPS Priority Mail 2-5 days $15.00 $0.50 $10,000.00
USPS Express Mail 1-2 days $39.00 $1.00 No Limit
Fedex 2-Day 2 days $14.00 $0.50 $25,000.00
Fedex Overnight 1 day $37.00 $1.00 No Limit
Shipping costs aside, another clever way to add cost used by many companies is the "Handling Fee" which is added to every sale. It can best be described with one word: Greed.
@alefzero said:
It's always been slow. I think they run on the old paradigm where the lots are shipped via ground transport to and from show venues. Then there is expected due diligence in the inventory control with scans at every waypoint. So the lots from an auction held at a show end up not shipping until they have returned to Dallas and have gone through both inventory control and payment verification. Also, there are post-auction buys that some make that revise their invoices (sometimes crossing limits to avoid sales taxes for retail customers) and combine shipping.
They do on-site pickups after auctions. I cannot see why they cannot also just ship from the shows for fully paid winnings. But like differences in buyer fees, it always comes down to which company has the coins you want. From there, just need to have patience with the different approaches. It does get frustrating for dealers though (same goes for the TPGs) when the capital has been invested in the coins but they are not in hand to set up at a show for weeks (or months for TPGs).
To ship from the site, they would have to bring a trukload of supplies and equipment and tent a room large enough to accommodate it.
I agree with that and it should help further explain the more general issue. There are a number of latencies associated with running auctions associated with and local to major coin shows. There might still be inefficiencies. Who knows? But the bottom line is that lot winners need to wait for coins and consignors need to wait for proceeds need to wait a bit longer than under more simplistic circumstances.
HOWEVER, I still think comparing GC to Heritage isn't exactly fair, especially if the Heritage auction was connected to a show that had off-site viewing. You can't even start the clock until the coins have been shipped back to Heritage and that shipping won't take place until AFTER the show and related auction is over. If you win a coin on the 1st day of CNS, the coins won't even be on their way back to Dallas until after the last day of central states. They then need to be unpacked, etc.
But, again, you can choose to not do business with Heritage for any reason, even if it is just the color of their shipping boxes.
I disagree. They ship a lot of coins from the show. Pretty sure mine was and they have historically done this in the past.
So wasn't the auction held the Wednesday- Sunday after the show ended at HA headquarters. The information page of the printed catalogue shows lot viewing in Chicago through April 30th and then in Dallas starting May 3. Just getting our facts straight.
HOWEVER, I still think comparing GC to Heritage isn't exactly fair, especially if the Heritage auction was connected to a show that had off-site viewing. You can't even start the clock until the coins have been shipped back to Heritage and that shipping won't take place until AFTER the show and related auction is over. If you win a coin on the 1st day of CNS, the coins won't even be on their way back to Dallas until after the last day of central states. They then need to be unpacked, etc.
But, again, you can choose to not do business with Heritage for any reason, even if it is just the color of their shipping boxes.
I disagree. They ship a lot of coins from the show. Pretty sure mine was and they have historically done this in the past.
So wasn't the auction held the Wednesday- Sunday after the show ended at HA headquarters. The information page of the printed catalogue shows lot viewing in Chicago through April 30th and then in Dallas starting May 3. Just getting our facts straight.
If it's CNS. The auction ran from May 4th through the 8th, if I'm not mistaken. Clock should have started in the 8th, I would think.
I could post multiple email chains that I have had recently with customer service about how slow shipping has been. The worst part is Heritage HQ is only 90 minutes from our house.
I will say when I was a legacy member and spending large sums of $ with them my lots were shipped very quickly.
Now, be it coins, currency, art or Silver... if I get shipped within 14 days of payment I consider that miraculous.
However, this has NOTHING to do with @MFeld He is a consummate professional and an invaluable resource.
Back in the day before he was at HA he reviewed so many coins for me....
He reviews less now, as my financial situation changed significantly but he answers so many questions and will review.
My issue is with HA shipping and definitely not Mark.
@MasonG said:
I would expect that Heritage uses a third-party company for insurance. Those insurance companies will typically require Express Mail shipment for coverage over a certain amount. It's not really possible to know what that insurance costs Heritage per shipment for insurance, but with that in mind...
The USPS retail cost to ship a single slab 2000 miles by Express Mail, insured for $5000 is.... $127.
Too much?
I just shipped a coin from CA to MA using UPS Ground and it was $17. When I ship packages at work, for a very large company, it is $4.50 overnight. Heritage is not paying retail shipping expenses nor retail insurance prices.
Was that a $7000 coin with insurance?
@MasonG never said it cost Heritage $127 to ship that package. I think his point is that they are "only" charging $40 to ship a package that has a retail cost of $127. So that is not exactly price gouging.
Is retail really relevant? I suppose a company can use their great rates and just pocket a ton of the difference, but for many things related to shipping, I think it’s more worthwhile to consider that next to no businesses charge retail. It’s extremely expensive compared to even the simplest business rates, and commerce built around shipping would look completely different if everyone charged even near retail rates.
@MasonG said:
I would expect that Heritage uses a third-party company for insurance. Those insurance companies will typically require Express Mail shipment for coverage over a certain amount. It's not really possible to know what that insurance costs Heritage per shipment for insurance, but with that in mind...
The USPS retail cost to ship a single slab 2000 miles by Express Mail, insured for $5000 is.... $127.
Too much?
edited to add... That $127 is if you pack it yourself. If you have a shipping department, you'd be paying them, too.
Well I know I’ve received packages without signature requirements that were valued far above the limit my insurance company has at which a signature is required. And even though I pay for a signature, if I shipped the same item my charge would have been significantly less.
You can compare to the Heritage Shipping Rates above
Let's compare.
Since some of the shipping details are not specified, it will be necessary to make some assumptions. The OP bought one coin for $7800, so we'll go with that.
Heritage doesn't note the shipping service but based on past experience with two different third party insurers, a coin of that value would need to be shipped USPS Express Mail or FedEx Overnight.
Heritage:
$3,000 + .............................................$32.55 + $1.75 per additional thousand
$1.57 first item
$32.55 + ($1.75 x 5 = $8.75) + $1.57 = $42.87
GC:
$1.00 per coin
USPS Express Mail 1-2 days $39.00
Fedex Overnight 1 day $37.00
Taking the lower of the two GC options, their shipping charge is $4.87 cheaper than Heritage. Not much more than a rounding error on a $7800 shipment, I'd say. What do you think?
Taking the lower of the two GC options, their shipping charge is $4.87 cheaper than Heritage. Not much more than a rounding error on a $7800 shipment, I'd say. What do you think?
I think that for a higher price I have to wait two to three weeks longer (at best) for the HA coin. And on top of the"rounding error", there is an extra $780 in buyer premium... Which should account for something? Shouldn't that higher buyers premium and the rounding error higher shipping offer a premium service? Not worse and slower service?
Edit: also, you chose the most expensive GC option. If I choose that option I get my coin on 2 days after auction end. I can pay $15 and get it 4 days after auction end. Those options regardless of expense are non-existent with HA with the higher prices.
Almost no one is going to stop doing business with HA due to their slower shipping.
I will go out on a limb to say that they ship more items in one auction than anyone else.
With that said., in all my years, .. I never shipped a coin to the incorrect address. I have to admit that I ship around 50 coins/yr so is a comparison valid (did I jinx myself?)?
I only ship registered so everyone waits 7-14 days before receiving a coin that I ship. I do get complaints.
It's possible that Each person that fails to bid on a coin I am interested in (Heritage auction) brings me somewhat closer to winning the coin. So... go ahead and rant and see if I care.
Taking the lower of the two GC options, their shipping charge is $4.87 cheaper than Heritage. Not much more than a rounding error on a $7800 shipment, I'd say. What do you think?
I think that for a higher price I have to wait two to three weeks longer for the HA coin. And on top of the"rounding error", there is an extra $780 in buyer premium... Which should account for something? Shouldn't that higher buyers premium and the rounding error higher shipping offer a premium service? Not worse and slower service?
What do any of your complaints have to do with what's charged for shipping? Jeeze Louise- you guys are like the people on Judge Judy who bring in as many unrelated arguments as you can think of, thinking that it helps you prove something or other. Here's a clue- it doesn't.
Stay on topic. My posts are about the shipping charge. If you want to argue something else, leave me out of it.
edited to add... Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service.
Almost no one is going to stop doing business with HA due to their slower shipping.
I will go out on a limb to say that they ship more items in one auction than anyone else.
With that said., in all my years, .. I never shipped a coin to the incorrect address. I have to admit that I ship around 50 coins/yr so is a comparison valid (did I jinx myself?)?
I only ship registered so everyone waits 7-14 days before receiving a coin that I ship. I do get complaints.
It's possible that Each person that fails to bid on a coin I am interested in (Heritage auction) brings me somewhat closer to winning the coin. So... go ahead and rant and see if I care.
I've shipped the wrong coin to the wrong person. It's happened 2x in about 75,000 shipments over 25 years. If you are skipping 50 items at a time, it can happen. You misread the stock number, for example.
@MasonG said:
Stay on topic. My posts are about the shipping charge. If you want to argue something else, leave me out of it.
edited to add... Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service.
Fair enough, I have issues with the total expense in addition to just the shipping expense but happy to discuss just the shipping expense.
It's an incorrect statement to say that they charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service. GC well deliver your coin 3 to 4 business days after auction end for roughly $15. HA Will deliver a coin 2 to 4 WEEKS after auction end for $40. That's not the same price or service.
Almost no one is going to stop doing business with HA due to their slower shipping.
I will go out on a limb to say that they ship more items in one auction than anyone else.
With that said., in all my years, .. I never shipped a coin to the incorrect address. I have to admit that I ship around 50 coins/yr so is a comparison valid (did I jinx myself?)?
I only ship registered so everyone waits 7-14 days before receiving a coin that I ship. I do get complaints.
It's possible that Each person that fails to bid on a coin I am interested in (Heritage auction) brings me somewhat closer to winning the coin. So... go ahead and rant and see if I care.
I've shipped the wrong coin to the wrong person. It's happened 2x in about 75,000 shipments over 25 years. If you are skipping 50 items at a time, it can happen. You misread the stock number, for example.
I ran into that same problem, and now I tag every item with 3 separate numbers that are also on the invoice/packing slip. I won't say it's impossible, but it's a lot harder to screw up checking three numbers versus just one. (All the numbers also have a specific use/value to me, so it's not as though I just made up random numbers for the heck of it).
@lermish said:
It's an incorrect statement to say that they charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service. GC well deliver your coin 3 to 4 business days after auction end for roughly $15. HA Will deliver a coin 2 to 4 WEEKS after auction end for $40. That's not the same price or service.
You're doing it again. My comments are about the cost of the service. THAT IS ALL. How quickly they process your order has nothing to do with that.
You can compare to the Heritage Shipping Rates above
Let's compare.
Since some of the shipping details are not specified, it will be necessary to make some assumptions. The OP bought one coin for $7800, so we'll go with that.
Heritage doesn't note the shipping service but based on past experience with two different third party insurers, a coin of that value would need to be shipped USPS Express Mail or FedEx Overnight.
Heritage:
$3,000 + .............................................$32.55 + $1.75 per additional thousand
$1.57 first item
$32.55 + ($1.75 x 5 = $8.75) + $1.57 = $42.87
GC:
$1.00 per coin
USPS Express Mail 1-2 days $39.00
Fedex Overnight 1 day $37.00
Taking the lower of the two GC options, their shipping charge is $4.87 cheaper than Heritage. Not much more than a rounding error on a $7800 shipment, I'd say. What do you think?
You're manipulating the numbers to prove your point here. Using the GC shipping table provided by @alaura22, GC allows a Priority shipment for packages value up to $10k at a cost of $15 + $0.50 per coin. So while Heritage requires you to pay $42.87 for Express Mail, GC will ship it to you for $15.50.
Now, you found a sweet spot where the prices are very close, and indeed, if you buy something at the low end of Heritage's Express-required price range ($3000 in value) GC will be more expensive. But GC doesn't require it until $10k, so let's look at a package worth $10k:
Heritage is $32.55 + $1.75*7 + $1.57 = $46.37
GC is $39 + $1 = $40 (or, use FedEx overnight instead and it's just $38)
And for GC, the cost is fixed, so if it's $20k, GC is still $40 (or $38), but Heritage is another $17.50, or $63.87.
As for what shipping method will be used? Express is a good guess for Heritage, but I'm not sure. I can say I've been surprised with $1000-$2000 packages being shipped Priority (fine) without a signature (questionable). I have no doubt they're following their insurance requirements, but since I know I need a signature way before then, this also leads me to believe they could have insurance that allows Priority Mail (which is much cheaper than Express) at higher limits than others would be allowed.
@MasonG said:
You're doing it again. My comments are about the cost of the service. THAT IS ALL. How quickly they process your order has nothing to do with that.
Then maybe we have a different definition of service. I absolutely think how quickly they process the order is a part of the service provided as shipping and handling. I find it very odd that if you are paying for a service the manner in which that service is delivered isn't considered as part of the expense. Is there inextricably linked. If I was buying a new dishwasher and Best buy delivered it in a week for $50 and Sears delivered it in a month for $100 and it's essentially the exact same dishwasher... Which is a better service? But to each their own.
@airplanenut said:
You're manipulating the numbers to prove your point here.
No, I'm not. I'm taking the value of the OP's coin and comparing shipping costs between GC and Heritage for the same level of service. I understand GC offers an option (Priority) that Heritage does not but that is not relevant to a comparison of comparable shipping services.
@airplanenut said:
As for what shipping method will be used?
I did a quick search and came up with several results that said "FedEx" for Heritage. I didn't find any that said "Priority Mail". Is that conclusive? Of course not.
Almost no one is going to stop doing business with HA due to their slower shipping.
I will go out on a limb to say that they ship more items in one auction than anyone else.
With that said., in all my years, .. I never shipped a coin to the incorrect address. I have to admit that I ship around 50 coins/yr so is a comparison valid (did I jinx myself?)?
I only ship registered so everyone waits 7-14 days before receiving a coin that I ship. I do get complaints.
It's possible that Each person that fails to bid on a coin I am interested in (Heritage auction) brings me somewhat closer to winning the coin. So... go ahead and rant and see if I care.
I've shipped the wrong coin to the wrong person. It's happened 2x in about 75,000 shipments over 25 years. If you are skipping 50 items at a time, it can happen. You misread the stock number, for example.
Absolutely understand.
WE ship 50 coins/yr so I would get rid of the whole shipping dept (and close the store) if mistakes are made.
Then I would rant at poor dealer customer service.
@MasonG said:
Stay on topic. My posts are about the shipping charge. If you want to argue something else, leave me out of it.
edited to add... Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service.
Fair enough, I have issues with the total expense in addition to just the shipping expense but happy to discuss just the shipping expense.
It's an incorrect statement to say that they charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service. GC well deliver your coin 3 to 4 business days after auction end for roughly $15. HA Will deliver a coin 2 to 4 WEEKS after auction end for $40. That's not the same price or service.
@MasonG said:
You're doing it again. My comments are about the cost of the service. THAT IS ALL. How quickly they process your order has nothing to do with that.
Then maybe we have a different definition of service.
Try focusing on the word "cost" and not "service". Does that help?
edited to add... I'm not talking about how long it takes to get your package in the mail or how pretty the wrapping paper is or how friendly the CS people are when you call them up and holler at them because you paid two days ago and where's your package? I'm talking about how many dollars you paid.
@airplanenut said:
You're manipulating the numbers to prove your point here.
No, I'm not. I'm taking the value of the OP's coin and comparing shipping costs between GC and Heritage for the same level of service. I understand GC offers an option (Priority) that Heritage does not but that is not relevant to a comparison of comparable shipping services.
Fine, but should we also factor in when the item will be shipped? You may be paying for a lesser shipping service with GC, but if it still arrives 2 weeks sooner, maybe the service doesn't really matter. The only reason I ship Priority instead of First Class when weight doesn't require it is because my insurance mandates it. At the very least, being able to offer buyers the option so they can weight cost and speed is a customer friendly option.
@airplanenut said:
Fine, but should we also factor in when the item will be shipped? You may be paying for a lesser shipping service with GC, but if it still arrives 2 weeks sooner, maybe the service doesn't really matter. The only reason I ship Priority instead of First Class when weight doesn't require it is because my insurance mandates it. At the very least, being able to offer buyers the option so they can weight cost and speed is a customer friendly option.
For someone who accused me of manipulating numbers to prove a point, you're sure going to a lot of effort to drag extraneous issues (when the item is shipped, shipping service options) into the conversation. As I have already posted (and will repost for your convenience):
I'm not talking about how long it takes to get your package in the mail or how pretty the wrapping paper is or how friendly the CS people are when you call them up and holler at them because you paid two days ago and where's your package? I'm talking about how many dollars you paid.
@MasonG said:
Expecting a company to provide a service for free is greedy, too.
Just sayin'.
Free? Because a 20% buyer fee and a 10%(?) seller fee on inventory they have zero financial stake in isn't enough.
If you don't want to pay a 20% buyer fee, reduce your bid by 20%. If you don't want to pay a 10% seller fee, consign your coins to an auction house that doesn't charge a seller fee. It shouldn't be necessary to have to explain this, but here we are.
I'm not talking about how long it takes to get your package in the mail or how pretty the wrapping paper is or how friendly the CS people are when you call them up and holler at them because you paid two days ago and where's your package? I'm talking about how many dollars you paid.
For one $7800 coin, with HA it is $41.12. For an equivalent shipping method with GC (leaving out the apparently irrelevant "service differences") it is $14.50. That's a $26.62 difference. That, to me, is not a rounding error.
When I was in high school and college, I had a very good friend. Call him my best friend (to this day). Well, this guy was late every single time we made plans. I mean every time. The kind of guy that will be late to his own funeral. Being a punctuality freak, this bothered me to no end. I mean it would raise my stress and anger level to the boiling point.
Finally one day, I decided to add 30 minutes to whatever time he told me he would arrive. Problem solved. I simply built in his behavior to my planning and the problem ceased to exist.
If i were Heritage, I would ask why has GC been so successful in grabbing market share in the coin auction business? I would think the answers would be important to make adjustments to their business model (where there is direct competition).
In the interim, a thread like this is something the VP of Customer Service should be tackling immediately.
@lermish said:
For one $7800 coin, with HA it is $41.12. For an equivalent shipping method with GC (leaving out the apparently irrelevant "service differences") it is $14.50. That's a $26.62 difference. That, to me, is not a rounding error.
The third party insurers I'm familiar with and which I'm referring to in this discussion require FedEx Overnight. FedEx 2 Day is not equivalent to Overnight and is not an option. Does GC have an insurance deal that works with 2 Day? Do they self-insure? I don't know. Do you? Doesn't matter anyway. The subject is the cost of comparable shipping, not whether variously priced shipping options are available. If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
@MasonG said:
Expecting a company to provide a service for free is greedy, too.
Just sayin'.
Free? Because a 20% buyer fee and a 10%(?) seller fee on inventory they have zero financial stake in isn't enough.
If you don't want to pay a 20% buyer fee, reduce your bid by 20%. If you don't want to pay a 10% seller fee, consign your coins to an auction house that doesn't charge a seller fee. It shouldn't be necessary to have to explain this, but here we are.
So I can put you down for "greedy", then?
Let's not be naive. The hammer price at HA is already 20% lower than what it would otherwise be. This come out of the seller's pocket whether it is explicit or not. Only an ignorant noob bids without factoring that in.
I wouldn't call a service "free" if they are already collecting 30%.
@Catbert said:
If i were Heritage, I would ask why has GC been so successful in grabbing market share in the coin auction business? I would think the answers would be important to make adjustments to their business model (where there is direct competition).
In the interim, a thread like this is something the VP of Customer Service should be tackling immediately.
If I were GC, I would also consider touting shipping time (from when it leaves GC) and shipping customer service as a competitive advantage.
"why wait weeks to receive your purchased lots from those mega auction houses when you can have them in days from us" (this is why I'm not in sales/marketing)
If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
Are you saying that HA sends out all of their packages via FedEx overnight? I certainly have done way less business there than the vast majority of people here and so I don't want to guess or assume anything... But my order didn't come via FedEx overnight. My guess would be that many of their orders do not go via FedEx overnight but it's just a guess. Perhaps someone else who doesn't have to guess can weigh in.
@lermish said:
Are you saying that HA sends out all of their packages via FedEx overnight?
Did you even read my previous comments?
"Since some of the shipping details are not specified, it will be necessary to make some assumptions."
"Heritage doesn't note the shipping service but based on past experience with two different third party insurers, a coin of that value would need to be shipped USPS Express Mail or FedEx Overnight."
"I did a quick search and came up with several results that said "FedEx" for Heritage. I didn't find any that said "Priority Mail". Is that conclusive? Of course not."
"Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service."
Shipping cost must be factored into your bidding strategy. $20 is a rounding error on a $7,800 coin. Waiting 2-3 weeks is frustrating, especially if you are a dealer acquiring for inventory. The cost of capital or opportunity cost has to be factored into the bidding strategy as well.
@J2035 said:
Shipping cost must be factored into your bidding strategy. $20 is a rounding error on a $7,800 coin. Waiting 2-3 weeks is frustrating, especially if you are a dealer acquiring for inventory. The cost of capital or opportunity cost has to be factored into the bidding strategy as well.
Or you could bid with a different company who takes the time to ship promptly and save yourself that money.
@J2035 said:
Shipping cost must be factored into your bidding strategy. $20 is a rounding error on a $7,800 coin. Waiting 2-3 weeks is frustrating, especially if you are a dealer acquiring for inventory. The cost of capital or opportunity cost has to be factored into the bidding strategy as well.
Or you could bid with a different company who takes the time to ship promptly and save yourself that money.
That works for widgets but the best coins are unique and difficult to find and you have to buy them where you find them.
@lermish said:
For one $7800 coin, with HA it is $41.12. For an equivalent shipping method with GC (leaving out the apparently irrelevant "service differences") it is $14.50. That's a $26.62 difference. That, to me, is not a rounding error.
The third party insurers I'm familiar with and which I'm referring to in this discussion require FedEx Overnight. FedEx 2 Day is not equivalent to Overnight and is not an option. Does GC have an insurance deal that works with 2 Day? Do they self-insure? I don't know. Do you? Doesn't matter anyway. The subject is the cost of comparable shipping, not whether variously priced shipping options are available. If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
Well, since GC is offering to ship a coin worth up to $10k without FedEx Overnight, I'm guessing their insurance doesn't require FedEx Overnight. My insurance policy has an entire page devoted to various shipping options, and a separate page covering details I separately negotiated with them. If I can get something that isn't boilerplate, I'm guessing companies that sell orders of magnitude more than I do can get modified terms for their insurance, too.
@J2035 said:
Shipping cost must be factored into your bidding strategy. $20 is a rounding error on a $7,800 coin. Waiting 2-3 weeks is frustrating, especially if you are a dealer acquiring for inventory. The cost of capital or opportunity cost has to be factored into the bidding strategy as well.
Or you could bid with a different company who takes the time to ship promptly and save yourself that money.
@lermish said:
For one $7800 coin, with HA it is $41.12. For an equivalent shipping method with GC (leaving out the apparently irrelevant "service differences") it is $14.50. That's a $26.62 difference. That, to me, is not a rounding error.
The third party insurers I'm familiar with and which I'm referring to in this discussion require FedEx Overnight. FedEx 2 Day is not equivalent to Overnight and is not an option. Does GC have an insurance deal that works with 2 Day? Do they self-insure? I don't know. Do you? Doesn't matter anyway. The subject is the cost of comparable shipping, not whether variously priced shipping options are available. If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
Well, since GC is offering to ship a coin worth up to $10k without FedEx Overnight, I'm guessing their insurance doesn't require FedEx Overnight. My insurance policy has an entire page devoted to various shipping options, and a separate page covering details I separately negotiated with them. If I can get something that isn't boilerplate, I'm guessing companies that sell orders of magnitude more than I do can get modified terms for their insurance, too.
Or they self insure. If I were Heritage or even GC, I would.
Comments
I fully agree with @Maywood. Shipping is a clever way for companies to make a quick profit and the customer never knows any different - until a company decides not do continue that practice.
In reading this thread, I came up with a few things:
The shipping times may make sense for a lot that was at lot viewing halfway across the country.
The shipping dept. may be understaffed and swamped by large auctions. I would say hire more people, but I could see a problem with that as there seems to be trouble hiring. Perhaps Heritage can pay their employees a little more or offer a sign on bonus. Don't know if that would work.
While the two above excuse how long it takes to ship a coin, it does bot fix one glaring issue. Heritage has angry customers all over the place and they are only making the problem worse by ignoring those customers. While Heritage might be a larger company than any of the other smaller auction houses, there's never an excuse to ignore your paying customers. This is not a good idea for any company, ever. Rather than having people go out and say how awesome your company is, you get results like this. Hundreds of mad customers telling people just how annoying their experience has been. That's just not good.
Coin Photographer.
Gouging may be going a little too far but yes, $40 is overpriced for a company of their size and scale that ALSO charges a 20% buyer's premium.
I won't speak for others but every comment I've made and I think the general tone of most is that given a very high BP% AND expensive shipping (compared to others) should entitle the buyers to very fast or best in class shipping and handling times. And, despite their scale, in person auctions, and highest overall cost, we are in fact getting very poor shipping and handling speed. That is where my issues lie. Highest cost and worst outcome. That seems incontrovertible to me.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
You can compare to the Heritage Shipping Rates above
GC Shipping Rates
USPS First Class ** 2-8 days $5.00 $0.50 $500.00
USPS Priority Mail 2-5 days $15.00 $0.50 $10,000.00
USPS Express Mail 1-2 days $39.00 $1.00 No Limit
Fedex 2-Day 2 days $14.00 $0.50 $25,000.00
Fedex Overnight 1 day $37.00 $1.00 No Limit
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Shipping costs aside, another clever way to add cost used by many companies is the "Handling Fee" which is added to every sale. It can best be described with one word: Greed.
I agree with that and it should help further explain the more general issue. There are a number of latencies associated with running auctions associated with and local to major coin shows. There might still be inefficiencies. Who knows? But the bottom line is that lot winners need to wait for coins and consignors need to wait for proceeds need to wait a bit longer than under more simplistic circumstances.
Expecting a company to provide a service for free is greedy, too.
Just sayin'.
So wasn't the auction held the Wednesday- Sunday after the show ended at HA headquarters. The information page of the printed catalogue shows lot viewing in Chicago through April 30th and then in Dallas starting May 3. Just getting our facts straight.
If it's CNS. The auction ran from May 4th through the 8th, if I'm not mistaken. Clock should have started in the 8th, I would think.
I could post multiple email chains that I have had recently with customer service about how slow shipping has been. The worst part is Heritage HQ is only 90 minutes from our house.
I will say when I was a legacy member and spending large sums of $ with them my lots were shipped very quickly.
Now, be it coins, currency, art or Silver... if I get shipped within 14 days of payment I consider that miraculous.
However, this has NOTHING to do with @MFeld He is a consummate professional and an invaluable resource.
Back in the day before he was at HA he reviewed so many coins for me....
He reviews less now, as my financial situation changed significantly but he answers so many questions and will review.
My issue is with HA shipping and definitely not Mark.
Is retail really relevant? I suppose a company can use their great rates and just pocket a ton of the difference, but for many things related to shipping, I think it’s more worthwhile to consider that next to no businesses charge retail. It’s extremely expensive compared to even the simplest business rates, and commerce built around shipping would look completely different if everyone charged even near retail rates.
Well I know I’ve received packages without signature requirements that were valued far above the limit my insurance company has at which a signature is required. And even though I pay for a signature, if I shipped the same item my charge would have been significantly less.
OK- forget retail. Let's talk about what the actual charges are.
Let's compare.
Since some of the shipping details are not specified, it will be necessary to make some assumptions. The OP bought one coin for $7800, so we'll go with that.
Heritage doesn't note the shipping service but based on past experience with two different third party insurers, a coin of that value would need to be shipped USPS Express Mail or FedEx Overnight.
Heritage:
$3,000 + .............................................$32.55 + $1.75 per additional thousand
$1.57 first item
$32.55 + ($1.75 x 5 = $8.75) + $1.57 = $42.87
GC:
$1.00 per coin
USPS Express Mail 1-2 days $39.00
Fedex Overnight 1 day $37.00
$39.00 + $1.00 = $40.00
or
$37.00 + $1.00 = $38.00
Taking the lower of the two GC options, their shipping charge is $4.87 cheaper than Heritage. Not much more than a rounding error on a $7800 shipment, I'd say. What do you think?
I think that for a higher price I have to wait two to three weeks longer (at best) for the HA coin. And on top of the"rounding error", there is an extra $780 in buyer premium... Which should account for something? Shouldn't that higher buyers premium and the rounding error higher shipping offer a premium service? Not worse and slower service?
Edit: also, you chose the most expensive GC option. If I choose that option I get my coin on 2 days after auction end. I can pay $15 and get it 4 days after auction end. Those options regardless of expense are non-existent with HA with the higher prices.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Some points....
Almost no one is going to stop doing business with HA due to their slower shipping.
I will go out on a limb to say that they ship more items in one auction than anyone else.
With that said., in all my years, .. I never shipped a coin to the incorrect address. I have to admit that I ship around 50 coins/yr so is a comparison valid (did I jinx myself?)?
I only ship registered so everyone waits 7-14 days before receiving a coin that I ship. I do get complaints.
It's possible that Each person that fails to bid on a coin I am interested in (Heritage auction) brings me somewhat closer to winning the coin. So... go ahead and rant and see if I care.
What do any of your complaints have to do with what's charged for shipping? Jeeze Louise- you guys are like the people on Judge Judy who bring in as many unrelated arguments as you can think of, thinking that it helps you prove something or other. Here's a clue- it doesn't.
Stay on topic. My posts are about the shipping charge. If you want to argue something else, leave me out of it.
edited to add... Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service.
I've shipped the wrong coin to the wrong person. It's happened 2x in about 75,000 shipments over 25 years. If you are skipping 50 items at a time, it can happen. You misread the stock number, for example.
Fair enough, I have issues with the total expense in addition to just the shipping expense but happy to discuss just the shipping expense.
It's an incorrect statement to say that they charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service. GC well deliver your coin 3 to 4 business days after auction end for roughly $15. HA Will deliver a coin 2 to 4 WEEKS after auction end for $40. That's not the same price or service.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I ran into that same problem, and now I tag every item with 3 separate numbers that are also on the invoice/packing slip. I won't say it's impossible, but it's a lot harder to screw up checking three numbers versus just one. (All the numbers also have a specific use/value to me, so it's not as though I just made up random numbers for the heck of it).
You're doing it again. My comments are about the cost of the service. THAT IS ALL. How quickly they process your order has nothing to do with that.
You're manipulating the numbers to prove your point here. Using the GC shipping table provided by @alaura22, GC allows a Priority shipment for packages value up to $10k at a cost of $15 + $0.50 per coin. So while Heritage requires you to pay $42.87 for Express Mail, GC will ship it to you for $15.50.
Now, you found a sweet spot where the prices are very close, and indeed, if you buy something at the low end of Heritage's Express-required price range ($3000 in value) GC will be more expensive. But GC doesn't require it until $10k, so let's look at a package worth $10k:
Heritage is $32.55 + $1.75*7 + $1.57 = $46.37
GC is $39 + $1 = $40 (or, use FedEx overnight instead and it's just $38)
And for GC, the cost is fixed, so if it's $20k, GC is still $40 (or $38), but Heritage is another $17.50, or $63.87.
As for what shipping method will be used? Express is a good guess for Heritage, but I'm not sure. I can say I've been surprised with $1000-$2000 packages being shipped Priority (fine) without a signature (questionable). I have no doubt they're following their insurance requirements, but since I know I need a signature way before then, this also leads me to believe they could have insurance that allows Priority Mail (which is much cheaper than Express) at higher limits than others would be allowed.
Then maybe we have a different definition of service. I absolutely think how quickly they process the order is a part of the service provided as shipping and handling. I find it very odd that if you are paying for a service the manner in which that service is delivered isn't considered as part of the expense. Is there inextricably linked. If I was buying a new dishwasher and Best buy delivered it in a week for $50 and Sears delivered it in a month for $100 and it's essentially the exact same dishwasher... Which is a better service? But to each their own.
Either way though, $40 is more than $15.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
No, I'm not. I'm taking the value of the OP's coin and comparing shipping costs between GC and Heritage for the same level of service. I understand GC offers an option (Priority) that Heritage does not but that is not relevant to a comparison of comparable shipping services.
I did a quick search and came up with several results that said "FedEx" for Heritage. I didn't find any that said "Priority Mail". Is that conclusive? Of course not.
In all fairness, the number of items in GC's weekly auctions O> @jmlanzaf said:
Absolutely understand.
WE ship 50 coins/yr so I would get rid of the whole shipping dept (and close the store) if mistakes are made.
Then I would rant at poor dealer customer service.
Not every HA coin takes weeks to arrive.
Try focusing on the word "cost" and not "service". Does that help?
edited to add... I'm not talking about how long it takes to get your package in the mail or how pretty the wrapping paper is or how friendly the CS people are when you call them up and holler at them because you paid two days ago and where's your package? I'm talking about how many dollars you paid.
You are correct, I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Fine, but should we also factor in when the item will be shipped? You may be paying for a lesser shipping service with GC, but if it still arrives 2 weeks sooner, maybe the service doesn't really matter. The only reason I ship Priority instead of First Class when weight doesn't require it is because my insurance mandates it. At the very least, being able to offer buyers the option so they can weight cost and speed is a customer friendly option.
Free? Because a 20% buyer fee and a 10%(?) seller fee on inventory they have zero financial stake in isn't enough.
For someone who accused me of manipulating numbers to prove a point, you're sure going to a lot of effort to drag extraneous issues (when the item is shipped, shipping service options) into the conversation. As I have already posted (and will repost for your convenience):
I'm not talking about how long it takes to get your package in the mail or how pretty the wrapping paper is or how friendly the CS people are when you call them up and holler at them because you paid two days ago and where's your package? I'm talking about how many dollars you paid.
If you don't want to pay a 20% buyer fee, reduce your bid by 20%. If you don't want to pay a 10% seller fee, consign your coins to an auction house that doesn't charge a seller fee. It shouldn't be necessary to have to explain this, but here we are.
So I can put you down for "greedy", then?
For one $7800 coin, with HA it is $41.12. For an equivalent shipping method with GC (leaving out the apparently irrelevant "service differences") it is $14.50. That's a $26.62 difference. That, to me, is not a rounding error.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
19 days and counting. No notifications. Two calls to Customer Service. 1 Email-no response.
I would be seething 😡🤬 I would refuse to do business with them ever again. That is just unacceptable in my book.
When I was in high school and college, I had a very good friend. Call him my best friend (to this day). Well, this guy was late every single time we made plans. I mean every time. The kind of guy that will be late to his own funeral. Being a punctuality freak, this bothered me to no end. I mean it would raise my stress and anger level to the boiling point.
Finally one day, I decided to add 30 minutes to whatever time he told me he would arrive. Problem solved. I simply built in his behavior to my planning and the problem ceased to exist.
Tim
If i were Heritage, I would ask why has GC been so successful in grabbing market share in the coin auction business? I would think the answers would be important to make adjustments to their business model (where there is direct competition).
In the interim, a thread like this is something the VP of Customer Service should be tackling immediately.
The third party insurers I'm familiar with and which I'm referring to in this discussion require FedEx Overnight. FedEx 2 Day is not equivalent to Overnight and is not an option. Does GC have an insurance deal that works with 2 Day? Do they self-insure? I don't know. Do you? Doesn't matter anyway. The subject is the cost of comparable shipping, not whether variously priced shipping options are available. If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
Let's not be naive. The hammer price at HA is already 20% lower than what it would otherwise be. This come out of the seller's pocket whether it is explicit or not. Only an ignorant noob bids without factoring that in.
I wouldn't call a service "free" if they are already collecting 30%.
If I were GC, I would also consider touting shipping time (from when it leaves GC) and shipping customer service as a competitive advantage.
"why wait weeks to receive your purchased lots from those mega auction houses when you can have them in days from us" (this is why I'm not in sales/marketing)
If you're comparing the shipping charges of two companies, you need to compare the same thing- Overnight with Overnight. Check GC's rates on that and let me know how close to $14.50 it is.
Are you saying that HA sends out all of their packages via FedEx overnight? I certainly have done way less business there than the vast majority of people here and so I don't want to guess or assume anything... But my order didn't come via FedEx overnight. My guess would be that many of their orders do not go via FedEx overnight but it's just a guess. Perhaps someone else who doesn't have to guess can weigh in.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Ground shipping that goes out the day after an auction is always faster than overnight shipping that goes out 3 weeks after an auction.
Did you even read my previous comments?
"Since some of the shipping details are not specified, it will be necessary to make some assumptions."
"Heritage doesn't note the shipping service but based on past experience with two different third party insurers, a coin of that value would need to be shipped USPS Express Mail or FedEx Overnight."
"I did a quick search and came up with several results that said "FedEx" for Heritage. I didn't find any that said "Priority Mail". Is that conclusive? Of course not."
"Bottom line- GC and Heritage charge essentially the same amount for the same shipping service."
Shipping cost must be factored into your bidding strategy. $20 is a rounding error on a $7,800 coin. Waiting 2-3 weeks is frustrating, especially if you are a dealer acquiring for inventory. The cost of capital or opportunity cost has to be factored into the bidding strategy as well.
Or you could bid with a different company who takes the time to ship promptly and save yourself that money.
Coin Photographer.
That works for widgets but the best coins are unique and difficult to find and you have to buy them where you find them.
I thought that we established that GC was $26.62 cheaper for a faster service, right?
Coin Photographer.
Are coin collectors the most impatient people on earth ?
Well, since GC is offering to ship a coin worth up to $10k without FedEx Overnight, I'm guessing their insurance doesn't require FedEx Overnight. My insurance policy has an entire page devoted to various shipping options, and a separate page covering details I separately negotiated with them. If I can get something that isn't boilerplate, I'm guessing companies that sell orders of magnitude more than I do can get modified terms for their insurance, too.
That assumes that all coins are widgets.
No
Yes. That's why "hole fillers" exist.
Or they self insure. If I were Heritage or even GC, I would.