Question from New Member
Ryan3
Posts: 49 ✭
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forums but was told that this was a great site for coin info/collectors. I've been reading some threads/posts just trying to get a little familiar with it and def love the site. Looks like there is a lot of knowledge and info here so that's awesome to see! I've collected a little bit of everything over the years but my dad is a HUGE coin guy. I've only collected a few coins here and there over the years and recently just sold a few as well. I'm trying to not make my first post a massive paragraph but wanted to get some thoughts on one of the coins that I have.
I have a 1909 S VDB penny and I've seen some threads here lately with people discovering some fakes etc etc. Not that people were selling them on purpose, but some keen eyes that were able to tell they were fake. I've considered selling mine but had a few questions I was hoping to get some feedback/opinions on.
The 1909 S VDB that I have has been cleaned in some capacity. With a coin like this that has been "faked" some much, is it better to get it authenticated/graded before attempting to sell?
What's the best way(s) to take pictures of your coins? Any specific tips for doing so? I have a great camera phone so that's my main way of doing it.
I'm not sure how to post pictures or anything yet but I have a few coin pictures in my Flickr account. I can link it to show the penny if anyone wants to see.
Sorry for my first post being so long!
Comments
Welcome to the forum. This thread may help with the photo question. You will need someone else to help with the Lincoln Cent question.
Photography thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1001127/coin-photography-setup
Once you are an approved member you will be able to post pictures. This has been taking up to two weeks recently.
Once you are approved, post pictures of the coin and it’s likely we can tell you if it’s genuine or fake.
Also, welcome!
Coin Photographer.
Howdy and welcome. Certified key dates are typically more liquid and sell for more money than raw examples.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Heavymetal - Thanks for the welcome and for sharing the link! Will def look it over. I'm sure I can learn a few things there.
FlyingAl - Thank you for the welcome! I know that it's real but I guess my concern was selling it without being authenticated/graded when there are so many fakes out there. Just seeing a few posts on this site recently make me think of it more. I've seen some that aren't in PCGS ,NGC, etc cases that have sold on Ebay but wasn't sure what's ideal.
If I can't post pictures until I'm approved, am I able to share a link to my Flickr account that has some?
TomB- Thank you so much for the welcome! Yeah I've collected/sold graded sports cards so figured it was similar.
There are four mint mark positions on real s vdb's. Illustrations are found on threads in the archives. It is a relatively easy coin to authenticate.
Sending the coin into PCGS to be graded will probably set you back $50 plus the wait time.
Personally I don't click on links so I would never see your pics. The keys IMHO to a good simple photo graph is steadiness of the camera and good diffused lighting. No flash. Archives have hundreds of threads from experts.
Good luck. Use the SEARCH function.
Thank you Streeter for the reply and the info as well. Much appreciated.
Welcome. Look forward to seeing your 1909-S VDB.
Pocket Change Inspector
Try looking up some of the threads that focus on the 1909-S VDB. Many of them picture the varieties that are real and also show many of the fakes. Well struck fakes of the 1909-S VDB have been around for many decades so one having been purchased long ago is no insurance against it being fake. If you believe yours is real you should have it certified by a major TPG even if it is cleaned. Slabbed 1909-S VDB Lincolns are easy to sell even if they are "details", as in cleaned, coins.
Stingray63- Thank you for the welcome and sounds good!
291fifth - I completely understand what you are saying and will def look at some of those threads too. I've purchased graded coins before (locally) but just never sent any in myself. I've done it with sports cards though. I know of PCGS and NGC but wasn't sure what seems to be the most preferred.
Welcome to the forum!
You can share photos via a link until you are an approved member, some will click on it, some won't.
Welcome, Once you've been granted the ability to post pictures i can all but certainly guarantee this crowd will validate yours as original or give you the bad news like a mouth full of bad medicine. Either way the knowledgeable folks here will give you the answer and why. I'm not a Lincoln expert but there are plenty of distinct markers for those fakes you fear... the pictures will tell.
Mark
@Ryan3
You can post some photos but not all sites, locations will work.
Copy the photo or image address (I guess this will be from your flickr).
Then click the top far right box and it will say Image URL and paste the image address.
Then hit enter.
If it loads it into the large comment box it has probably worked. Use Preview button to check.
If it does nothing, then it probably won't work from that site location.
Yes you can copy a link into the comment box. Some may click and use it and others not.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
ifthevamzarockin- Thank you for the welcome and comment as well! Will do that! I completely understand that some people prefer to not click a link or picture. I'm just a new guy that's trying to get some advice and share coin pictures.
mark_dak - Thank you for the welcome! From what I've seen so far, the site has lots of great members here!
lilolme - Thanks for the info and I will try that out. I have several pictures that I can show but also working on the "best" way to take the photos.
Just got back home now so let me see if my flickr link or photo will work.
lilolme - When it loads into the comment box, is it supposed to be the actual coin photo or just the coded link itself?
I'm not sure if I was going it right or not so that's why I'm asking.
Either way, here is the link to my flickr account. Just started putting some coin pictures in there but you can see I have cards and such as well.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147296712@N06/with/52063237501/
Here are the 4 mintmarks.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Good photos & all look genuine.
Thank you and I appreciate you taking a look. I'm going to see which pictures work best as I'm not used to taking many photos of coins.
jesbroken - Thank you for adding those pictures for me. That's really helpful!
@Ryan3
This is the images of your coin, I'm still looking over the details and cropping some images.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Is it usually better to have pictures of a coin inside the holder and also the coin by itself? Or does it really matter for most?
Just wasn't sure if the plastic film affects anything when taking pictures. I thought it still looked fine but I've seen some pictures on here that are super close up. Obviously if it's in a graded holder that's nice, it doesn't matter.
Mark - Also thank you for adding the pictures like that for me. Appreciate it.
Mint mark shape and position look fine, I’m not seeing any red flags so it looks genuine to me. It could be cleaned, I can’t tell from the pictures for sure.
Coin Photographer.
Seeing how your coin is in what's call a "Flip" and to help resolve some image details it would be better to take some pictures of it out of the flip and at this point work on two key areas.
(1) good enough details to clearly make out the mint mark!
(2) the designer's initials, they could be a problem there, but it could just the plastic!
Its not a big deal to handle the coin outside the flip, I would just wash my hands real good, extract the staples and let it slip out onto a medium gray mat or cloth, handle it as much as possible by its edges (with clean fingers) take the pictures in good light, then just put the coin back into the flip.
I'm working on some image comparisons with known genuine ones, so it would help if we could see it outside the flip.
We here will do what we can for sure, now sometimes it might take some debating among us but if that happens just get you some popcorn and a big drink and follow along.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
FlyingAl - I will get some more pictures as I've just been trying to practice taking pictures of stuff. Everything I have has been in storage for a long time so only recently started getting stuff out. I think I took a picture of 4 coins the other day lol.
Thank you so much for the info Mark. I wasn't expecting so many comments so I truly appreciate everyone!
I will get a gray mat/cloth and take it out of the coin sleeve and take some more pictures.
Hopefully I can get some more images that help in those areas that you mentioned.
PM Sent
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Ryan
You are getting a lot of quality advice from some of the best and knowable people on this board
Congrats on your coin, it looks great!
Cheers
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
@Ryan3
The reason I suggested the gray for a background because of the light balance,
A white or very dark background will more negatively effect the overall exposure of the images.
If you have to handhold the camera, set a small box or jug upto rest your wrist on to stabilize the camera better, if the camera has a timer use it rather than pushing a button that causes motion.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Thank you so much Alaura22. I really do appreciate the comments and warm welcomes as well. I'm starting to see why people recommended this site for coins lol
I was using my Iphone 13 Pro Max to take the photos that you currently see. Now, I wasn't sure the best way to take them based on the background/natural lighting/ etc . I was just trying to do my best to show the most detail without it looking bad. I was going to take a picture of the edges of the coin but kinda hard to get a complete view of that. Def no issues there though.
Keep mind that these people will not hold back if something isn't right about a coin, so they sometimes bare BAD NEWS, and it may be rather blunt
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
LOL I hear ya! I appreciate everyone's thoughts/opinions/comments on anything that I ask. I'm def not new to the forums, just this one! Being a new person to the forum , it's been a nice welcome!
Feel very blessed!
Some newbies here crash land, like me, its not pretty
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@Ryan3... Welcome aboard. That cent does appear to be genuine. I did notice slight rim damage on the reverse - but I do not think it will make it go details. Good luck, Cheers, RickO
Great first post!
Nice coin, this is the place to get most answers you're looking for.
Mark
Ricko - Thank you for the welcome! Yeah I actually just took it out of the holder to take additional pictures. It's been a while since it's been out!
erwindoc - Thank you! Appreciate all of the responses and welcomes!
mark_dak - Thank you! I truly appreciate the responses!
While I had a few quick minutes, I added some additional pictures to my flickr account I posted above. Hopefully a few of them turned out well. I've got a busy day but will def be back around later! Hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend!
Just saw the question. After pasting into the Image URL box and hitting Enter, if it loads into the comment box it will be a line of text. You can check the image by using the Preview button to see how the image will be when posted. You can then use the Edit to go back to the other comment box view.
With your Flickr page I was not able to get an image address, only a copy link. It does not work (I tried it). The ones that have worked were a copy of Image address (but not all of these work)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Welcome aboard. Thats a decent looking cent.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Yeah I wasn't sure if I was even using the correct code from flickr that would show the photo. I think it gave me a few options so I could try the others. I figured it may be a flickr thing where it doesn't work like you said!
Thank you for the welcome and comment Gumby. Glad to be here!
Well, I messed up and uploaded the images wrong, did an edit, left one out, another edit and now I can't fix it, I'll see if the system will even let me do another post with the images I wanted.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Okay, if you do what I call rapid fire back to back edits of say 3 or so the comment just vanishes, I got a message stated my comment would appear later, they never do.
Okay, where was I?
Here is where ones like this get down to, its sort-a like a opinion poll, I like to get 100% on the same side of the fence, then its certain as to the conclusion, I for sure don't know the outcome!
I'm going to start here, I zoomed these two images to compare details of the designers initials.
I whats marked with a red line is the flat tops of the "D" & the "B"
The point to what looks like a tail coming up to complete the letter vs a solid from on the known genuine one.
No mark on these differences, I couldn't do it without interfering with the details.
Notice the upper loop (opening) of the "B" on the one on the right, see how its round vs the left.
Lastly, the period following the "V" its lower to the V than the one on the right.
Could the designer's initials have been added to this coin?
Opinions Please!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The more I look at this coin and the more I work with these images I'm leaning towards "Altered"
The B on the members coin or the upper part of the loop forms the slanted cross bar, then the bottom loop rolls around and comes up in a tail to meet in, so the letter itself looks formed differently, and then those flat tops?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@MarkW63 The reverse of the coin appears to have some minor strike doubling.
I was in the middle of sending you a PM when you posted your comment
I didn't need to send it seeing how you showed up.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
So this is not my thing at all but kind of like looking for stuff (sometimes).
This one looks more like the OP - I think but....???
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I see the strike doubling as well, and if that's altered that's really well done. Here's a graded 1909-S VDB with a flat top on both the D and B from coin facts:
Given that this matches, I vote XF Details Cleaned, genuine in my opinion.
Coin Photographer.
Hey Mark! First off as I said before, I appreciate everyone's comments,opinions, etc etc! I also appreciate you and anyone else taking the time to look at everything. I'm sure there are people that could have an opinion on both sides but I wasn't questioning whether my coin is real or not. However, I think it's probably best to send it to a grading company but I've never sent a coin in before. This coin has been in a safe for many years and only recently gotten it out. If that's what is best, I think it's def worth doing!
The last picture you provided above (showing mine on left) , the image there def makes it look like the letters have a flat top.
However, I don't know if it's the picture, angle, or just light hitting it when i took the picture. You can see in other examples in my flickr - "penny7 and penny10" are good ones that the letters don't have a flat top. Just me looking at the coin in person I can see it.
@Ryan3 - This is a coin that you likely will not get a good price without it being certified. The advice when it comes to key date highly counterfeited coins is get it certified before you sell. Many collectors won't buy such a coin without the security of a TPG's guarantee, so I'd recommend sending it in if you intend to sell. If not, then you can decide.
Coin Photographer.
This coin came from a huge collection many years ago and while it's been so long ago, the only thing that I remember was it had been cleaned in some capacity. Since I don't know coins as well, that was always confusing to me as I didn't know if coin cleaning was normal. I read somewhere that coin companies offer restoration services so I thought maybe this is the norm.
Since I've never sent a coin to be graded, I wasn't sure if you are supposed to tell them if you think it's been cleaned. I assume most of the top companies will know all of that when grading the coin. While I've seen many coins graded saying "cleaned" , I didn't know how much value is affected with that or if it's a preference thing.
Sorry I'm rambling but hopefully that makes sense!