I buy already slabbed coins and don't worry about it. There are so many under graded slabs out there that I don't need to worry about anything but upgrades where it is of value.
@ejguru said:
It's almost like they are on a "no 9 or 10" policy. For the slight flaws that may have still gotten 8's or 7's in years past, you'll see 4's to 6's. For the high end cards that should be 9 and possibly 10 all day long, it's the 8 and occasional 7. I've never cracked so many 7's and 8's to set aside for resubmission. Crazy times.
My last submission, returned on May 2nd, was for seven 1997 cards.
Carefully examined before sending them off, I received four 9's and three 10's.
@PaulMaul said:
I actually don’t feel like vintage cards are being graded more harshly than they used to. The recently graded PSA 9s I see on eBay seem to have more corner wear than they used to. It seems to be more modern cards that are being hammered.
You are in the minority with that opinion; but it's what your eyes are telling you. Can't argue with your own opinion. I simply do not agree with you at all.
I was once the owner of the #1 Harmon Killebrew Master set and I have quite a few items that I would like to get graded.
I am not going to spend the amount of money it would take to get them graded. I also don't agree with several decisions that PSA has made excluding several of my "best" items items from the Master set.
I had a perfectly nice collection before I found out about the Registry, and had a lot of fun sending in my cards, it's not fun anymore, so I will continue to collect and enjoy the hobby without going broke submitting items that (mostly) aren't worth the grading fees.
The registry will probably not die, but it will become the domain of the wealthy, much like everything else in this country that is ruled by the almighty dollar.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@PaulMaul said:
I actually don’t feel like vintage cards are being graded more harshly than they used to. The recently graded PSA 9s I see on eBay seem to have more corner wear than they used to. It seems to be more modern cards that are being hammered.
I think it all depends on whether you get an experienced grader or not. I've seen some real dogs recently graded and given high grades but that's the exception, not the rule. If you get a grader experienced in vintage, the results will probably be typical of pre-pandemic standards. If you get a new grader that's handling mostly modern, you likely will get hammered but you also could get gift grades galore with a few of those graders. At least that's my theory.
@PaulMaul said:
I actually don’t feel like vintage cards are being graded more harshly than they used to. The recently graded PSA 9s I see on eBay seem to have more corner wear than they used to. It seems to be more modern cards that are being hammered.
I think it all depends on whether you get an experienced grader or not. I've seen some real dogs recently graded and given high grades but that's the exception, not the rule. If you get a grader experienced in vintage, the results will probably be typical of pre-pandemic standards. If you get a new grader that's handling mostly modern, you likely will get hammered but you also could get gift grades galore with a few of those graders. At least that's my theory.
What you wrote seems completely reasonable except for PSA has clearly stated on a number of occasions that they have graders for each era. Do we think that vintage do not go to vintage graders? It seems vintage is going to the 19 year old graders who grade 2021 Trout and Morant cards.
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe that cards are graded by the same standard whether or not they are star RC or just a common? It sure seems to me based on my recent orders that it's much tougher to get a higher grade on a valuable card. Of course that's just my opinion.
@bswhiten said:
The PSA registry isn’t going anywhere. It is built for collectors and no other TPG can touch them.
Maybe. But the BGS does fairly well with subs of ultra-modern, for whatever reason. I don’t think BGS is so far behind that they couldn’t catch up or surpass PSA. PSA offering $30 “value” subs will open the door for others.
BGS and SGC might do well with modern subs, but both of their set registries are garbage imo. The high cost of grading only put a pause on the registry. I don't know anyone that has left in the sets that I pc.
@1959 said:
A Mantle , Aaron, Jordan, Ruth , etc. is going to be looked at much, much, closer and graded harsher than commons. always been that way.
I tend to agree although I'm not sure it should be that way. A card should be graded on the merits of the card not on whose picture is on the card. If this is in fact true, it kind makes the whole idea of grading cards questionable.
If a company is going to give a collector a card that in a 7 may be worth $1000 . Or an 8 that makes it a 10,000 or 9 that makes it worth 100,000 you can bet that as a business , those cards are going to be inspected closer than a common card worth 10.00 or 50.00'. Its a business now, not a hobby . Sad , but true.
The rise of prices may or may not contribute to PSA's demise, however I think their policies are much more concerning.
For reference, I am 18 years old now, and I have collected PSA graded cards for probably 5.5 years or so. I was around 13 when I called PSA "incompetent retards", and my account has been blocked since. I have tried to apologize many times since as it is a lapse in judgment, but it seems that the recognition of that is not their M.O. I cannot even log into the registry now, so I assume my account is shadow banned. When I try to contact them about this, they send me the same copy and pasted email every time. I know it is copy and pasted because there is actually an identical spelling error in both, and they are worded the exact same way. They seem to be just as immature as I was.
If this is how they treat their consumer base (of whom has genuine criticism), then they should not expect rewards. It is understandable for me to get warned for that moronic statement that I made, but there was a genuine reason for it. (They took far longer to transfer a sticker that I own into my registry that I own than they estimated on their website.) Basically, I criticized their customer service at the end of the day.
@1959 said:
If a company is going to give a collector a card that in a 7 may be worth $1000 . Or an 8 that makes it a 10,000 or 9 that makes it worth 100,000 you can bet that as a business , those cards are going to be inspected closer than a common card worth 10.00 or 50.00'. Its a business now, not a hobby . Sad , but true.
I have no problem with a company inspecting a card closely, I'm just say a PSA 7 or whatever should be handed out based on the same merits of the card being graded not the value of the card.
Mantle is always going to looked at , inspected, given more time or whatever than any common card. Regardless of money involved. A Mantle PSA 3 may be worth less than a (lets say) a PSA Snider 7 , but it will be looked at much more carefully.
There are many things they can do to make the user experience of the registry better. Until nay improvements are made they need to be better/quicker in adding sets and managing slot requests
Looking for a Glen Rice Inkredible and Alex Rodriguez cards
@1959 said:
Mantle is always going to looked at , inspected, given more time or whatever than any common card. Regardless of money involved. A Mantle PSA 3 may be worth less than a (lets say) a PSA Snider 7 , but it will be looked at much more carefully.
I totally agree with what you are saying. I questioning whether or not that it should be that way. I guess if in the future you have AI doing the grading that should stop. A PSA 7 card should be graded as a PSA 7 card no matter who's picture is on the card.
I think now PSA is looking extra carefully for flaws. And with AI all cards are graded harsher . And yes , all should be graded the same , but because of value and forgery some are always going to be looked at more carefully. Nobody forges Joe Blow but Jordan, yes. so Jordan is going to get more attention . But, SHOULD it? Probably not in a perfect world, but it is in this one.
It’s not rocket science - just set a special price for any sub that is from a private person ( not a submission company) that contains more than 50 different cards from the same set - nobody but a registry collector would do that. Or perhaps 100 cards allowing 2 of each so psa can kill one🙂…
It is impossible to build a graded set through submissions anymore with the prices, particularly vintage. I have been working on grading out complete 1954, 1956, 1959, 1960 and 1961 Topps baseball sets that I inherited from my father in-law many years ago. Used to be I could submit a couple hundred at $4/card (min 100 cards) in bulk pricing. That deal went away long ago, so waited for the quarterly specials, prices eventually doubled at least but still I'd do $8 or $10/card for the commons to get them done, but that was about it. Those prices are long gone now and it's cheaper to search out graded lots on ebay. That's really the only strategy that makes sense for set-building now. Especially since I don't care too much about the common grades, so long as they are nice looking, PSA 2 or 3 are good enough commons for my sets, and they can be found for far less than the grading costs - even though most of my raw cards would grade much higher, don't really care about that for the commons, it isn't worth the investment That may change as more people like me haven't been submitting anymore and the available inventory of graded vintage commons dries up. It also kills the raw vintage market, since I'm now buying graded cards that I already have raw, but I can't sell the raw duplicates to cover the cost because no one can do anything with them. There aren't many raw collectors left.
There's no doubt some of the larger dealers have special arrangements with PSA for cheaper bulk submissions. There's no way they could make money on consignment purchases of vintage raw sets otherwise, even with some high grade stars thrown in. But even to that end, they aren't offering what they used to. I took one of my duplicate 1956 Topps sets to a couple shops, they basically offered me lowball offers on what the net graded value of the stars would be to them, basically I'd be giving away the other 90% of the set commons for free. It's the opposite of how vintage collectibles should work. The offers I had for a complete 1956 ungraded set 20 years ago, for instance, were much higher than I've gotten today. Dealers aren't stupid, and only care what they will get in return for the max star grades in the set, and there just aren't any vintage collectors around anymore interested in owning a complete, ungraded set, for those prices.
PSA is well aware of the market, there's a lot of inventory for set builders out there on ebay and once that dries up, people like me will have no choice to pay for submissions again at the high prices. As the supply continues to shrink (because nobody can submit commons anymore), prices for the commons will increase, which will make the submission costs seem reasonable.
I just completed a couple of high grade raw vintage football sets over the last few years - there most definitely are vintage collectors around interested in owning complete, ungraded sets!
If you go to a big card show like the National, Philly, Chantilly, etc. you'll see there are lots of collectors out there who still buy raw vintage and build sets. You might stand for a half an hour waiting for a seat to dig through boxes at some of these booths while watching others go through their checklists. If you follow Greg Morris' auctions on eBay you'll see that there are lots of folks paying up for quality raw vintage cards from his auctions. While I'm sure some of those cards get submitted for grading, I know the vast majority of cards I've purchased from him are in my raw vintage sets sitting in Card Saver 1's.
I think this whole thing is a bit overblown frankly. Saying things like "it's impossible to build a graded set through submissions" just isn't true. It might be true that it would cost more than you're willing to pay, but that's not the same thing as impossible. Folks are frustrated that they don't currently have access to grading that was as cheap as it was in the past, but that doesn't mean it'll always be that way going forward. PSA has the capacity to grade nearly one million cards a month. There are many, many posts on here saying we'd never see $20 grading again... At least until PSA's current $18 / card special.
The hobby goes through peaks and valleys - we just went through an amazing, almost unimaginable (since no grading company was prepared for it) increase in submissions and we're now going through the process of bringing those prices back down to meet demand. This too shall pass and I'll be very surprised if you don't see $10 grading again (maybe $8), even if only via specials.
I believe it will die. PSA does not take care of their customers needs any longer and they don't grade cards for a reasonable price. Not sure how the SR can survive.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
The SR can survive if PSA takes care of their customers needs and starts to grade cards (consistently and transparently) for a reasonable price (hey, that would make a good mission statement).
Once the new people that jumped into the grading frenzy created by the Covid lockdown
and the craziness surrounding the fighting over retail product died down , things are starting
to return to normal ! Reality is setting in and collectors and flippers are not getting rich playing
the grading game with the stricter ???? grading by the G.O.D.'s ! Plus the 15 to 16 months to
get your cards back , a lot of collectors and flippers have seen the ships sail out already !
Personally , I have been waiting over 15 months to get a 23 card submission back .......currrently
in grading for the past two months ! Not that I'm complaining , as I have no desire to sell these
cards since they are for my PC , BUT STILL , the longer I wait the more I start to lose interest in
the Registry ! At the current grading prices of $30.00/card , its just not economically sound to submit
cards unless they wound give me all Psa 10's
Robbie
Collect 1964 Topps Baseball 1963 Fleer Lou Brock Master Set
I believe that once the new locations are opened and fully staffed, PSA will drop their prices to $10 - $15 a card with somewhat reasonable turnaround times. They will likely need to do that to keep the cards flowing in.
Once again the set registry isn't going to die. A 1975 top ranked set is sitting at $150k in MH's auction and isn't over yet. Plus add 20% on top of that if that's the final bid amount. It's not practical to build most sets through your own submissions at the moment but I can't see the prices staying here long term. Nat has already stated that there will be registry friendly specials returning once the backlog is worked down. It won't be $4. It probably won't even be $8. But it won't be $20 either. If anyone wants to sell their vintage, high grade registry sets, I might be interested.
The registry is a screen full of names and sets. It can live forever as long as PSA doesn't delete it. New submissions to fill those sets.... we shall see. I suggest people send in all of their 1971 Topps baseball as it's the most fairly graded set on the registry. You always get very high grades. 8's and 9's are plentiful. Almost everyone who submits 71's are very delighted with the results. It's simply a wonderful experience all around.
@1959 said:
I agree Mickey71, My aunt Jenny just opened two boxes of 71's and she says they are all perfect. I'll see if I can get her to post some pictures.
I'm glad you saw the humor in my statement about 1971's.
I'm collecting to build sets for vintage hockey. Feels like a dog fight to get those quality 9s and 10s.
When I look at the top registry sets for my favorite years, I feel like a kid peering in from outside a store window.
I recently sold PSA registry sets through Heritage Auctions. I collected these sets over a period of twenty years. There were 16 complete sets of Topps baseball cards from 1952 through 1967. If you added the value of every card in the 16 sets using VCP average price the total value was $2,100,000. At Heritages 8/28/22 Platinum Auction, these sets sold for $2,445,000 or over 16% above VCP average value. From these auction results, I would conclude that there is still a lot of interest in PSA registry sets.
@sppotbaseballsets said:
I recently sold PSA registry sets through Heritage Auctions. I collected these sets over a period of twenty years. There were 16 complete sets of Topps baseball cards from 1952 through 1967. If you added the value of every card in the 16 sets using VCP average price the total value was $2,100,000. At Heritages 8/28/22 Platinum Auction, these sets sold for $2,445,000 or over 16% above VCP average value. From these auction results, I would conclude that there is still a lot of interest in PSA registry sets.
I watched your sets with interest because I have a similar run of sets. I agree that the results were pretty strong, certain years more than others.
Also, it goes without saying that was very generous of you to donate all the proceeds from the sets.
I would like to see a "Registry Special" where if you submitted an item that qualified, but was not yet in your players Master set, PSA would charge around $10.00.
This would be a nice thing for player collectors.
Secondly, since PSA charges more for higher value cards a special price could be given to people subbing commons missing from their complete sets.
Just a couple of random thoughts that will never happen.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I think an easy solution would be for PSA to lower the grading costs for common cards and offer a discount for
current members of the set registry. The grading discount fees would only apply for commons that are needed to "fill" or "upgrade" currently registered sets. Key card rookies or higher valued cards would not be eligible for the pricing discount. I think they need to do something soon, as graded commons for vintage sets are getting harder and harder to find.
@sppotbaseballsets said:
I recently sold PSA registry sets through Heritage Auctions. I collected these sets over a period of twenty years. There were 16 complete sets of Topps baseball cards from 1952 through 1967. If you added the value of every card in the 16 sets using VCP average price the total value was $2,100,000. At Heritages 8/28/22 Platinum Auction, these sets sold for $2,445,000 or over 16% above VCP average value. From these auction results, I would conclude that there is still a lot of interest in PSA registry sets.
Your sets were amazing. I'd love to hear about how you amassed such an incredible collection.
I don't think that it is going to die. Hopefully we will continue to see some drops in grading prices. Once it makes sense to grade the lower value cards in the registry, it will start to come back. Would like to see it at around $10.00, even it is only for some monthly specials.
There is a new set that I happened to have a couple cards of. I decided to test the Registry waters and started my first set. A couple months later, another 4 people have started the set. On YouTube, there is a lot of content with 25 to 100 PSA graded cards being shared with the world. If PSA can capitalize on this new group of collectors from the pandemic to assist in expanding their collection, the registry will carry on strong. Registry specials will be key as mentioned.
In response to BJY 83, in 2002 I sold a large group of raw Topps sets and used the proceeds to collect Topps PSA graded sets from 1952 to 1967. I started collecting as follows: 1952 PSA 3 and 1953 to 1967 PSA 7. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 5, 1953 to 1959 PSA 7 and 8, and 1960 to 1967 PSA 8. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 7, 1953 to 1955 plus 1958 and 1962 PSA 8, and 1956 to 1967 (excluding 1958 and 1962) PSA 8 and 9. From 1952 to 1967 Topps sets, when cumulating each year's rating, the collection ranked #1 on the set registry for those 16 years. I sold those sets and donated all the proceeds to charity. The fun is having an obtainable goal and, through many years of collecting, reaching that goal. Meeting people through the process was a positive experience for me and knowing the proceeds benefited an organization that helps others was just icing on the cake.
@NationalSpittoon said:
The rise of prices may or may not contribute to PSA's demise, however I think their policies are much more concerning.
For reference, I am 18 years old now, and I have collected PSA graded cards for probably 5.5 years or so. I was around 13 when I called PSA "incompetent retards", and my account has been blocked since. I have tried to apologize many times since as it is a lapse in judgment, but it seems that the recognition of that is not their M.O. I cannot even log into the registry now, so I assume my account is shadow banned. When I try to contact them about this, they send me the same copy and pasted email every time. I know it is copy and pasted because there is actually an identical spelling error in both, and they are worded the exact same way. They seem to be just as immature as I was.
If this is how they treat their consumer base (of whom has genuine criticism), then they should not expect rewards. It is understandable for me to get warned for that moronic statement that I made, but there was a genuine reason for it. (They took far longer to transfer a sticker that I own into my registry that I own than they estimated on their website.) Basically, I criticized their customer service at the end of the day.
@sppotbaseballsets said:
In response to BJY 83, in 2002 I sold a large group of raw Topps sets and used the proceeds to collect Topps PSA graded sets from 1952 to 1967. I started collecting as follows: 1952 PSA 3 and 1953 to 1967 PSA 7. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 5, 1953 to 1959 PSA 7 and 8, and 1960 to 1967 PSA 8. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 7, 1953 to 1955 plus 1958 and 1962 PSA 8, and 1956 to 1967 (excluding 1958 and 1962) PSA 8 and 9. From 1952 to 1967 Topps sets, when cumulating each year's rating, the collection ranked #1 on the set registry for those 16 years. I sold those sets and donated all the proceeds to charity. The fun is having an obtainable goal and, through many years of collecting, reaching that goal. Meeting people through the process was a positive experience for me and knowing the proceeds benefited an organization that helps others was just icing on the cake.
Incredible story and you seem like an incredible human being.
I think people are drawing improper conclusions throughout this thread. As users of the service, we view it through that singular lens. It’s a micro view of just the one customer (yourself) and our own experience. Sometimes it is beneficial to have a macro view, too, as it can help to put things in perspective.
PSA is a privately owned, for profit business
While basic, it sometimes needs to be stated. As such, it is there prerogative to charge whatever they like and they would be foolish not to maximize their profit - like any business. PSA graded card prices have soared in the last two to three years, causing a backlog and shutdown (that the only recently cleared) which means their service was underpriced and as such they recognized that their service is clearly in demand and so they raised prices. If you want to see Springsteen, Swift or Elton John, be prayed for the same thing. The basic idea behind it all is if the secondary market is full of profit, the primary seller isn’t charging enough.
Turnaround Times
This is easily the greatest source of frustration. There are definitely inconsistencies - individually - but on a macro level you select your wait time upon submission and it says in big bold letters that all wait times are approximate and not guaranteed. People love to ignore that fact when they suggest PSA is taking too long. And yes, I get frustrated too! I have a one card express order that is there right now. As an avid board reader, I have seen at least one person have a Regular multi card sub arrived the same day as mine, it was logged in a day before mine and completed before mine. That sucks, sure, but what is the point in calling or emailing? They get to it when they get to it and 99% of submitters have the exact same issue.
Am I calling to tell them they’re taking too long? Do I think they’re somehow unaware of this fact? What percentage of emailed and called in complaints are related to turnaround times, do you think? 75%? 80%? 90%?
In ANY Business…
A good business finds ways to make more profits.
A good business finds ways to take care of its best customers while maintaining its integrity.
A good business disseminates important information and communicates with its customers honestly and effectively, as best as they possibly can.
Short Memory
PSA has actually addressed a lot of complaints and flaws that people have had since I began to submit cards. Their research department is considerably better and easier to communicate with, cards at more and more service levels come complete with beautiful front and back images, PSA has extended memberships; an annual cost savings for anyone who was a member at the time of shut down. They also stopped all potential capital inflows to deal with a very major and real problem of being overwhelmed with submissions, expanded capacity significantly. They hired Todd Tobias, aka @AFLFan, who has been an excellent level headed moderator on these boards, as well as company spokesman and content provider. And they’ve added multiple significant customer communication vehicles, too.
Obviously, there is always room for a business to improve and I have identified plenty of problems (and potential solutions for them, too) that plague PSA that are both major and minor but this is most definitely not the proper venue for it.
PS - For the young poster who was ‘banned’ by PSA? Based on your post, I don’t see that you’ve matured all that much from 13-18 (based on the text of your post) since it reads in your post like you are still blaming PSA for your own mistakes.
As an analogy, if you go to a bar and insult the bartender/staff and/or the manager/owner, you have to know that there’s a pretty good chance that you won’t be welcomed back to said bar.
Now, since it’s a post and we’re total strangers, maybe I am reading it wrong - that’s certainly a possibility, too.
But, if you have believe you have matured, my advice would be to first own your mistake and then make a more personal appeal. Texts and emails are definitely not personal really not that impactful; phone calls and face to face meetings have much greater potential for impact.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Hey Guys... I just finished reading this whole thread. Thanks to @1951WheatiesPremium for tagging me and alerting me to it. Thank you for the kind words about my work efforts as well.
I can tell you all in 100% honesty that PSA is currently putting more time, money and effort into the Set Registry than ever before. The Registry team has expanded greatly over the last few years, with individuals assigned to specific sections to build, promote and grow the Registry. Each of these people is also a collector, like you and I, and submits cards just like you and I. As a result, we all have similar understandings and experiences with grading and Registry use.
As far as people saying what PSA should do in any number of areas - grading, pricing, the Registry, expansion, etc. I have an analogy that I use here. I have been buying groceries for more than 35 years and feel like I am pretty good at it. I can buy to fill a recipe, understand couponing, freshness dates, etc. However, I would also struggle to run a grocery store. I am sure there are things having to deal with cold storage, union labor, sales, advertising and a whole lot of other things that I wouldn't even know to consider.
I have actively collected cards in one form or another since receiving a box of 1978 Topps cards when I was five years old. I'm now 49 and have never taken a break from the hobby. As a result, I feel like I am pretty well-versed here. However, when I first joined PSA and was given a tour of the process, from receiving all the way to grading and finally shipping, I realized there were a lot of things involved in the process that I hadn't even considered. I didn't even know the correct questions to ask that might lead to improving part of the process.
I've been with PSA since 2016, so I was here when Joe Orlando ran the company, through the Covid times and when Nat took over. The truth is that the hobby is continually morphing and growing. While many of us still collect in the same manner we always have, there other people collecting in new and different ways. PSA tries to accommodate all collectors as best we can, while trying to grow as a business. Unfortunately, there are very few decisions made that make 100% of collectors happy. Because we all have different interests and ways we collect, each change affects us differently.
One thing that I am very happy with is the greatly increased number of collectors who are now employed by PSA. We have a very large percentage of employees who are passionate about this hobby. As a result, they want to help make improvements to PSA and the hobby overall not only because it is their jobs, but because they truly love the area in which they work. Because of the diversity of collectors now working at PSA, we can also better understand and anticipate how changes will affect different groups of collectors.
PSA is conscious of all types of collectors and tries very hard to accommodate the greatest number of them while growing as a business. No business is perfect, but we certainly strive every day for improvement and believe that our efforts benefit the collectors who use our services.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
I don't feel like it's going to die. Covid brought a madness to the hobby. People that never collected started collecting and many old time collectors got back into collecting. Prices for cards went through the roof. Walmart & Target had to pull cards from the shelves as many were buying packs & boxes & just instantly flipping on Social Media while some were fighting & trying to rob others for the cards. The price for young players (ROOKIE CARDS) with little playing time are more than many HOF'ers. As prices drop so will the amount of collectors,mostly the ones that joined during the madness that only did it for the $$. Most true collectors collect because they enjoy the hobby & have been doing it since they were very kids. It is also nice to have a hobby that you can pass on to your kids & if they have no interest you know they will be rewarded $$.
Collecting cards is my therapy.
Merry Christmas & enjoy your collecting.
Interesting...this thread was started on June 29th today I got an Email from PSA that wanted me to do (answer) a survey of around 50 or so question's about the registry sets and what my thoughts were on the whole registry thing.
I thought it was nice that they wanted my opinion(s).
Any one else receive a similar Email?
@Redglobe said:
Interesting...this thread was started on June 29th today I got an Email from PSA that wanted me to do (answer) a survey of around 50 or so question's about the registry sets and what my thoughts were on the whole registry thing.
I thought it was nice that they wanted my opinion(s).
Any one else receive a similar Email?
I did.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
I buy already slabbed coins and don't worry about it. There are so many under graded slabs out there that I don't need to worry about anything but upgrades where it is of value.
My last submission, returned on May 2nd, was for seven 1997 cards.
Carefully examined before sending them off, I received four 9's and three 10's.
I'm talking 1967.
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
You are in the minority with that opinion; but it's what your eyes are telling you. Can't argue with your own opinion. I simply do not agree with you at all.
I was once the owner of the #1 Harmon Killebrew Master set and I have quite a few items that I would like to get graded.
I am not going to spend the amount of money it would take to get them graded. I also don't agree with several decisions that PSA has made excluding several of my "best" items items from the Master set.
I had a perfectly nice collection before I found out about the Registry, and had a lot of fun sending in my cards, it's not fun anymore, so I will continue to collect and enjoy the hobby without going broke submitting items that (mostly) aren't worth the grading fees.
The registry will probably not die, but it will become the domain of the wealthy, much like everything else in this country that is ruled by the almighty dollar.
I think it all depends on whether you get an experienced grader or not. I've seen some real dogs recently graded and given high grades but that's the exception, not the rule. If you get a grader experienced in vintage, the results will probably be typical of pre-pandemic standards. If you get a new grader that's handling mostly modern, you likely will get hammered but you also could get gift grades galore with a few of those graders. At least that's my theory.
What you wrote seems completely reasonable except for PSA has clearly stated on a number of occasions that they have graders for each era. Do we think that vintage do not go to vintage graders? It seems vintage is going to the 19 year old graders who grade 2021 Trout and Morant cards.
Out of curiosity, does anyone believe that cards are graded by the same standard whether or not they are star RC or just a common? It sure seems to me based on my recent orders that it's much tougher to get a higher grade on a valuable card. Of course that's just my opinion.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
BGS and SGC might do well with modern subs, but both of their set registries are garbage imo. The high cost of grading only put a pause on the registry. I don't know anyone that has left in the sets that I pc.
My sets:
https://psacard.com/psasetregistry/bswhiten/othersets/32885
A Mantle , Aaron, Jordan, Ruth , etc. is going to be looked at much, much, closer and graded harsher than commons. always been that way.
I tend to agree although I'm not sure it should be that way. A card should be graded on the merits of the card not on whose picture is on the card. If this is in fact true, it kind makes the whole idea of grading cards questionable.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
If a company is going to give a collector a card that in a 7 may be worth $1000 . Or an 8 that makes it a 10,000 or 9 that makes it worth 100,000 you can bet that as a business , those cards are going to be inspected closer than a common card worth 10.00 or 50.00'. Its a business now, not a hobby . Sad , but true.
The rise of prices may or may not contribute to PSA's demise, however I think their policies are much more concerning.
For reference, I am 18 years old now, and I have collected PSA graded cards for probably 5.5 years or so. I was around 13 when I called PSA "incompetent retards", and my account has been blocked since. I have tried to apologize many times since as it is a lapse in judgment, but it seems that the recognition of that is not their M.O. I cannot even log into the registry now, so I assume my account is shadow banned. When I try to contact them about this, they send me the same copy and pasted email every time. I know it is copy and pasted because there is actually an identical spelling error in both, and they are worded the exact same way. They seem to be just as immature as I was.
If this is how they treat their consumer base (of whom has genuine criticism), then they should not expect rewards. It is understandable for me to get warned for that moronic statement that I made, but there was a genuine reason for it. (They took far longer to transfer a sticker that I own into my registry that I own than they estimated on their website.) Basically, I criticized their customer service at the end of the day.
I have no problem with a company inspecting a card closely, I'm just say a PSA 7 or whatever should be handed out based on the same merits of the card being graded not the value of the card.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
Mantle is always going to looked at , inspected, given more time or whatever than any common card. Regardless of money involved. A Mantle PSA 3 may be worth less than a (lets say) a PSA Snider 7 , but it will be looked at much more carefully.
There are many things they can do to make the user experience of the registry better. Until nay improvements are made they need to be better/quicker in adding sets and managing slot requests
I totally agree with what you are saying. I questioning whether or not that it should be that way. I guess if in the future you have AI doing the grading that should stop. A PSA 7 card should be graded as a PSA 7 card no matter who's picture is on the card.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
I think now PSA is looking extra carefully for flaws. And with AI all cards are graded harsher . And yes , all should be graded the same , but because of value and forgery some are always going to be looked at more carefully. Nobody forges Joe Blow but Jordan, yes. so Jordan is going to get more attention . But, SHOULD it? Probably not in a perfect world, but it is in this one.
It’s not rocket science - just set a special price for any sub that is from a private person ( not a submission company) that contains more than 50 different cards from the same set - nobody but a registry collector would do that. Or perhaps 100 cards allowing 2 of each so psa can kill one🙂…
Congratulations on getting to 100% for the 1985 Topps Mini set!
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
Thanks Bob! Your high grade set is superb!
It is impossible to build a graded set through submissions anymore with the prices, particularly vintage. I have been working on grading out complete 1954, 1956, 1959, 1960 and 1961 Topps baseball sets that I inherited from my father in-law many years ago. Used to be I could submit a couple hundred at $4/card (min 100 cards) in bulk pricing. That deal went away long ago, so waited for the quarterly specials, prices eventually doubled at least but still I'd do $8 or $10/card for the commons to get them done, but that was about it. Those prices are long gone now and it's cheaper to search out graded lots on ebay. That's really the only strategy that makes sense for set-building now. Especially since I don't care too much about the common grades, so long as they are nice looking, PSA 2 or 3 are good enough commons for my sets, and they can be found for far less than the grading costs - even though most of my raw cards would grade much higher, don't really care about that for the commons, it isn't worth the investment That may change as more people like me haven't been submitting anymore and the available inventory of graded vintage commons dries up. It also kills the raw vintage market, since I'm now buying graded cards that I already have raw, but I can't sell the raw duplicates to cover the cost because no one can do anything with them. There aren't many raw collectors left.
There's no doubt some of the larger dealers have special arrangements with PSA for cheaper bulk submissions. There's no way they could make money on consignment purchases of vintage raw sets otherwise, even with some high grade stars thrown in. But even to that end, they aren't offering what they used to. I took one of my duplicate 1956 Topps sets to a couple shops, they basically offered me lowball offers on what the net graded value of the stars would be to them, basically I'd be giving away the other 90% of the set commons for free. It's the opposite of how vintage collectibles should work. The offers I had for a complete 1956 ungraded set 20 years ago, for instance, were much higher than I've gotten today. Dealers aren't stupid, and only care what they will get in return for the max star grades in the set, and there just aren't any vintage collectors around anymore interested in owning a complete, ungraded set, for those prices.
PSA is well aware of the market, there's a lot of inventory for set builders out there on ebay and once that dries up, people like me will have no choice to pay for submissions again at the high prices. As the supply continues to shrink (because nobody can submit commons anymore), prices for the commons will increase, which will make the submission costs seem reasonable.
I just completed a couple of high grade raw vintage football sets over the last few years - there most definitely are vintage collectors around interested in owning complete, ungraded sets!
If you go to a big card show like the National, Philly, Chantilly, etc. you'll see there are lots of collectors out there who still buy raw vintage and build sets. You might stand for a half an hour waiting for a seat to dig through boxes at some of these booths while watching others go through their checklists. If you follow Greg Morris' auctions on eBay you'll see that there are lots of folks paying up for quality raw vintage cards from his auctions. While I'm sure some of those cards get submitted for grading, I know the vast majority of cards I've purchased from him are in my raw vintage sets sitting in Card Saver 1's.
I think this whole thing is a bit overblown frankly. Saying things like "it's impossible to build a graded set through submissions" just isn't true. It might be true that it would cost more than you're willing to pay, but that's not the same thing as impossible. Folks are frustrated that they don't currently have access to grading that was as cheap as it was in the past, but that doesn't mean it'll always be that way going forward. PSA has the capacity to grade nearly one million cards a month. There are many, many posts on here saying we'd never see $20 grading again... At least until PSA's current $18 / card special.
The hobby goes through peaks and valleys - we just went through an amazing, almost unimaginable (since no grading company was prepared for it) increase in submissions and we're now going through the process of bringing those prices back down to meet demand. This too shall pass and I'll be very surprised if you don't see $10 grading again (maybe $8), even if only via specials.
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
I believe it will die. PSA does not take care of their customers needs any longer and they don't grade cards for a reasonable price. Not sure how the SR can survive.
The SR can survive if PSA takes care of their customers needs and starts to grade cards (consistently and transparently) for a reasonable price (hey, that would make a good mission statement).
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
I am told from a very reliable source, that this page is watched very closely by PSA management.
So...tell them what you think.
Once the new people that jumped into the grading frenzy created by the Covid lockdown
and the craziness surrounding the fighting over retail product died down , things are starting
to return to normal ! Reality is setting in and collectors and flippers are not getting rich playing
the grading game with the stricter ???? grading by the G.O.D.'s ! Plus the 15 to 16 months to
get your cards back , a lot of collectors and flippers have seen the ships sail out already !
Personally , I have been waiting over 15 months to get a 23 card submission back .......currrently
in grading for the past two months ! Not that I'm complaining , as I have no desire to sell these
cards since they are for my PC , BUT STILL , the longer I wait the more I start to lose interest in
the Registry ! At the current grading prices of $30.00/card , its just not economically sound to submit
cards unless they wound give me all Psa 10's
Robbie
1963 Fleer
Lou Brock Master Set
I believe that once the new locations are opened and fully staffed, PSA will drop their prices to $10 - $15 a card with somewhat reasonable turnaround times. They will likely need to do that to keep the cards flowing in.
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
@smallstocks Certainly hope that you are right. Looking forward to submitting needed commons for registry sets.
Once again the set registry isn't going to die. A 1975 top ranked set is sitting at $150k in MH's auction and isn't over yet. Plus add 20% on top of that if that's the final bid amount. It's not practical to build most sets through your own submissions at the moment but I can't see the prices staying here long term. Nat has already stated that there will be registry friendly specials returning once the backlog is worked down. It won't be $4. It probably won't even be $8. But it won't be $20 either. If anyone wants to sell their vintage, high grade registry sets, I might be interested.
The registry is a screen full of names and sets. It can live forever as long as PSA doesn't delete it. New submissions to fill those sets.... we shall see. I suggest people send in all of their 1971 Topps baseball as it's the most fairly graded set on the registry. You always get very high grades. 8's and 9's are plentiful. Almost everyone who submits 71's are very delighted with the results. It's simply a wonderful experience all around.
I agree Mickey71, My aunt Jenny just opened two boxes of 71's and she says they are all perfect. I'll see if I can get her to post some pictures.
I'm glad you saw the humor in my statement about 1971's.
I'm collecting to build sets for vintage hockey. Feels like a dog fight to get those quality 9s and 10s.
When I look at the top registry sets for my favorite years, I feel like a kid peering in from outside a store window.
I recently sold PSA registry sets through Heritage Auctions. I collected these sets over a period of twenty years. There were 16 complete sets of Topps baseball cards from 1952 through 1967. If you added the value of every card in the 16 sets using VCP average price the total value was $2,100,000. At Heritages 8/28/22 Platinum Auction, these sets sold for $2,445,000 or over 16% above VCP average value. From these auction results, I would conclude that there is still a lot of interest in PSA registry sets.
I watched your sets with interest because I have a similar run of sets. I agree that the results were pretty strong, certain years more than others.
Also, it goes without saying that was very generous of you to donate all the proceeds from the sets.
I would like to see a "Registry Special" where if you submitted an item that qualified, but was not yet in your players Master set, PSA would charge around $10.00.
This would be a nice thing for player collectors.
Secondly, since PSA charges more for higher value cards a special price could be given to people subbing commons missing from their complete sets.
Just a couple of random thoughts that will never happen.
I think an easy solution would be for PSA to lower the grading costs for common cards and offer a discount for
current members of the set registry. The grading discount fees would only apply for commons that are needed to "fill" or "upgrade" currently registered sets. Key card rookies or higher valued cards would not be eligible for the pricing discount. I think they need to do something soon, as graded commons for vintage sets are getting harder and harder to find.
I wonder what my complete 1978 Topps graded set would fetch these days. Mostly built with old school $5 bulk specials 15 to 18 years ago
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Your sets were amazing. I'd love to hear about how you amassed such an incredible collection.
Brian
I don't think that it is going to die. Hopefully we will continue to see some drops in grading prices. Once it makes sense to grade the lower value cards in the registry, it will start to come back. Would like to see it at around $10.00, even it is only for some monthly specials.
Matt
There is a new set that I happened to have a couple cards of. I decided to test the Registry waters and started my first set. A couple months later, another 4 people have started the set. On YouTube, there is a lot of content with 25 to 100 PSA graded cards being shared with the world. If PSA can capitalize on this new group of collectors from the pandemic to assist in expanding their collection, the registry will carry on strong. Registry specials will be key as mentioned.
In response to BJY 83, in 2002 I sold a large group of raw Topps sets and used the proceeds to collect Topps PSA graded sets from 1952 to 1967. I started collecting as follows: 1952 PSA 3 and 1953 to 1967 PSA 7. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 5, 1953 to 1959 PSA 7 and 8, and 1960 to 1967 PSA 8. I sold those and used the proceeds to collect as follows: 1952 PSA 7, 1953 to 1955 plus 1958 and 1962 PSA 8, and 1956 to 1967 (excluding 1958 and 1962) PSA 8 and 9. From 1952 to 1967 Topps sets, when cumulating each year's rating, the collection ranked #1 on the set registry for those 16 years. I sold those sets and donated all the proceeds to charity. The fun is having an obtainable goal and, through many years of collecting, reaching that goal. Meeting people through the process was a positive experience for me and knowing the proceeds benefited an organization that helps others was just icing on the cake.
Incredible story and you seem like an incredible human being.
Brian
No, the Set Registry will not die.
I think people are drawing improper conclusions throughout this thread. As users of the service, we view it through that singular lens. It’s a micro view of just the one customer (yourself) and our own experience. Sometimes it is beneficial to have a macro view, too, as it can help to put things in perspective.
PSA is a privately owned, for profit business
While basic, it sometimes needs to be stated. As such, it is there prerogative to charge whatever they like and they would be foolish not to maximize their profit - like any business. PSA graded card prices have soared in the last two to three years, causing a backlog and shutdown (that the only recently cleared) which means their service was underpriced and as such they recognized that their service is clearly in demand and so they raised prices. If you want to see Springsteen, Swift or Elton John, be prayed for the same thing. The basic idea behind it all is if the secondary market is full of profit, the primary seller isn’t charging enough.
Turnaround Times
This is easily the greatest source of frustration. There are definitely inconsistencies - individually - but on a macro level you select your wait time upon submission and it says in big bold letters that all wait times are approximate and not guaranteed. People love to ignore that fact when they suggest PSA is taking too long. And yes, I get frustrated too! I have a one card express order that is there right now. As an avid board reader, I have seen at least one person have a Regular multi card sub arrived the same day as mine, it was logged in a day before mine and completed before mine. That sucks, sure, but what is the point in calling or emailing? They get to it when they get to it and 99% of submitters have the exact same issue.
Am I calling to tell them they’re taking too long? Do I think they’re somehow unaware of this fact? What percentage of emailed and called in complaints are related to turnaround times, do you think? 75%? 80%? 90%?
In ANY Business…
A good business finds ways to make more profits.
A good business finds ways to take care of its best customers while maintaining its integrity.
A good business disseminates important information and communicates with its customers honestly and effectively, as best as they possibly can.
Short Memory
PSA has actually addressed a lot of complaints and flaws that people have had since I began to submit cards. Their research department is considerably better and easier to communicate with, cards at more and more service levels come complete with beautiful front and back images, PSA has extended memberships; an annual cost savings for anyone who was a member at the time of shut down. They also stopped all potential capital inflows to deal with a very major and real problem of being overwhelmed with submissions, expanded capacity significantly. They hired Todd Tobias, aka @AFLFan, who has been an excellent level headed moderator on these boards, as well as company spokesman and content provider. And they’ve added multiple significant customer communication vehicles, too.
Obviously, there is always room for a business to improve and I have identified plenty of problems (and potential solutions for them, too) that plague PSA that are both major and minor but this is most definitely not the proper venue for it.
PS - For the young poster who was ‘banned’ by PSA? Based on your post, I don’t see that you’ve matured all that much from 13-18 (based on the text of your post) since it reads in your post like you are still blaming PSA for your own mistakes.
As an analogy, if you go to a bar and insult the bartender/staff and/or the manager/owner, you have to know that there’s a pretty good chance that you won’t be welcomed back to said bar.
Now, since it’s a post and we’re total strangers, maybe I am reading it wrong - that’s certainly a possibility, too.
But, if you have believe you have matured, my advice would be to first own your mistake and then make a more personal appeal. Texts and emails are definitely not personal really not that impactful; phone calls and face to face meetings have much greater potential for impact.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Hey Guys... I just finished reading this whole thread. Thanks to @1951WheatiesPremium for tagging me and alerting me to it. Thank you for the kind words about my work efforts as well.
I can tell you all in 100% honesty that PSA is currently putting more time, money and effort into the Set Registry than ever before. The Registry team has expanded greatly over the last few years, with individuals assigned to specific sections to build, promote and grow the Registry. Each of these people is also a collector, like you and I, and submits cards just like you and I. As a result, we all have similar understandings and experiences with grading and Registry use.
As far as people saying what PSA should do in any number of areas - grading, pricing, the Registry, expansion, etc. I have an analogy that I use here. I have been buying groceries for more than 35 years and feel like I am pretty good at it. I can buy to fill a recipe, understand couponing, freshness dates, etc. However, I would also struggle to run a grocery store. I am sure there are things having to deal with cold storage, union labor, sales, advertising and a whole lot of other things that I wouldn't even know to consider.
I have actively collected cards in one form or another since receiving a box of 1978 Topps cards when I was five years old. I'm now 49 and have never taken a break from the hobby. As a result, I feel like I am pretty well-versed here. However, when I first joined PSA and was given a tour of the process, from receiving all the way to grading and finally shipping, I realized there were a lot of things involved in the process that I hadn't even considered. I didn't even know the correct questions to ask that might lead to improving part of the process.
I've been with PSA since 2016, so I was here when Joe Orlando ran the company, through the Covid times and when Nat took over. The truth is that the hobby is continually morphing and growing. While many of us still collect in the same manner we always have, there other people collecting in new and different ways. PSA tries to accommodate all collectors as best we can, while trying to grow as a business. Unfortunately, there are very few decisions made that make 100% of collectors happy. Because we all have different interests and ways we collect, each change affects us differently.
One thing that I am very happy with is the greatly increased number of collectors who are now employed by PSA. We have a very large percentage of employees who are passionate about this hobby. As a result, they want to help make improvements to PSA and the hobby overall not only because it is their jobs, but because they truly love the area in which they work. Because of the diversity of collectors now working at PSA, we can also better understand and anticipate how changes will affect different groups of collectors.
PSA is conscious of all types of collectors and tries very hard to accommodate the greatest number of them while growing as a business. No business is perfect, but we certainly strive every day for improvement and believe that our efforts benefit the collectors who use our services.
I don't feel like it's going to die. Covid brought a madness to the hobby. People that never collected started collecting and many old time collectors got back into collecting. Prices for cards went through the roof. Walmart & Target had to pull cards from the shelves as many were buying packs & boxes & just instantly flipping on Social Media while some were fighting & trying to rob others for the cards. The price for young players (ROOKIE CARDS) with little playing time are more than many HOF'ers. As prices drop so will the amount of collectors,mostly the ones that joined during the madness that only did it for the $$. Most true collectors collect because they enjoy the hobby & have been doing it since they were very kids. It is also nice to have a hobby that you can pass on to your kids & if they have no interest you know they will be rewarded $$.
Collecting cards is my therapy.
Merry Christmas & enjoy your collecting.
Interesting...this thread was started on June 29th today I got an Email from PSA that wanted me to do (answer) a survey of around 50 or so question's about the registry sets and what my thoughts were on the whole registry thing.
I thought it was nice that they wanted my opinion(s).
Any one else receive a similar Email?
I did.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.