Peace vs. Morgan PCGS Submission

FlyingAl

I have these two dollars, one a Peace and the other a Morgan. I am trying to decide which to send off to grade, and I'm thinking the Morgan because it has a little more value in the current grade. Which would you choose and why? I really doubt that I'll send the Peace so it's more of a post to see how the members feel about attractiveness/eye appeal in submissions versus value. The Peace is much more attractive in my eyes but the Morgan has more value, so it lead to the question of do I send eye appeal or value?

Peace (I grade it 63):

Morgan (I grade it 64):

david3142

I would go with neither. Why do you need either one in a holder? Even if you get the 64 for the 1890 it’s worth $125.
The Peace Dollar is probably worth $45 now and in a 64 holder it’s $70.

MFeld

I probably wouldn’t submit either coin. The Morgan looks no better then a 63 to me, due to the face and neck, along with the subdued luster.

pursuitofliberty

First, excellent images.

Is that a die crack on the obverse of the 1890? If so, is it a rarer VAM?

I'm with @david3142 and @MFeld ... not sure I would submit either, but if I was going to do one, and that is a crack on the 1890, I would research the VAM and get that on the holder.

Both are nice Choice Unc's in my eyes.

FlyingAl

@pursuitofliberty said:
First, excellent images.

Is that a die crack on the obverse of the 1890? If so, is it a rarer VAM?

I'm with @david3142 and @MFeld ... not sure I would submit either, but if I was going to do one, and that is a crack on the 1890, I would research the VAM and get that on the holder.

Both are nice Choice Unc's in my eyes.

Yes, it is a die crack, I was unable to attribute the VAM. I will have to retry and see if I can manage it the second time.

@MFeld @david3142
I do agree that the Peace is not worth submitting. On the other hand, the Morgan does seem to be worth it. This was part of a collection that was generously granted to me after the owner had passed and the heirs had no idea what to do with it, and as such gave it to me once they learned I was a collector. No one wanted the hassle of a sale for a lower value collection and they saw this as the best option. It is the best coin of the collection, the rest were common date worn Lincoln cents and a few silver quarters.

As such, I have no cost except grading fees and it would be valued quite a bit more in the holder than without. For me, this makes it worth submitting.

FlyingAl

Correction, now that I really look at the Morgan, I do believe what appeared to be a die crack is some sort of planchet flaw, which explains why I could not attribute it.

MFeld

@FlyingAl said:
@pursuitofliberty said:
First, excellent images.

Is that a die crack on the obverse of the 1890? If so, is it a rarer VAM?

I'm with @david3142 and @MFeld ... not sure I would submit either, but if I was going to do one, and that is a crack on the 1890, I would research the VAM and get that on the holder.

Both are nice Choice Unc's in my eyes.

Yes, it is a die crack, I was unable to attribute the VAM. I will have to retry and see if I can manage it the second time.

@MFeld @david3142
I do agree that the Peace is not worth submitting. On the other hand, the Morgan does seem to be worth it. This was part of a collection that was generously granted to me after the owner had passed and the heirs had no idea what to do with it, and as such gave it to me once they learned I was a collector. No one wanted the hassle of a sale for a lower value collection and they saw this as the best option. It is the best coin of the collection, the rest were common date worn Lincoln cents and a few silver quarters.

As such, I have no cost except grading fees and it would be valued quite a bit more in the holder than without. For me, this makes it worth submitting.

Obviously, you should do as you please, but your cost in the coin shouldn’t matter. What counts is the difference in “value” graded vs. ungraded and how that amount compares to the cost of grading and postage. Best of luck with it.

Unknown

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lilolme

That 'mark' on the Morgan appears to have a radius to it that is almost the same as the radius of the dollar (difficult to determine on screen). This makes me suspicious that it has something to do with another coin. It would be interesting if you laid the Peace dollar on it and see how close the outer edge of the Peace dollar lines up with the 'mark' on the Morgan.

Since you said doing for value, then I agree with MFeld.

Type2

I'm with every one else on this one. I don't think they will go MS if they do It will be low MS-61-62 let us know and good luck.

ricko

If they were mine, I would not have them slabbed. Nice coins, but they really gain nothing by slabbing IMO. Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

Neither

amwldcoin

Wanting to make another widget slab????

logger7

You could try the second tier services, such as Anacs or Icg, maybe combine with an other submitter. I know a dealer who is able to get coins like this graded for $6-$8 each in volume.

Connecticoin

Agree with others not worth grading, especially by themselves. If you add the 90 Morgan to an economy submission, the marginal grading cost MIGHT be worthwhile, by certainly not by itself.

vplite99

As stated above, it is a waste of time and money to have common BU coins slabbed

BryceM

The Peace dollar looks nice, no marks, but is there good luster? I've submitted coins that look like this and gotten AU58 grades and MS64 grades. An AU58 is a huge disappointment.

The world already has 99,879 1923 Peace dollars in PCGS MS64 holders. That's probably around a dozen for every person who ever wanted one. Does the world need number 99,880?

FlyingAl

Alright, I suppose I do have to put out my reasoning for sending the Morgan. I did not actually ever consider sending the Peace, but more so wanted to ask those here wether they would send a more attractive coin to grade rather than one with more value (assuming both are worth submitting). As this post has turned to more a whether to submit or not, I think it would be good to address that.

First things first, I think we can all agree that a coin is worth submitting when its value in the holder exceeds the value out of the holder. I also factor in that the coin in the holder must be worth more in the holder than my total cost to acquire the coin and grade it. For this coin, such a cost is around $37 gave or take a dollar. Below is what I think the coin warrants submission.

1. The Morgan is coin number eight in a voucher submission.
2. I have very few options locally to sell the coin raw. A nearby brick and mortar store would maybe offer me melt, it's one of those stores that would never offer a fair price. I could maybe net a profit of $35 for it with my limited options raw.
3. The coin in the holder is around a $100 coin for a 63 and a $150 for a 64. If I sell it at GC, I would net around 90% of that for around $90 or more.

All said and done, I would end up netting a profit of around $52. Suppose I get a 64, that's $98. While this may not seem like much, it's how I've financed my collection as a YN. I don't have huge funds so I have to play my cards carefully and take those small profits and make more cherrypicks. It all adds up and I've fared pretty well playing this game. Take coins that no one else submits, make $50 and re-invest in the hobby.

And there's always the fact that I have other coins in the submission to fall back on if this ends up a bust. I always try to make sure my submissions have ample room for error at all times.

david3142

Why don’t you try selling the Morgan raw on the BST or Instagram for $80 and see what happens?

BryceM

.... and if they come back cleaned, or as AU58s?

FlyingAl

@david3142 said:
Why don’t you try selling the Morgan raw on the BST or Instagram for $80 and see what happens?

I hadn’t even considered the BST as it wouldn’t have been an option until about a month or two ago. That does seem to be a much better option and I will likely do that. Thanks for reminding me!

@BryceM said:
.... and if they come back cleaned, or as AU58s?

Well this is true of every coin submitted. You’ve got to trust your ability to grade instead of worrying what happens if it goes wrong and learn from what does go wrong. All in all, I probably won’t end up submitting it now due to the above.

RAB

Nice photos! Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

airplanenut

@FlyingAl said:

First things first, I think we can all agree that a coin is worth submitting when its value in the holder exceeds the value out of the holder. I also factor in that the coin in the holder must be worth more in the holder than my total cost to acquire the coin and grade it.

Well allow me to disagree. A coin is worth grading if, because it is graded, the value rises more than the cost of grading. Taking away the gamble of getting a gift of a grade with a huge payout or an unexpectedly low grade for a second, if it costs $50 to grade a coin and doing so makes it worth $20 more than raw, you lose $30 by grading it, even though the coin is worth more in the holder. Now what if the coin is worth $60 more when graded? Is it worth the time and gamble of a lower grade? Maybe it’s still not worth grading for a small profit at best.

If you’re looking to make a profit, what matters is how much you have in the end. All of the intermediate values mean nothing unless they are being used to calculate the final value at the time of sale and the net sum of costs.

lilolme

@FlyingAl

What airplanenut says is good in my opinion. However, I think it is just the wording in your paragraph that is unclear (I am good at doing this - unclear wording) because you appear to be doing what they say in your example.

That is you indicate the coin raw to be worth $35. If graded and a 63 $100 and if sold thru GC netting $90 and then final netting $52 due to grading cost of $37 within a dollar or so. So $52 compares to $35. You do similar for a 64.

As far as, is it worth the time to do for a minimal profit and gamble of a 58 grade or similar. I think you covered it with your response of trust your ability and learn from what goes wrong (just don't gamble big). But just as important is the listening and you appear to do that as you indicate you probably won't submit now. Appears to be a good thread overall.

.
Hey, just want to make sure you are aware of GC selling 'rules'. While they have a 10% buyers fee (when paid as they note) they also might have a seller fee. This is from their webpage:

The lowest seller's fees - 0% for coins/banknotes that realize over $1,000 or 5% for coins/banknotes $1,000 or under

Also there is a small 'listing fee' but can be applied to up to 5 coins for one 'listing fee'. From GC website listing form:

Minimum Bid....... Listing Fee
$1-$99 ....................$3
$100-$999 .............$5
$1,000 and up.......$10

Oh, I did an on-screen manual photoshop type of thing (what the heck is that?) and it appears that rounded 'mark' on the Morgan, discussed as a potential die crack or flaw, does match the outer radius of a Morgan/Peace (from the nose to the letter S). So I am still suspicious it has something to do with another coin.

FlyingAl

@airplanenut This was what I was getting at in my second sentence you quoted. As I read it now it is very unclear but what you wrote was what I had intended to say. Thanks!

@lilolme You are right about GC, I did however recently sell some coins through them and netted around a consistent 90% after fees.

Also the mark on the coin is raised, so I would doubt that it was due to contact with another coin and I do think it may be some sort of planchet flaw. Interesting it’s the same radius of another dollar though!

Thanks all for the comments, this has been really helpful. It makes me think through why I should or shouldn’t grade a coin and defend my stance on it, and I appreciate the discussion!

jesbroken

If that is a die crack, that is the smoothest radial die crack I have seen. Looks almost like a pencil line. Also the 23 Peace seems the 3 in date has been flattened on the lower portion of the 3.
I would pass on grading either.
Jim

messydesk

I would only grade them through a dealer bulk submission. I don't see either as being better than 63, and you'd need 64s on both to make an economy submission pay for itself.

lilolme

@jesbroken said:
If that is a die crack, that is the smoothest radial die crack I have seen. Looks almost like a pencil line. Also the 23 Peace seems the 3 in date has been flattened on the lower portion of the 3.
I would pass on grading either.
Jim

I was wondering if another dollar sitting on top of it could cause additional debris/tone or something depending on where it was stored. But I kind of like the pencil theme. Don't know. Matching radii is a bit coincidental.

FlyingAl

For the record, neither coin will be submitted and I’ll likely put them on the BST when I have time.