1883 Proof Shield Nickel - Should I have PCGS Conserve it? - Update: Conservation disappointing

Connecticoin

I have this 1883 Proof Shield Nickel which is graded PCGS PR66. The haze does not look too awful in hand, but I am thinking the eye appeal might improve with professional conservation.

Has anyone had experience with using PCGS conservation to remove haze from Proof nickels, especially Shield Nickels? Your thoughts and input would be appreciated.

**Update: ** Conservation was done in late 2022, results are discussed below in January 2025 posts. Bottom line: conservation was disappointing - not much improvement, in fact, the coin looks essentially the same. Lesson learned: it is difficult to safely remove haze from U.S. proof nickels.

winesteven

1. I’ve had positive experiences with the PCGS Restoration Department, but NOT with having them remove haze from a nickel.
2. I’m no expert, so before submitting based on my next point, wait to see if there are intelligent replies below from knowledgeable people on this forum.
3. If the experts in the PCGS Restoration department believe they cannot do anything in a Positive manner for the eye appeal of this coin, they will not accept it for Restoration. In that case, your cost is only their $10 exam fee plus shipping. If it were me, I’d send it in! I’ve submitted several PCGS graded four figure coins to PCGS Restoration, without ever having a bad outcome.

Edited to add: If they do accept it for Restoration, be aware the coin WILL get a new cert number. They absolutely will not allow you to retain the same cert number!

If you do end up submitting it, please post before and after photos, sharing your thoughts. This way we can all learn and benefit from your experience.

Steve

Joey29

@Connecticoin said:
I have this 1883 Proof Shield Nickel which is graded PCGS PR66. The haze does not look too awful in hand, but I am thinking the eye appeal might improve with professional conservation.

Has anyone had experience with using PCGS conservation to remove haze from Proof nickels, especially Shield Nickels? Your thoughts and input would be appreciated.

I have only one experience with restoration, with a Buffalo nickel for pvc and the coin came out very good

BillJones

Looking at the haze on this piece, some of it has a coppery look to it. If that’s the basis of most of it, there not much you can do about it. It’s the composition of the coin, not some foreign material on it or a thin layer of oxidation. It would best to leave it alone or look for another example if it really displeases you.

Looking beyond that, the surfaces on this coin appear to be more satiny than brilliant. Once more that’s something you can’t change.

ricko

I have seen good reports regarding PCGS Restoration. As mentioned above, if they believe nothing can be done, they will not charge beyond the examination fee. Your decision, but basically worth checking out. Cheers, RickO

291fifth

If the photos are accurate the coin is going to be a tough sell as a 66. The haze really kills the eye appeal. Collectors of proof Shield Nickels (all two of them ) are not going to like the haze. It becomes a question of cost for the restoration versus increase in value because the coin would be a easier sell.

winesteven

@291fifth said:
If the photos are accurate the coin is going to be a tough sell as a 66. The haze really kills the eye appeal. Collectors of proof Shield Nickels (all two of them ) are not going to like the haze. It becomes a question of cost for the restoration versus increase in value because the coin would be a easier sell.

So here is what I believe is an accurate assessment of the potential cost:

1. As I noted above, if the coin is not accepted for Restoration (due to the experts determining they cannot safely help the eye appeal), the cost is then just the $10 exam fee, plus shipping.
2. If they DO accept it, then their fee is 3% of the value in the final grade (but no less than $10). I believe it may be a fair assumption that if restored, this coin would still grade PR66, and not get a bump up in grade. With Restoration, PCGS guarantees it will not drop in grade. As such, the current PCGS Price Guide value is $800, so the cost would then be only $24 (plus shipping costs). They do NOT charge the $10 exam fee if they restore a coin.

In my opinion, for $24 plus shipping costs, it’s worth it to potentially improve this “$800” coin.

By the way, I agree there might be only two collectors of Proof Shield Nickels, lol, but for my Type Sets, I do own two - one with Rays, one without.

Steve

Edit #1 - If they do restore it, it then has to get graded. As such, the cost is the 3% fee ($24), PLUS the grading fee of $40, plus round trip shipping.

Edit #2 - I just learned that PCGS has recently changed their policy, and now requires that ALL coins submitted for Restoration MUST undergo, and pay for regrading, even if rejected for Restoration! UGH! That should minimize coins submitted for Restoration.

amwldcoin

If I'm not mistaken, removing haze from a nickel like that is a no go.

lilolme

@winesteven
I was agreeing with your comments (I had one returned in its original holder) but wondered about a $10 handling fee. When I went to check I find what looks like a change. Restored or not the coins are graded. Did I miss something?

General Submissions: Fees for this service are a combination of a base grading fee and a restoration fee.

The Grading Fee is based on the declared value of the coin.

The Restoration Fee is a 3% guarantee premium (min. $10) based on the value of the coin in its final grade after restoration. PCGS will determine all fees once the order is finalized.

$10 Evaluation Fee – If PCGS determines the coin(s) will not benefit from restoration or should not be restored, the coin(s) will still be submitted for grading. Coins that are not restorable will be charged an evaluation fee of $10 per coin and then sent for grading. For coins that complete the grading process, standard grading fees apply plus the evaluation fee (see submission form for grading fee structure).
Final cost of the submission cannot be determined until coins have completed the restoration and grading process; consequently, the submission form costs will be estimated before the Guarantee Premium would be applied.
Only credit cards or established lines of credit will be acceptable forms of payment.
Shipping Fees are based upon the number of coins and the declared value. See reverse of submission form for shipping rates.

@Connecticoin
The submission form (download) has some info on it about potential restoration and candidates on the second page. It mentions nickel and haze and spotting.
(the copy and paste smeared some stuff together)

RESTORATION CANDIDATES
The coins that have the best results from the PCGS Restoration service are:
Silver coins with unattractive toning - It is usually rather easy for professional experts to remove unattractive toning from silver coins, and it has been a market-accepted practice for decades. Removing toning usually does not affect a coin’s surface and is many times undetectable to even expert eyes.
Gold, silver, nickel, and clad coins with haze - Many coins develop a hazy look over time, and occasionally coin doctors will artificially haze a coin to deceptively enhance its appearance. It is usually very easy to remove haze from coins.
Brilliant proof gold coins - The appearance of brilliant proof gold coins that have haze or discolor- ation can often be improved with Restoration techniques.
Spotted nickel, silver, and clad coins - Spots can usually be removed from nickel, silver, and clad
coins, provided the spots have not corroded the surfaces of the coin. Spots usually cannot be removed from gold and copper coins.
RESTORATION TIPS
Restoration works in many cases and can generally produce wonderful results on coins. However, there is no guarantee that Restoration will increase the value or result in a higher grade for a coin.
Here are a few points to consider before submitting coins to PCGS Restoration:
Make sure the coin’s value merits the Restoration fee- An inexpensive coin might have a lower value than the Restoration fee for that piece. PCGS Restoration cannot transform a $20 coin into a $500 coin. Unless the fee-to-value ratio is not a concern, coins should be submitted to PCGS Resto- ration only if they are worth at least $100.
Do not expect miracles - PCGS Restoration can enhance the value of many coins, but it cannot make a worn coin new, reverse a cleaning on a cleaned coin, or turn an MS62 into an MS67. Some Customers have even submitted counterfeit coins for Restoration – we can’t make a counterfeit coin genuine! Remember that Restoration doesn’t always work - Sometimes the outcome will be very positive, sometimes the Restoration results are neutral, sometimes the outcome will result in a more negative appearanceforacoin.AndsometimeswecannotprovideRestorationservice.However,wedo require an evaluation fee on all submissions regardless of their final dispositions.
Read the above information carefully and only submit coins to PCGS Restoration that fit the criteria listed above.

winesteven

While you are correct for RAW coins submitted for Restoration, his Proof Nickel is already in a PCGS holder. As such, I'm under the impression no separate grading fee is added on, but I could be wrong.

Thanks.

Steve

Edit - I am wrong and @lilolme is correct. ALL coins submitted for Restoration must undergo new grading, even if not accepted for Restoration and in a PCGS holder. UGH!

cameonut2011

It’s worth a shot. You’re protected by the PCGS guarantee and frankly the coin is going to be difficult to move at PF66 money as is.

MFeld

If I owned it and was unhappy with it, instead of spending money on conservation (with uncertain results) and postage, I’d sell it and buy one I liked.

logger7

It would be an educational experience regardless of whether they did anything. You wonder how the haze developed and whether anyone else has had any experience conserving that off any copper nickel coin. It may take a while before anyone shares their experience.

Connecticoin

@MFeld said:
If I owned it and was unhappy with it, instead of spending money on conservation (with uncertain results) and postage, I’d sell it and buy one I liked.

Mark, the coin actually looks better (to me) in hand, as it seems the Trueview really emphasizes the haze. I picked it up raw at a good price, and I actually thought it was MS -- perhaps the haze made it look more "MS" than "proof" to me. I am considering selling it, but, as others above mentioned, it might be more saleable with successful haze removal, which also may motivate me to keep it. I am leaning toward trying restoration, as the risk of loss is only the evaluation fee (+ postage).

Connecticoin

Thanks all for the replies, very helpful toward me making a decision here.

lilolme

@winesteven said:
While you are correct for RAW coins submitted for Restoration, his Proof Nickel is already in a PCGS holder. As such, I'm under the impression no separate grading fee is added on, but I could be wrong.

Thanks.

Steve

That is the way it used to be. I did a double check and found the below. So I am thinking it may still be that way. But even the submission form has you select a level and they all have a grading fee associated. I didn't see another option for pcgs slabbed coins. But the below makes me think it is still there and I am missing it.

All coins are evaluated before being removed from their holders.

IkesT

@Connecticoin said:

@MFeld said:
If I owned it and was unhappy with it, instead of spending money on conservation (with uncertain results) and postage, I’d sell it and buy one I liked.

Mark, the coin actually looks better (to me) in hand, as it seems the Trueview really emphasizes the haze. I picked it up raw at a good price, and I actually thought it was MS -- perhaps the haze made it look more "MS" than "proof" to me. I am considering selling it, but, as others above mentioned, it might be more saleable with successful haze removal, which also may motivate me to keep it. I am leaning toward trying restoration, as the risk of loss is only the evaluation fee (+ postage).

Have you considered the risk that you do not like the result of the conservation?

winesteven

Being we’re talking about haze, I believe if the experts at PCGS Restoration believe they’ll improve the eye appeal by Restoration, the risk that @Connectcoin will be disappointed with those results and have regrets is extremely minimal. The biggest potential regret for him is if PCGS Restoration chooses to not restore the coin, and it cost him just $10 plus shipping costs.

Steve

Edit - I am wrong and @lilolme is correct! ALL coins submitted for Restoration MUST now undergo regrading, even if not accepted for Restoration. UGH!

Connecticoin

@winesteven said:
Being we’re talking about haze, I belief if the experts at PCGS Restoration believe they’ll improve the eye appeal by Restoration, the risk that @Connectcoin will be disappointed with those results and have regrets is extremely minimal. The biggest potential regret for him is if PCGS Restoration chooses to not restore the coin, and it cost him just $10 plus shipping costs.

Steve

That is what I was thinking, but there is some risk, which I and the consensus think is minimal, that PCGS makes the coin worse.

winesteven

@Connecticoin said:

That is what I was thinking, but there is some risk, which I and the consensus think is minimal, that PCGS makes the coin worse.

That could happen, but remember that staff has professional expertise in exactly this task. That’s all they do! If they do choose to restore it, it very well could be that you won’t jump up and down with joy, but I’d be shocked if you felt they actually made it worse.

Steve

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Connecticoin

Update: In "Grading" since 6/23/22. Will provide another update when grades post (probably in December )

ProofCollection

@Connecticoin said:
Update: In "Grading" since 6/23/22. Will provide another update when grades post (probably in December )

Has it been graded yet? Let's see the results!

P0CKETCHANGE

(old thread alert—found it in my bookmarks)

@Connecticoin what were the results from the conservation submission?

TomB

I imagine you have images of the coin post-submission. Might you share them with us?

airplanenut

@TomB said:
I imagine you have images of the coin post-submission. Might you share them with us?

Are you sure it's back yet? I hear things are a bit slow, and it hasn't even been 3 years yet...

MFeld

@airplanenut said:

@TomB said:
I imagine you have images of the coin post-submission. Might you share them with us?

Are you sure it's back yet? I hear things are a bit slow, and it hasn't even been 3 years yet...

Not to mention, although he wrote “probably in December”, he wisely omitted the year.😉

TomB

Okay, you guys (@MFeld and @airplanenut) are killing me, how could I have overlooked such obvious realities!

Connecticoin

The results of the conservation resulted in slight improvement, but not what I was hoping for. Will dig up the images and post them later.

Connecticoin

Here are the images from the restoration submission. Either they did very little to the coin, or they did not take new pictures:

4Redisin

There is an informative thread about restoring nickel coin over at Coin Talk Forum. Unfortunately, only the before and after images are shown and there are no clues to how the conservations were done.

Connecticoin

Here are the pictures I took when I sold the coin. I honestly do not know what was done - not much it looks like.

messydesk

They didn't retake the pictures. This is a subtraction of the two. Artifacts you see are because I didn't align them perfectly.

ProofCollection

For some reason, about half the time I have to ask PCGS to update the photos with the post-restoration photos.