Errors: Slab or Not - Comments welcome
keoj
Posts: 980 ✭✭✭
As I've posted a few images of error coins that i have received back, I have a few more that I will post as soon as the they are returned from grading. Errors are not my specialty (not like Trade Dollars!), and valuation can be vexing. I've summited for TPG the ones that I'm confident about but there are a few that are on bubble. On one side, the values are low but certifying them might improve the liquidity to cover the grading cost. Comments encouraged....should I have them graded or leave as is?
Always trying to learn....Keoj
A nice major cud Lincoln.... (and yes, I know the cus #'s)
How about a cud Quarter?
A very minor cud on a 1914-S cent....(at 9:00)
A missing clad layer?
yer
A clipped IKE?
A 1970-D quarter on dime stock
A clipped, OC dime
A
A OC dime...
A 3c nickel with split planchet (and yes, I see the verdigris)
A 
A clipped Peace $
Comments
Regarding the Cud Quarter over the date, I would be afraid it has counting wheel damage which would prevent it from grading.
jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Some are pretty cool. I do think that if that quarter was on dime stock, there wouldn't be enough room for the lettering. Jmo
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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Love that 1975 Cent!
Grade?
I would.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.nice collection there. i doubt a lot of them would be worth slabbing under normal times but this is the era of c19 and i've seen some crazy stuff.
i do question the peace dollar.
the 12-s, generally rim cuds like that aren't big premium coins. there may be a few exceptions.
the barber dime. i don't think that is just o/c. either broadstruck or o/c broadstruck?
while you didn't crop all those images for sharing, i did enlarge them and i do have to say those are some very nice clean and crisp images and quite evenly lit.
Thanks! I have a basic, simple photo set up. Fujifilm with old macro lens (sharp as a tack). Good lighting and macro stand are key!
Nice group of errors.
Nice group of errors. I’d slab the 1975 Lincoln cud and the Barber dime … as long as I thought they’d slab problem-free.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
TrueViews can help but there is some cost as mentioned. The main reason I think TrueViews can help is they can make errors look really nice.
Five years ago, there were very few TrueViews of error coins, and now there's quite a few. I think a reason is that error dealers began to notice they help with prices. Here's my thread from 5 years ago:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006089/error-coin-trueviews
That being said, I think if you had your own, consistent, professional photos, it would help. For example, all the same, size, super sharp, lots of lighting but not too much. @ErrorsOnCoins does a very nice job with his own photos. So does Errors.Mostly on eBay.
If you going the slabbed route i would say the Washington copper layered would be canditate to prove authenticity.
The others no need for slabs unless you use ANACS as its obvious what they are and as the saying goes buying the coin not the slab.
I bought errors in slabs. Years ago I would crack them out to get weights, some I found were inaccurately weighed & authenticated as such. Or I just wanted to free them from their tombs so I could further enjoy them. Now slabs cost a lot more, insured round trip, months of waiting ,inflated fees, potential lost deliveries all means ulcers for me.
These days I usually leave them in their coffins. Great pix are all you need. You have shown us some really neat items from a real error collection, but nothing in this group needs a slab. All are desirable, but I do not think slabbing them would enable you to recoup the added expense. Error collectors know when coins are real deal, plastic is fun, but not necessary for those with error coin production knowledge.
Here's a new to me slab error which I will not crack out as slab details, FW provenance are uniquely important to me in spite of it's missing weight which as I know may or may not have been accurate:
https://www.sullivannumismatics.com/coin/philippines-pcgs-1964-25-centavos-elliptical-clip-ms64-ex-fred-weinberg
I would not slab the 1812 cent - too minor IMO. Nor the '23 Peace dollar - I think that is PMD. Yes on all the others. Cheers, RickO
I’d slab most of them. Sure, they may not be $500+ errors but the slab adds value and liquidity. Also attitudes towards pricing changes frequently. What’s inexpensive today may be expensive tomorrow.
Not a dime planchet. A quarter planchet punched out of dime stock. It would be thinner.
That's a great coin for a great price! I would have picked it up for that price but didn't see it. I did see it in the Heritage Weinberg sale where it was in a lot of 3 and was tempted but it's the only coin I wanted in the lot. This now has 3 forum members on the pedigree line! How great is that?
If I owned it, I personally wouldn't mind cracking it out to get Fred's and my own pedigree on it. Pedigrees for rare coins should transcend the insert, like coins for Brand, Carter, Eliasberg, Pittman, etc.
An interesting thing about the photos from Heritage is that the cert number isn't visible for me. Can you read the cert number?
I was pretty excited to add a FW slab to my coinage archive Zoins. I do not plan to crack it out to weigh it. I would guess its 40% light. Do you have handy link to it when it was in the lot #3 group. I guess that was the auction of Fred's foreign errors that happened without me knowing about it. Silly Me.
Here's the group. The lot description says the buyer is actively responding to offers, so you may want to inform Jon of this.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/232212-64718.s
Sweet ! Thank You for extra details Zoins !
Hopefully I did not jinx delivery of it. I usually remain quiet while purchases are En route.
I thought every closed auction offer came with a repurchase link button at Heritage once item closes.
Struck on Dime Stock is different than being struck on a Dime Planchet. Struck on Dime Stock occurs when quarter size blanks are punched from planchet strip intended for Dimes. In other words the blank will be the diameter of a Quarter but the thickness of a Dime.
Keoj, I went from almost all raw error coins to only certified coins. The process took over twenty years.
20 years ago I thought no way I would spend all that money on plastic. Nowadays I only buy error coins that are slabbed or if raw, then the error must be nice enough to get certified and I will send it in.
I sold off all of my raw error coins that were not nice enough to have certified.
It seems error collectors nowadays prefer slabbed error coins and place on higher value on certification.
IMO, the the two that might be worth grading are the off center Barber dime (some may consider it an uncentered broadstruck, since it is borderline), and the clipped/off center Rosie.
As @LanceNewmanOCC mentioned, that Peace dollar clip is questionable. Reverse and edge pics might help. Regardless, I don’t think it would be worth getting slabbed.
.
i have only watched from a distance but has been interesting to watch the amount of errors in slabs increase just over the past 5-10 years for me. (i am astonished continually to see just how many errors were submitted to anacs long ago, small white holders and if not for the crack-outs, i bet they would be ALL over the marketplace these days)
had i not made the mistake that i thought we had to go grading tier AND error tier together to get the error designation (a MAJOR mistake on my part), i would have submitted probably several hundred errors over the past 10-12 years. a few really belonged in slabs for protection. 30-60% cuds come to mind first. some lovely 11c, 6c etc dual-denoms as well. oh retrospect you beautiful and heartless #&#^#^#.
This is a sad statement IMHO. To me this says error collectors are becoming less numismatically educated, less inquisitive, less discerning, and, frankly, less fun.
Finding a raw error, holding it in your hand, and diagnosing it is often the best part of collecting them! Seems the hobby is getting more dumbed down all the time. ☹️
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I agree the Peace $1 has PMD, but the disk clip above the “L” in Liberty looks legit to me. Not worth a premium though.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
Error collectors are more numismatically educated than most coin collectors, IMO. They have to be.
Error collectors know a coin for what it is but also realize the value of authentication in the marketplace, especially for newer error collectors.
PCGS has priced their error service to limit submissions. $65 and with shipping/TruView/submission fee higher per coin and the time taken for process ... does it increase the value of what you have by that much?
Looking at what you have, I question if any qualify.
If you know a less expensive route, or ANACS then possibly many of them.
DISAGREE, AND THEY’RE BECOMING LESS SO. AND THEY DON’T HAVE TO BE WHEN THE TPGS DO THEIR THINKING FOR THEM.
>
AGREE FOR THE MOST PART. SOME ERROR COLLECTORS ONLY KNOW A COIN FOR WHAT THE TPG SAYS IT IS ON THE SLAB…AND IF IT IS MISATTRIBUTED THEY DON’T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I think it's a good statement in that errors are being recognized for their value, like other coins. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
If you don't like slabs for errors, do you like slabs for non-errors?
Not all the time
Check out this thread!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1073694/the-2021-cent-huge-k3-to-k7-pre-cud-die-crack#latest
Do you feel the same about non-errors in TPG slabs?
I personally think errors in slabs are wonderful, primarily for the TrueViews! I started a thread on this 5 years ago when there were barely any errors with TrueViews and now they are much more prevalent. I think it's a good evolution.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006089/error-coin-trueviews
In addition to the TrueViews, I think it gets people to look at and talk about the error attribution more than they would if it wasn't attributed by a TPG.
I never said I was anti-TPG, but I am admittedly more of a purist. In fact, I told the OP I’d consider slabbing two of his better errors. I’ve owned hundreds of slabbed errors … today I probably have a couple dozen—but hundreds of raw ones. 🙂
I’ve collected errors on and off for 40+ years. Before the internet and TPGing of errors it was rare to find a dealer at shows or B&Ms that knew anything about them. You’d ask “do you have any freaks or oddities?” because if you said error or variety they’d have no idea what you meant. They’d hand you something and say “here, I have no idea what it is.” It could be trash or treasure. As a collector you had to know your stuff! Not so much any more, as TPGing has stolen much of the fun and mystique away from what used to be a very specialized segment of the hobby.
IMO, the TPGs know they can demand high prices for error attribution because many people just don’t want to learn about them or don’t have confidence in their own knowledge. Most errors can be attributed as quickly as grading any normal coin, and faster than most obscure Large Cent varieties, for instance.
It’s ironic that TPG has both raised and lowered the barrier of entry for error collecting. On the one hand, anyone can mindlessly participate because the TPGs are doing everyone’s thinking for them, which has undoubtedly resulted in more buyers … and on the other hand it’s resulted in higher demand for encapsulated error coins, which are more expensive, and consequently marginalize the younger and less-affluent collectors who can only afford the “dreck” some dealers won’t sell.
JMHO.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
So is it that the fun is gone for you because it's harder to cherry pick?
@Zoins
>
Good question … maybe a little … certainly a lot of the fun and mystique of error collecting is gone for me personally, lost forever to TPGs and plastic peddlers (toward whom, BTW, I harbor no ill will since they have to give customers what they want in order to make a profit).
You can say the same for other segments of the hobby as well, e.g. CBH and Lg Cent varieties, etc. It used to be fun IMO to look at as many raw coins as I could, study the minting process, and have knowledge that most others didn’t have—and to teach those who wanted to learn. Today, it seems to me most people don’t care, because if they don’t know something or understand the nuances about a coin series they just send their coin to a TPG so they don’t have to think or study for themselves. Then the dealers just raise their prices to account for the slabbing fees. People that buy this way aren’t really collecting IMO, they’re accumulating. Take DL Hansen for example…I wonder if he knows the difference between Newcomb and Overton…? Or what a VAM is? If he does, I sincerely think that’s great and my hat’s off to him. If he doesn’t, then he’s an accumulator and contributes nothing meaningful to the hobby … he’s like a crazy reality TV show, here today and gone tomorrow, padding dealers’ pockets, which any rich person can do with little effort or passion.
Like I said, I’m a purist at heart. And a little bit of a cynic I guess. I do, however, occasionally encapsulate my coins and purchase TPG coins, but it is usually for the coins’ long-term preservation/protection, not for attribution or resale. If I end up leaving $$$ on the table when/if I sell because of it, I’ll still sleep well at night. And my heirs will never know and won’t care. 🙂
I’ve focused primarily on exonumia for the last ~20 years, as it was one of the few numismatic areas still relatively unaffected by TPGing. As you know though, that is rapidly changing. At some point in the future, when TPGing overtakes and consumes it all and sucks all of the fun out of it for me, I’ll probably leave the hobby … unless there’s still something out there to collect that isn’t being slabbed. 🤷♂️ 😜
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
That's an interesting example. Hansen doesn't collect varieties to my knowledge so I'm not sure how relevant it is for him, the way it is for people that do collect varieties. Of course, we can just ask him since he's on the forums as @DLHansen, along with his dealer @JBatDavidLawrence. Also, @Coinosaurus is hosting an interview on NNP, so that can be another avenue.
Do you feel the same way about Dan O'Dawd's Tyrant Collection?
I will say I don't see either of them known for collecting varieties. At the same time, I think both have been in the hobby for years and have generated a lot of exciting around their large collections that didn't exist before. Now, it's fine if one isn't into large collections, but there are some that gravitate towards them, even if just to watch.
Hopefully one or more of your heirs will inherit the collecting bug before they inherit your collection, so you can share the hobby together
There's always something to collect! One of my big areas is modern So-Called Dollars which no one is creating a catalog for. That would be an interesting area. Some to the following exonumia threads and you'll see a lot of raw items... for now
@Zoins, Yeah okay, I probably should’ve just said “affluent buyers” instead of using a rich buyer by name as a notional example. It doesn’t change my point or opinion though—that TPGs lower the barrier for entry for many deep-pocketed buyers who can accumulate (whether for fun, investment, or status) without needing any numismatic knowledge and whose numismatic legacy is often just dropping a crap ton of money. Sadly for some, buying a rare slabbed coin is no different than mindlessly investing in bullion—it’s only an object, a game, a commodity, not a piece of history with a story.
To each their own though; and if you want to slab all of your SCDs and that makes you happy, more power to you! At least you like to study your acquisitions, which I appreciate.
I simply lament that coin collecting is slowly being overtaken—and segment after segment of the collecting market is being driven—by plastic, which as soon as it entombs something, makes knowledge and research difficult and unnecessary to most. Oh well, that’s my perception anyway and I’ve spent far too much of my time on this thread.
You can have the last word if you want. 🙂
@keoj, sorry we hijacked your thread … that wasn’t my intent. Like I said earlier, nice group of errors overall and I hope that if you decide to slab any that they’ll make you happy.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
You'll be happy with my last (latest) word then
While I like slabs for protection, provenance, and TrueViews, I buy all types. You'll be happy to know out of 8 items I won today, 7 were raw and the only slabbed item was in a details holder! I did recently bid on some top pop SCDs and was blown out of the water, even bidding 7 times the bid of bidder number 3. As Laura says, the new buyers are scary! It's a new market and I may need to go back to my roots with raw exonumia!