@alaura22 said:
Why don't you just show us since you have all the answers
Why? Because I don't want to get into a debate about how they say their service works.
Go and look and learn. Or don't- your choice.
Or is it because there is nothing on the website that says anything about the difference between getting a Green bean or a Gold bean.
You just like to lurk the boards and nitpic other people.
Quote from CAC website:
Many coins that CAC has reviewed, but did not sticker, have been accurately graded by PCGS or NGC. However, CAC stickers only coins that are solid for the grade, often referred to as B quality coins, and those that are considered high-end for the grade, which are often called A quality coins. Those that are accurately graded by PCGS or NGC, but are considered low-end for the grade and often referred to as C quality coins, are not stickered by CAC.
@alaura22 said:
The way I understand CAC. They will green bean a coin that they feel is in the upper 2-3 percent of the grade of the coin.
This is incorrect.
Don't you read what you post
From Coin World: Mysterious CAC gold stickers
What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
@coinandcurrency242 said:
I was going after this one: I could not justify hitting bid again and let it go.... PCGS has it at $450 and it went for almost $700
That’s probably because that coin is the ONLY ONE in that grade with a CAC. For those collectors that want a coin that merits a CAC, and if this three figure area is what their budget allows, I can easily see someone paying a bit less than $700 for it, knowing there are no others in that grade that have a CAC.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@alaura22 , I respectfully disagree with your interpretation. I believe we do agree that coins in a particular grade can be divided into three “categories” - A, B, and C, where “A” coins are well above average for the grade, “B” coins are about average for the grade, and “C” coins, while mostly correctly graded, are typically “below average” for the grade. CAC will sticker coins that they feel “are solid for the grade” (“B” and “A” coins”), as long as they feel the surfaces have not been “messed” with.
With that said, that doesn’t mean that CAC stickers about two thirds of coins submitted. I’ve heard anecdotally that they sticker roughly about 40% or so of the coins submitted, but I cannot prove that. Separately, what I find both interesting and confusing at the same time, is that where I “swim in the middle of the pool” with coins selling for $800 or so up to the high four figures, I often see that only about 10% - 15% of the pop of coins in the grade I look at have a CAC (and even much lower percentages for gold coins, presumably due to “surface issues” that concern CAC). Part of the explanation for the 10% - 15% or so figures is there’s absolutely no doubt the pops in a grade are artificially inflated due to crackout resubmissions.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Quote from CAC website:
Many coins that CAC has reviewed, but did not sticker, have been accurately graded by PCGS or NGC. However, CAC stickers only coins that are solid for the grade, often referred to as B quality coins, and those that are considered high-end for the grade, which are often called A quality coins. Those that are accurately graded by PCGS or NGC, but are considered low-end for the grade and often referred to as C quality coins, are not stickered by CAC.
@alaura22 , I believe what started this “disagreement” a short while ago is you wrote a general broad comment that CAC mainly only stickers coins that are in the top 2% or 3% of the coins within a grade. I believe most of us believe that is not the case. We believe a larger portion than just the top 2% or 3% of coins within a grade are deemed by CAC to be “solid for the grade”, and therefore get stickered.
MAYBE it’s only the top few percent within a grade that the TPG’s assign a “+” grade to?
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@alaura22 said:
The way I understand CAC. They will green bean a coin that they feel is in the upper 2-3 percent of the grade of the coin. If CAC feels the coin is "undergraded" they would give it a gold bean.
Thats the way it was explained to me.
You might look into getting another explanation.
And why is that?
Because the one you were given is less than accurate.
@alaura22 said:
Do you have one, please share with all of us
CAC has a website, you know. I bet they'll explain it to you there.
Why don't you just show us since you have all the answers
It's not top 2 or 3 percent. It's too 60 or 70 percent. Green CAC are A/B Coins when you parse all coins of that grade level into A/B/C buckets.
@alaura22 said:
The way I understand CAC. They will green bean a coin that they feel is in the upper 2-3 percent of the grade of the coin. If CAC feels the coin is "undergraded" they would give it a gold bean.
Thats the way it was explained to me.
You might look into getting another explanation.
And why is that?
Because the one you were given is less than accurate.
@alaura22 said:
Do you have one, please share with all of us
CAC has a website, you know. I bet they'll explain it to you there.
Why don't you just show us since you have all the answers
You wrote “The way I understand CAC. They will green bean a coin that they feel is in the upper 2-3 percent of the grade.”
Perhaps you meant “...the upper 2/3 of the grade.”?
They sticker coins that they feel are A and B (but not C) quality for the grade. That accounts for far more than “2-3 percent of the grade of the coin.”
I know you already know that, but it looks like you wrote something you didn’t mean to write.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@BillJones said:
Those of you who think that this is normal and will go on forever are rising for a fall. I’ve seen it before, several times since the ‘70s, in fact.
I'm holding...And watching.
It's getting weird out there.
I see some stuff that I wouldn't touch going really high so that leads me to believe there is a lot of fresh meat.
In the meantime, I'm saving for a hard coin.
I won once but only after the auction had ended and they had reduced the reserve so my bid could win. They actually called me by phone. But it was a multi coin lot without pictures and when I asked if the lot had a return policy since I haven't seen the coins yet. They declined saying the coins were professionally graded.....which caused me to burst out laughing. i thanked her, politely saying, no thanks, no way, goodbye and hung up. Now, if I had seen the coins in person, it would be a different story. But because I've been dirt poor all my life and just don't get out too far beyond my nest, perhaps Chicago or Milwaukee, seldom St Louis, to view coins in person, I haven't done much bidding. Their policies may have changed since but I really doubt it, don't even care to know. I've bought sight/unseen coins in the past and have been disappointed and have stopped doing so a long time ago. Every so often, I might browse these major coin venues to see if their photography has improved but they haven't. I think they purposely take bad pictures just to screw with people. I can take great pictures in my living room! Why can't these multi million dollar coin businesses do the same?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@Catbert said:
When I bid in an auction, I don’t assume a return privilege!
In this case "...they had reduced the reserve so my bid could win. They actually called me by phone. But it was a multi coin lot without pictures."
He obviously made a low bid taking in consideration he hadn't seen the coins. Most likely those who saw the coins didn't think the reserve was justified.
Seems like a ton of coins are selling for very strong prices. Since a good chunk of these end up on dealer's websites, I wonder how many of these were overpays that will sit in inventory.
Last night, I accidentally overbid by quite a bit for a coin in next weeks Stacks auction. This morning I woke up and happily discovered I had been outbid!
@J2035 said:
Last night, I accidentally overbid by quite a bit for a coin in next weeks Stacks auction. This morning I woke up and happily discovered I had been outbid!
@J2035 said:
Last night, I accidentally overbid by quite a bit for a coin in next weeks Stacks auction. This morning I woke up and happily discovered I had been outbid!
@Catbert said:
When I bid in an auction, I don’t assume a return privilege!
Yes, about the only way you get to return something is if it turns out to be a counterfeit.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@J2035 said:
Last night, I accidentally overbid by quite a bit for a coin in next weeks Stacks auction. This morning I woke up and happily discovered I had been outbid!
I have had that happen a couple of times. One time I messed up and found that I already had that item. Fortunately I was out bid.
You can be thankful for the current, seemingly overheated, auction market.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
My motto....If it's a bad picture....it must not be a good coin to bid.
There's also a PCGS Jeff coin showing with a Trueview. The other photos attached must be a tried attempt by the planted photographer to match that of the TrueView.
Ceased amazed!
Leo
My apologies, not giving a link.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I think I won my lots at pretty reasonable prices today. Of course, 7 items out of 8 were raw while the slabbed one was in a details holder. Viva la raw!
I was lucky as I think one item was something I've been looking for over 10 years after seeing it on an old auction site I can't find any more.
Comments
Why? Because I don't want to get into a debate about how they say their service works.
Go and look and learn. Or don't- your choice.
🍿
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Or is it because there is nothing on the website that says anything about the difference between getting a Green bean or a Gold bean.
You just like to lurk the boards and nitpic other people.
Buy me a bag of popcorn too please
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
This is incorrect.
Quote from CAC website:
Many coins that CAC has reviewed, but did not sticker, have been accurately graded by PCGS or NGC. However, CAC stickers only coins that are solid for the grade, often referred to as B quality coins, and those that are considered high-end for the grade, which are often called A quality coins. Those that are accurately graded by PCGS or NGC, but are considered low-end for the grade and often referred to as C quality coins, are not stickered by CAC.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
bla bla bla..........
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Don't you read what you post
From Coin World: Mysterious CAC gold stickers
What kind of coin gets a CAC gold sticker? CAC founder John Albanese describes it as a coin that could “easily green sticker at the next highest grade level.”
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/mysterious-cac-gold-stickers.html
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
That’s probably because that coin is the ONLY ONE in that grade with a CAC. For those collectors that want a coin that merits a CAC, and if this three figure area is what their budget allows, I can easily see someone paying a bit less than $700 for it, knowing there are no others in that grade that have a CAC.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@alaura22 , I respectfully disagree with your interpretation. I believe we do agree that coins in a particular grade can be divided into three “categories” - A, B, and C, where “A” coins are well above average for the grade, “B” coins are about average for the grade, and “C” coins, while mostly correctly graded, are typically “below average” for the grade. CAC will sticker coins that they feel “are solid for the grade” (“B” and “A” coins”), as long as they feel the surfaces have not been “messed” with.
With that said, that doesn’t mean that CAC stickers about two thirds of coins submitted. I’ve heard anecdotally that they sticker roughly about 40% or so of the coins submitted, but I cannot prove that. Separately, what I find both interesting and confusing at the same time, is that where I “swim in the middle of the pool” with coins selling for $800 or so up to the high four figures, I often see that only about 10% - 15% of the pop of coins in the grade I look at have a CAC (and even much lower percentages for gold coins, presumably due to “surface issues” that concern CAC). Part of the explanation for the 10% - 15% or so figures is there’s absolutely no doubt the pops in a grade are artificially inflated due to crackout resubmissions.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Steve
That's what I said
Quote from CAC website:
Many coins that CAC has reviewed, but did not sticker, have been accurately graded by PCGS or NGC. However, CAC stickers only coins that are solid for the grade, often referred to as B quality coins, and those that are considered high-end for the grade, which are often called A quality coins. Those that are accurately graded by PCGS or NGC, but are considered low-end for the grade and often referred to as C quality coins, are not stickered by CAC.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
@alaura22 , I believe what started this “disagreement” a short while ago is you wrote a general broad comment that CAC mainly only stickers coins that are in the top 2% or 3% of the coins within a grade. I believe most of us believe that is not the case. We believe a larger portion than just the top 2% or 3% of coins within a grade are deemed by CAC to be “solid for the grade”, and therefore get stickered.
MAYBE it’s only the top few percent within a grade that the TPG’s assign a “+” grade to?
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I will look for the article that actually stated the 2%-3%. I know I read it
To be continued..............
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
It's not top 2 or 3 percent. It's too 60 or 70 percent. Green CAC are A/B Coins when you parse all coins of that grade level into A/B/C buckets.
There are numerous JA interviews and articles out there it is not 2or 3%. Maybe that was referring to the incidence of gold?
You wrote “The way I understand CAC. They will green bean a coin that they feel is in the upper 2-3 percent of the grade.”
Perhaps you meant “...the upper 2/3 of the grade.”?
They sticker coins that they feel are A and B (but not C) quality for the grade. That accounts for far more than “2-3 percent of the grade of the coin.”
I know you already know that, but it looks like you wrote something you didn’t mean to write.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm holding...And watching.
It's getting weird out there.
I see some stuff that I wouldn't touch going really high so that leads me to believe there is a lot of fresh meat.
In the meantime, I'm saving for a hard coin.
My Saint Set
I won once but only after the auction had ended and they had reduced the reserve so my bid could win. They actually called me by phone. But it was a multi coin lot without pictures and when I asked if the lot had a return policy since I haven't seen the coins yet. They declined saying the coins were professionally graded.....which caused me to burst out laughing. i thanked her, politely saying, no thanks, no way, goodbye and hung up. Now, if I had seen the coins in person, it would be a different story. But because I've been dirt poor all my life and just don't get out too far beyond my nest, perhaps Chicago or Milwaukee, seldom St Louis, to view coins in person, I haven't done much bidding. Their policies may have changed since but I really doubt it, don't even care to know. I've bought sight/unseen coins in the past and have been disappointed and have stopped doing so a long time ago. Every so often, I might browse these major coin venues to see if their photography has improved but they haven't. I think they purposely take bad pictures just to screw with people. I can take great pictures in my living room! Why can't these multi million dollar coin businesses do the same?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
When I bid in an auction, I don’t assume a return privilege!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
In this case "...they had reduced the reserve so my bid could win. They actually called me by phone. But it was a multi coin lot without pictures."
He obviously made a low bid taking in consideration he hadn't seen the coins. Most likely those who saw the coins didn't think the reserve was justified.
Seems like a ton of coins are selling for very strong prices. Since a good chunk of these end up on dealer's websites, I wonder how many of these were overpays that will sit in inventory.
Last night, I accidentally overbid by quite a bit for a coin in next weeks Stacks auction. This morning I woke up and happily discovered I had been outbid!
In next week's auction? Things are moving fast!
Same thing...
Holy smokes.
Thank you Jesus.
My Saint Set
Yes, about the only way you get to return something is if it turns out to be a counterfeit.
I have had that happen a couple of times. One time I messed up and found that I already had that item. Fortunately I was out bid.
You can be thankful for the current, seemingly overheated, auction market.
My motto....If it's a bad picture....it must not be a good coin to bid.
There's also a PCGS Jeff coin showing with a Trueview. The other photos attached must be a tried attempt by the planted photographer to match that of the TrueView.
Ceased amazed!
Leo
My apologies, not giving a link.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I think I won my lots at pretty reasonable prices today. Of course, 7 items out of 8 were raw while the slabbed one was in a details holder. Viva la raw!
I was lucky as I think one item was something I've been looking for over 10 years after seeing it on an old auction site I can't find any more.
Finally picked one up. Raw colonial. Struck out on the slabbed coins, but held fast to my early valuations. Underbidder often.
Who bought the 1830 AU55+ Bust half
Sell it to Me right meow 🐱
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
GC allows one return, I believe.
I thought you chased 45’s
I picked up 3 this morning, 2-3 cents pieces and a half dime. Spent all my money for a while
Happy to say, it wasn't me
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I chase anything that looks good and is in my price range!
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.