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SCD so undervalued in todays market I almost don’t want to post

ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,229 ✭✭✭✭✭

Recently I saw a thread about SCD hitting 10k. Thinking about it and collecting and trading these pieces for way too long I have to say they are way undervalued. When rare pieces that are more more interesting than a common Morgan sell for the same price. Well that’s a formula for success. If you haven’t thought about collecting them you should! Your thoughts am I right or left lol?

Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com

Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you define what an “SCD” is, I’ll be able to comment. I take it that the acronym has something to do with Seated Dollars, but I have no idea what the “C” is all about.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,310 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think he means so called dollars? I asked the same question when I read it.

    Coin Photographer.

  • AhrensdadAhrensdad Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭

    To the OP-I am not close to this market, so I will certainly differ to you experience and knowledge. With that said, can you further comment on the size of the collector base and how that had influenced prices staying lower than you would have expected while other numismatic items have taken off the last few years. Thanks.

    Successful BST Transactions with: WTCG, Ikenefic, Twincam, InternetJunky, bestday, 1twobits, Geoman x4, Blackhawk, Robb, nederveit, mesquite, sinin1, CommemDude, Gerard, sebrown, Guitarwes, Commoncents05, tychojoe, adriana, SeaEagleCoins, ndgoflo, stone, vikingdude, golfer72, kameo, Scotty1418, Tdec1000, Sportsmoderator1 and many others.


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  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,624 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That sounds like another case of supply vs. demand. They both count.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,686 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2022 6:06AM

    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SCDs just medals of a specific size?

    To be honest, I always thought the name was a little stupid (who exactly was calling them "dollars"?), and the designation arbitrary and needlessly exclusive.

    If a medal or token is a little too small or too large in diameter then it isn't welcome in the SCD field. I always felt that was a bit ridiculous.

    There are many great designs and historic subjects among SCDs. But the same applies to a lot of tokens and medals that don't fit the dimensional requirements.

    Should we also have So-Called Quarters/half dollars, etc.?

  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I respectfully disagree. The interest is just not there, obviously.

    Vplite99
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s the trick. Identifying the currently underpriced niche that’s going to be popular in the near future and buy them up now at Pennie’s on the dollar.

    It’s happened with early half dollars, Mel Wacks’ Camp David counterstamps, 1921 peace dollars (if not temporarily) and many others I’m sure.

    Are SCDs next? Classic commems? Something else? I just continue to collect multiple areas and almost get disappointed when they go up so high I’m priced out.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2022 6:57AM

    I think there is demand.

    Check out this Lesher Dollar which sold for over $34k! This is a F12!

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1167-9876.s

    This has the following provenance from the Adna Wilde Lesher Dollar Census but none is listed in the HA lot description:

    Adna Wilde wrote:
    G. Fitzgerald - H.A. 2/5/2012 - Rodgers

    Of note, the slab insert gives the impression this is Zerbe-5 but this is really Zerbe-13.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The items you collect are undervalued, so more people should think about buying them? Seems like I've read that somewhere else recently. ;)

    Whatever it is, prices that willing buyers and sellers are agreeing on reflect the actual current value.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a collector of SCD's, but I do not feel they are undervalued. When I sold my cousin's Pedley-Ryan for $525 that an inexperienced shop worker with a punch could have made, I think they are doing fine. JMO I have since seen a few going for $700+, whether they sold or not I can't say. Mine was a little more rare as the wording was below the Item Name making it an HK827a.
    Jim



    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2022 7:05AM

    @jesbroken said:
    Not a collector of SCD's, but I do not feel they are undervalued. When I sold my cousin's Pedley-Ryan for $525 that an inexperienced shop worker with a punch could have made, I think they are doing fine. JMO I have since seen a few going for $700+, whether they sold or not I can't say. Mine was a little more rare as the wording was below the Item Name making it an HK827a.
    Jim


    Congrats on the sale!

    I think it helps that PCGS is slabbing these now. Here's an HK-827a from PCGS:

    The one I saw offered for$10k is also a Pedley-Ryan Dollar, HK-828, the only one that has an embossed design.

    I posted it in this thread:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1073517/so-called-dollar-10k-club#latest

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have some SCD's in my collection but I only add ones that have a subject matter that interest me.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2022 7:09AM

    While I think So-Called Dollars have decent demand now, evidenced by the $34k sale above, I think a few things will help.

    • More articles
    • More registry sets

    My guess is that many So-Called Dollar collectors and dealers don't post in common coin venues like CoinWeek or Instagram, and that many also don't maintain PCGS Registry Sets with lots of gorgeous TrueViews.

    So there's still a ways to go, but PCGS slabbing these with TrueViews is a great start that needs to be leveraged into gorgeous Registry Set collections and articles on popular coin venues.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MWallace said:
    I have some SCD's in my collection but I only add ones that have a subject matter that interest me.

    This is a good point. There are so many SCDs cataloged and most people are only interested in a few or certain genres.

    I think it would help to break them up into sub-sets and then have more Set Registries for the subsets that people can focus on completion for.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The exceptions posted here only serve to reinforce my impressions about SCDs.

    The Lesher and Pedley-Ryan medals could just as easily be called Alternate Currency and have a niche of their own, along with Liberty Dollars.

    I don't see any necessary connection or demand due to their status as SCDs.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2022 7:30AM

    OMG!! This HK-1001 sold for $200k!

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Left for so many reasons from the fundamental concept to historical trends to coercive manipulation to empty transference and now even TPG grade envy. (IMHO)

    Is someone now suggesting that the Imprint Type Lesher achieved 34.5k because it is listed as a So-Called $?

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,686 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    OMG!! This HK-1001 sold for $200k!

    I'm sure the connection to its original owner had nothing to do with the price. ;)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 7:36AM

    @JBK said:

    @Zoins said:
    OMG!! This HK-1001 sold for $200k!

    I'm sure the connection to its original owner had nothing to do with the price. ;)

    Probably less than you might think. There are lots of other pieces with JQA pedigree, if not the vast majority, that don’t achieve anywhere near that.

    It’s a rare, large, high grade gold medal. Full-size gold So-Called Dollars generally sell for a lot.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    That sounds like another case of supply vs. demand. They both count.

    Yeah...there is NOTHING in the U.S. coin market that is "undervalued". The market is too big and too mature. There may be things that aren't appreciated, but that is a different thing.

    This comes up all the time with things like classic commems. At 10,000, many have very small mintages. Yet things like 16-D dimes in circ sell for more, even though the population is higher. Supply or demand alone are useless.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SCDs just medals of a specific size?

    To be honest, I always thought the name was a little stupid (who exactly was calling them "dollars"?), and the designation arbitrary and needlessly exclusive.

    If a medal or token is a little too small or too large in diameter then it isn't welcome in the SCD field. I always felt that was a bit ridiculous.

    There are many great designs and historic subjects among SCDs. But the same applies to a lot of tokens and medals that don't fit the dimensional requirements.

    Should we also have So-Called Quarters/half dollars, etc.?

    There are "So-called half dollars". I've never seen an SCQ, but why not?

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The creme de la creme of exonumia???

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Different Strokes for Different Folks"
    Jim

    Saying actually originated from interview with Mohammed Ali in November 1966 before a fight with Cleveland Williams when he answered regarding his punching power.
    "I don't have any [big] punch. I just hit a man so many times he wished I had a punch. I got different strokes for different folks."


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd rather spend my pennies on real coins............... :o

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 12:07PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SCDs just medals of a specific size?

    To be honest, I always thought the name was a little stupid (who exactly was calling them "dollars"?), and the designation arbitrary and needlessly exclusive.

    If a medal or token is a little too small or too large in diameter then it isn't welcome in the SCD field. I always felt that was a bit ridiculous.

    There are many great designs and historic subjects among SCDs. But the same applies to a lot of tokens and medals that don't fit the dimensional requirements.

    Should we also have So-Called Quarters/half dollars, etc.?

    There are "So-called half dollars". I've never seen an SCQ, but why not?

    Because you haven't been following exonumia posts? :(

    For SCHD, I created the following thread and there are more:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1068442/hibler-and-kappen-so-called-half-dollars

    For SCQ, you need to look at the individual threads because they aren't called out as that, until I do so. The following are pieces that I called So-Called Quarters:

    1909 AYPE So-Called Quarter from @Broadstruck:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1024912/anyone-have-any-info-on-a-1909-aype-dog-eaters-token

    1935 California-Pacific International Exposition So-Called Quarter from @ErrorsOnCoins:

    1915 Panama-Pacific International Exposition So-Called Quarter from @Zoins:

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    When you define what an “SCD” is, I’ll be able to comment. I take it that the acronym has something to do with Seated Dollars, but I have no idea what the “C” is all about.

    They are for Seated Coins of Dollar size ;)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 3:51AM

    @alaura22 said:
    I'd rather spend my pennies on real coins............... :o

    Good thing as you can't buy these for pennies any more............... :o

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    "Different Strokes for Different Folks"
    Jim

    Saying actually originated from interview with Mohammed Ali in November 1966 before a fight with Cleveland Williams when he answered regarding his punching power.
    "I don't have any [big] punch. I just hit a man so many times he wished I had a punch. I got different strokes for different folks."

    The main reason I like So-Calleds is that they have a bigger connection to history and events of the country in the past than I get from coins. I like and have coins too, it just that they don't tell me about what was happening in the country, except for the Peace Dollar.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins
    Oh, I didn't say I didn't like them, I do and for the same reason you stated. I just do not feel them to be undervalued. Rather overvalued IMO. I have quite a few, just not a collection. The ones I have were all purchased years ago when they were quite undervalued.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aka he’s going to have a bunch for sale soon 😂

    BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 7:26AM

    @jesbroken said:
    @Zoins
    Oh, I didn't say I didn't like them, I do and for the same reason you stated. I just do not feel them to be undervalued. Rather overvalued IMO. I have quite a few, just not a collection. The ones I have were all purchased years ago when they were quite undervalued.
    Jim

    I think a lot of things that aren't super rare or unique may be overvalued due to Covid.

    So-Called Dollars are probably at the right place unless one or more of the above things I mentioned happen.

  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it’s hard to make a blanket statement such as this. Some SCDs are likely undervalued and, IMO, some are overvalued.

    Like some have mentioned, these medals are largely valued on their own merits, rather than their inclusion in the HK catalogs. A lot of what drives the value is actually the theme, age, die sinker, quality of engraving and striking, etc. This is not to say that most SCD prices aren’t elevated due to their SCD status; many are.

  • ShaunBC5ShaunBC5 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you’re on a coin forum and many people need clarification on what you’re talking about, there might not be a ton of pent up demand.
    Be certain: I’m not knocking SCDs. Just saying things like Morgan dollars are easy to identify and explain and might not be the best reference point.
    Also, it’s hard make YouTube videos about finding super rare SCDs in your pocket change to stoke demand and interest (even if I think those videos are dumb).

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 9:23AM

    @ShaunBC5 said:
    When you’re on a coin forum and many people need clarification on what you’re talking about, there might not be a ton of pent up demand.
    Be certain: I’m not knocking SCDs. Just saying things like Morgan dollars are easy to identify and explain and might not be the best reference point.
    Also, it’s hard make YouTube videos about finding super rare SCDs in your pocket change to stoke demand and interest (even if I think those videos are dumb).

    @BillJones has made the same comment before so I think he knows what it is 😉

    Of course, I’ve never seen people complain about ASE, APE, IHC, SAE, SLQ, WLH. JFK is pretty well-known. Even LSD doesn’t cause confusion!

    One issue is that the term SCD can also represented as SC$ which is what PCGS uses on slabs like S$ and T$. Of course most people say silver dollar, not S$, and maybe that’s @BillJones’s point. Not that he doesn’t know what it is, but that it’s bad to use acronyms?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see the problem on the SCD acronym. It's not on the Forum Acronym FAQ!

    Thanks to @DNADave for requesting it!

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/173367/faq-for-you-acronyms-e-g-ttt-bin-dmpl/p1

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SCDs just medals of a specific size?

    To be honest, I always thought the name was a little stupid (who exactly was calling them "dollars"?), and the designation arbitrary and needlessly exclusive.

    If a medal or token is a little too small or too large in diameter then it isn't welcome in the SCD field. I always felt that was a bit ridiculous.

    There are many great designs and historic subjects among SCDs. But the same applies to a lot of tokens and medals that don't fit the dimensional requirements.

    Should we also have So-Called Quarters/half dollars, etc.?

    There are "So-called half dollars". I've never seen an SCQ, but why not?

    Because you haven't been following exonumia posts? :(

    For SCHD, I created the following thread and there are

    For SHQ, you need to look at the individual threads because they aren't called out as that, until I do so. The following are pieces that I called So-Called Quarters:

    1909 AYPE So-Called Quarter

    SCD and SCHD are commonly referred to and can be slabbed as such. I've just never seen people reference or slab SCQ in a professional numismatic setting. I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that the term has not, too my knowledge, been publicly accepted like the dollars and half dollars.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    I think he means so called dollars? I asked the same question when I read it.

    Susan Canthony Dollars?

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 12:15PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @JBK said:
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SCDs just medals of a specific size?

    To be honest, I always thought the name was a little stupid (who exactly was calling them "dollars"?), and the designation arbitrary and needlessly exclusive.

    If a medal or token is a little too small or too large in diameter then it isn't welcome in the SCD field. I always felt that was a bit ridiculous.

    There are many great designs and historic subjects among SCDs. But the same applies to a lot of tokens and medals that don't fit the dimensional requirements.

    Should we also have So-Called Quarters/half dollars, etc.?

    There are "So-called half dollars". I've never seen an SCQ, but why not?

    Because you haven't been following exonumia posts? :(

    For SCHD, I created the following thread and there are

    For SHQ, you need to look at the individual threads because they aren't called out as that, until I do so. The following are pieces that I called So-Called Quarters:

    1909 AYPE So-Called Quarter

    SCD and SCHD are commonly referred to and can be slabbed as such. I've just never seen people reference or slab SCQ in a professional numismatic setting. I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm saying that the term has not, too my knowledge, been publicly accepted like the dollars and half dollars.

    A reference for SCQ hasn’t been created but an interesting thing is that at least one person is using So-Called Dimes on eBay enough to the point that I search for the term to see what’s available.

    Of course if So-Called Dimes ever become popular with acronyms, we may need to use SC10C for those!

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,394 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For as much as I love exonumia, I've never been into SCDs. I find most of them unappealing.
    The exceptions to me are Lesher Dollars, the Wells Fargo, the Erie Canal, and maybe a couple others.
    I'd love to get the Erie Canal Completion medal in silver one day. Really cool design 😎

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2022 1:46PM

    @DCW said:
    For as much as I love exonumia, I've never been into SCDs. I find most of them unappealing.
    The exceptions to me are Lesher Dollars, the Wells Fargo, the Erie Canal, and maybe a couple others.
    I'd love to get the Erie Canal Completion medal in silver one day. Really cool design 😎

    To each their own, which is what makes collecting so fun! Glad you’re not competing for these 😀

    What I love about So-Called Dollars is their varied designs, artistry, and history. They are the closest to art medals that fit into standard holders with the bonus of being tied directly to historical events. I especially love the designs tied to various expos.

    I collect many other types of exonumia as well but others, while they can be very historic, aren’t generally as artistic.

  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "coin" I keep on my desk is a SCD :)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FrankH said:
    The "coin" I keep on my desk is a SCD :)


    That's a great historic piece! Something like this really draws you in and brings you back to what it was like when fires ripped through cities, something which we thankfully don't have any more!

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭✭✭

    An SCD that is linked to a historically significant period in US history and is aesthetically designed and produced is interesting and relevant IMO.

    As far as undervalued and underappreciated is concerned they can be synonymous.

    Example is the next Fairmont sale coming up on Tues. with Stacks Bowers will be a significant market barometer for circulated rare date gold.

    Curious to see if the dates that rarely come up for sale continue to climb the price ladder. Demand still seems to be vacuuming supply in a "too mature" market.

    IMO some SCD are undervalued and underappreciated, hard to make a general statement on the whole category though.

  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another SCD I have is this one.

    I saw that courthouse torn down in Stockton. Damn shame! Replaced with a REALLY ugly plastic building.

    :s

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are cool. I love my Kansas SCD (sorry, no pics).

    Maybe some more promotion will help the demand side - certainly @coinsarefun is doing her part!

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