Here is a challenge. Explain this oddity.
dcarr
Posts: 8,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
I can answer the "How ?" question.
It is a genuine 1849 Large Cent, over-struck with strange dies, in such a way to preserve the central elements of the coin and the date.
This also partially answers the "What ?" question, but there is probably some more to it.
Then there is:
"Why ?"
"Who ?"
"When ?"
"Where ?"
If the over-strike dies can be identified, that should go a long way towards the explanation.
6
Comments
That's very unique looking - hence the statement - "I've never seen anything like that before"........
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
The rim is pretty stretched out.
It's cool! I want one..
I'm new to this, but isn't this a wrong planchet error? That or it looks like it was misshapen and molded by somebody. Regardless, I like it a lot.
if no one knows it, someone could do a sketch of the design w/o the large cent elements to give a clearer picture.
It looks like one side of the coin was stamped, turned a half turn and then stamped again?
Maybe in a press for spoons or something similar?
I can't even begin to guess. Well, okay, I will take a wild guess:
Looks like some sort of die trial for a commercial product. Instead of using scrap metal, someone used a large cent. Based on the patina and detail of the host coin, I would guess that this happened back in the mid to late 1800s.
It is a really neat piece of exonumia and I have never seen anything like it.
Early April Fool?
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No, it is a real item as pictured, that I bought at a small local coin show this past weekend.
My question to @dcarr is, did you know what it was when you first saw it? Peace Roy
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I'm staring at it and can't figure it out yet, but I love it!
This is super cool and I love the date!
I knew that it was a genuine large cent, in pretty nice grade, that was over-struck with strange dies.
That is still the extent of what I know about it
That is interesting, and, strangely attractive. I have no idea what the over stamp is... Cheers, RickO
I would have bought that in a second. Very unique. I have no idea.
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Someone working in a factory making buttons, buckles, furniture hardware, or something else that involves stamping metal got bored and decided to try the machinery on a cent he had.
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Perhaps the forerunner of the encased cent. Or the beginning of an elaborate love token. 😉🦫🙀
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Looks like an alien is swallowing Miss Liberty - or is that Sigourney Weaver?
I like @PerryHall 's explanation... maybe said bored factory worker was in some secret society and this was their calling token... if there are no reasonable explanations, we can speculate all day long!
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No idea what the over strike is about but it is interesting.
I spent years trying to understand this over strike - knocked about $10k off the value of the die trial.
Can you identify the outer pattern? Inner is obvious, but the outer, I have no idea. At first I thought it was done purposefully, but the more I look at it, I think accidental and one of a kind. JMO
Jim
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I like the idea it was struck twice
wrong, over sized planchet? half dollar?
It has to be aliens. It just has to be. No other explanation.
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My registry sets
A silverware die?
Edit:
With enough searching images I think we would find a silverware pattern that possibly could match.
This is NOT, but could be close?
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I don't know much about old spoons but do they ever have the the designs stamped on both sides?
I picture spoons as mostly having a fancy bit and then smooth behind it.
If there are spoons that are detailed front and back, then I'm thinking we have our answer..😅
One thing I'm pretty sure about, the over struck design isn't from some obscure coin. And what ever they were stamping must've been something that needed some force... like silverware, not just some stamped tin goo gah.
Butter knife.
Those have the designs stamped on both sides.
Well said, I lean toward the flatware pattern stamp also. Since they still make these flatware items today in both sterling and silver plate, it could have been stamped 20 years ago for all we know..
maybe the operater was eating lunch and left the spoon there, fwiw right now
@EXOJUNKIE take a look at this thing. Watcha think?
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Very Cool!
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I was thinking along those lines as well.
The silverware patterns are usually not wide enough for something like this, however.
When I examine the specimen it is apparent that both sides were stamped simultaneously, like a medal. And the dies for both sides are evidently the same basic design. A two-sided stamping would preclude some things, such as furniture hardware or belt buckles, since those sorts of things tend to be uniface, or concave on the back for easier embossing. But these dies are in relief on both sides.
+1 for this explanation. It makes perfect sense.
Some of the explanations are the product of wishful thinking.
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Serving utensils have larger handles
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well i did try to get some programs to do some outline work to use with google lens but lens detects the style of the image as well as the design. ie: paintbrush, stenciling, me horribly tracing the op item in paint.net with layers and white background but after several attempts, tracing was NOT meant to be done with a mouse.
anyone have access or experience doing that CAD? type design line tracing like @burfle23 did with that 1796 1c counterfeit overstruck braided hair large cent, would easily knock both the coins in this thread out. i'd post mine but the efforts are so poor, i won't even give you the chance to mock me. (not that i don't enjoy that friendly banter)
if this was struck in a die type setting, it could have been done with 2 "obverse" dies not intended for their original purpose.
i'd lean (loosely) towards maybe a heated wood punch for like where the acorn would go atop a mirror, headboard, mirror etc. with that bird and the design (only used a billion times in various ways and places) i think can be narrowed down pretty quickly by searching bird/eagle atop xxxxxx
i do believe with some effort and/or experience with this type of motif, a person could actually finish out the design. if i had one of those pens and pad, i could tinker out a rough draft by looking at some comparison images. it isn't impossible but i would go into expecting to see any wording, or even lettering. it is possible but odds are low based on averages.
(something in the back of my mind kept jumping out like a scene from "the bone collector")
edited to add: could be pressing of metal work as well. anyone seen those tin square ceiling pieces? perhaps even copper on the outside of an ornate home. i wouldn't lean towards victorian but stranger things have happened.
I would agree has to be something for some kind of utensil.
for my part i am in no way stating i think it is not some utensil from a ladle or other dining wear piece but just trying to come up with a similar design. it is wide-spread and certainly not rare motif.
this is the closest i've come up with YET.
are the leaves acanthus?
hmm, i'm trying serving trays (sometimes these have removable accessories), door knockers, broken arch pediments with eagle centerpieces, headboard centerpieces and/or posts etc.
edited to add: HA
i found one of these (no bearing on this thread) while fossil hunting. it still had the pin and clip on the back and sharp enough, so i pinned it to my backpack (swiss army given by a friend 20 years ago that went into the military). i've carried more stuff in that backpack to rival what some people carry in their pickup trucks over that period of time.
Not a spoon die. Spoons have a top design and a simpler bottom or back design. This is too much the same on both sides.
Just throwing it out there, maybe someone working at a lamp finial shop made it while working.
It might be about the right size too.
Edited to add: There is also decorative chandelier chain in many styles.
I like the finial theory since the design appears perfectly symmetrical on both sides. I assume it’s a unique creation. It is unfortunate that the stamp can’t be attributed nor can it be determined when it was created.
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That's a real conundrum. I was still trying to find 1970 D Kennedys from last nights interesting thread. Now! I'm searching images of Civil war silverware...OMG! Someone please match the image so I can sleep tonight!
Okay, so the stamped design looks to be higher in grade (newer) compared to the original coin surface and the original coin is showing quite a bit of wear. So based on a typical yet hypothetical standard a One Cent life expectancy in terms of circulation I would put the infusion somewhere between 1880 and 1940.
Obviously this could easily be narrowed down with a match...
do you think it may be a gargoyle instead of an eagle. i just kinda jumped to eagle.
it kinda looks like the full size of whatever it is could be as small as 4 large cents and as large as ?
Close but no cigar. 1 and 7 resemble and 8 has a coin size handle.
What eagle?
It's some kind of ornamental design would be my approach.
Don't laugh but...
Just for giggles.
MAYBE MADE FROM POCKET WATCH FOB DIE
What did the person you got it from have to say about it? Did they know anything?
i contemplated sarcastic fringehead but really, it doesn't feel like a fishy theme but porpoises/dolphins and other fish have been known to accompany these intricate designs. i'd be quite shocked if it were to be a lion.
either that or i'm just:
Finial Jeopardy!