Counterfeit coin of the week

1630Boston

Counterfeit coin of the week
From the NNP and E-Gobrecht, the monthly e-newsletter of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. This is a supplement to the January 2017 edition, featuring information on a counterfeit 1872-S half dollar.
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AUandAG

thanks for the heads up.
bob

johnny9434

Thanks, that's good to know fore sure

fishteeth

if they had kept the date as an 1875 would this have even been detected? scary
looks like they muled an 1875 reverse with an 1872 obverse.

gumby1234

Scary how good counterfeits can be.

WAYNEAS

Thanks for the info.
Knowledge is power.
Wayne

burfle23

I have actually written a few on this one as well, with this one posted by @Zoins here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067087/the-importance-of-varieties-identifying-counterfeit-1872-s-half-dollars#latest

1630Boston

@burfle23 said:
I have actually written a few on this one as well, with this one posted by @Zoins here:

Thanks @burfle23
I missed that, thanks for posting the link
boston

lkenefic

wow! That's frightening! I'm not sure what's worse... this piece, or that there are enough of them out there (this convincing) that we could entertain a thread entitled "Counterfeit Coin of the Week" and have enough material to support it... :-/

ricko

The quality of counterfeits ranges from the ridiculous to the almost perfect - and - perhaps, unknown to anyone, there are some 'perfect' counterfeits out there.... Scary thought indeed. Cheers, RickO

TPRC

That would fool me.

Type2

That is a nice counterfeit. Took a lot of work to almost get it right.

YQQ

Please note: my 2 cents worth about this issue. Ii is not meant to create any hard feelings or discredit, as I believe everyones input was made in good faith and to the best of someone's experience and knowledge.
However, I notice that no weight of the coin is mentioned. Maybe I missed it?
Nor if an XRF test was ever done, or if possible some other test to determine ist age and or composition?
The above text suggests" to be on the lookout for this NEW Counterfit" . does that mean newly made, or newly discovered and it may be an old, perhaps authentic coin? sure looks to me that there are factors amiss to 100% stamp this coin for sure as a fake.
The markers described could simply be, let's say, also a variety?
It would not be the first time someone spreads a rumor about an item because He/she does not have that item????
I am just suggesting applying the benefit of the doubt would be a careful exercise. And exploring the other side, the side that offers the possibility of being perhaps not a fake...... until proven otherwise.
It indicates that Feebay had some sales of it...and perhaps there were other sales and also TPG involvements.
Just saying and asking....??? Perhaps these people were all fooled by the coin???
do you really think so?
_If _it is such an excellent forgery, I believe it needs a lot more real conclusive evidence to prove exactly that.

Raybob15239

Counterfeits are all over the board. Some are getting better and harder to detect and others are utterly ridiculous. I have seen some modern Morgan replicas that look pretty good. Let's not forget the Micro O Morgan contemporary counterfeits that were so good that they fooled TPGs for years. The stuff flooding the market from China is still detectible, but getting better all the time and will destroy the hobby if it is not stopped. Go on to Amazon or Etsy and you can find good counterfeits with ease. These platforms need to stop selling them (or the Feds need to force them to stop selling them) or it will only get worse.

BuffaloIronTail

@gumby1234 said:
Scary how good counterfeits can be.

I definitely concur! This one blows me away.

Pete

1630Boston

@YQQ said:
Please note: my 2 cents worth about this issue.

Some good questions/thoughts .

1630Boston

I know Fred Weinberg could probably shed some light on this subject.
@FredWeinberg

vplite99

This is sickening.

jesbroken

Great post and great information. I tried to look up the Gobrecht Journal for March 2017 to see the remaining diagnostics, but it is not available. Feb 2017 and April 2017 are available but March says NOT FOUND. Does anyone know of all the diagnostics for this coin?
Jimi

jesbroken

It would be great for someone to put together an online counterfeit detection book or pdf that can be updated as new information comes in. Counterfeiting is growing so fast a book would never be done to publish. They could charge a membership fee(not saying it should be done for free). I feel this would be a better alternative to Cherrypicker's Guide to Rare Die Varieties as it would greatly reduce printing costs and perhaps help to get it to its customers in a more timely manner. Might could even publish online cents first, then add nickels, then so on and so on. Just an opinion. Now I love books and have nearly 70 in print and at least that many in pdf/word/kindle/epub(mostly British and early American used coinage), so I would continue to buy reference books as I always have. I've bought several in the last month or so and have no intention of discontinuing doing so.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

just adding some images from the various threads linked together in lieu of bumping an old thread(s).

a burfle contribution

one i found on heritage long ago

rev - obv

authentic below from cf

Type2

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just adding some images from the various threads linked together in lieu of bumping an old thread(s).

a burfle contribution

one i found on heritage long ago

rev - obv

authentic below from cf

You can see that some of it is just a bit off but very hard will definitely get a lot of new buyers and some that are not familiar with this type. But that is very good a little more work and it will be right on target. This is just crazy wow.

burfle23

@YQQ said:
Please note: my 2 cents worth about this issue. Ii is not meant to create any hard feelings or discredit, as I believe everyones input was made in good faith and to the best of someone's experience and knowledge.
However, I notice that no weight of the coin is mentioned. Maybe I missed it?
Nor if an XRF test was ever done, or if possible some other test to determine ist age and or composition?
The above text suggests" to be on the lookout for this NEW Counterfit" . does that mean newly made, or newly discovered and it may be an old, perhaps authentic coin? sure looks to me that there are factors amiss to 100% stamp this coin for sure as a fake.
The markers described could simply be, let's say, also a variety?
It would not be the first time someone spreads a rumor about an item because He/she does not have that item????
I am just suggesting applying the benefit of the doubt would be a careful exercise. And exploring the other side, the side that offers the possibility of being perhaps not a fake...... until proven otherwise.
It indicates that Feebay had some sales of it...and perhaps there were other sales and also TPG involvements.
Just saying and asking....??? Perhaps these people were all fooled by the coin???
do you really think so?
_If _it is such an excellent forgery, I believe it needs a lot more real conclusive evidence to prove exactly that.

I have written several articles on the subject coin and own one in my collection. My Coin Week article actually shows the attribution/ common circulation marks on the several examples we have documented that should only be on one. That along with having an 1872 Philadelphia obverse by die state, an 1875-S reverse also by die state and mint mark size/ location and a reed count from an 1876 coin make it a for sure counterfeit for me. And yes, I have had XRF done at 2 levels along with specific gravity at a top notch testing lab; I like NOT to publish results like that in such an open forum but I can say they didn't match a known genuine example.

burfle23

@Type2 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
just adding some images from the various threads linked together in lieu of bumping an old thread(s).

a burfle contribution

one i found on heritage long ago

rev - obv

authentic below from cf

You can see that some of it is just a bit off but very hard will definitely get a lot of new buyers and some that are not familiar with this type. But that is very good a little more work and it will be right on target. This is just crazy wow.

The top one is mine...

1630Boston

Thanks for your hands on experienced input @burfle23