The Importance of Varieties. Identifying Counterfeit 1872-S Half Dollars
Zoins
Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
If you think you don't need to know your varieties and mint mark locations, think again!
Here's a great article on two certified 1872-S half dollar that were confounding variety researchers, both Jack D. Young and members of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club!
- https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/from-the-dark-corner-an-authenticated-counterfeit-1872-s-half-dollar/
- https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coins-mystery-1872-s-half-dollar-1-page-attribution-guide/
Independently, the coins looked good except for that fact that the mint mark could not be attributed to the 1872-S dollars. Does this mean a new discovery or something fishy? It turns out the mint mark is from an 1875-S coin!
Here are the known 1872-S mintmark locations:
In all:
Jack D. Young wrote:
Discussions with the experts made it clear why I was having issues with this one, as the reverse was all wrong for the date – it was from an 1875-S! Technically, the obverse was from an 1872-P by die state, and the reeding count of the edge was from an 1876!
This coin was finally identified as a counterfeit due to repeating circulation marks on the two specimens.
Jack D. Young wrote:
The use of common circulation marks for identifying struck fakes has been practiced for decades, but it is easier now with the ability to search the internet auction archives and selling venues for similar examples, a huge step forward in counterfeit identification.
If the same host coin is being used for all 3 sides of the coin, it seems some of these coins can only be found of the repeating circulation marks.
Interesting discussion and commentary on the state of counterfeit production.
Would love to hear comments, and especially from @burfle23 and @Coinosaurus!
An interesting question is locating the genuine 1872-S "host coin". Anyone find this?
Comments
Thanks for posting! This one has been a topic of conversation in several forums and publications. I still look at this example in my collection and am surprised by how good it looks "in hand"!
Amazing and scary that it can look that good!
.
if it helps
It does! Thanks!
The thread is quite short, so it took me a while to click through to the LSCC PDF:
Be on the Lookout! New dangerous counterfeit 1872-S Liberty Seated Half
by John Frost, with Dick Osburn and Bill Bugert
And the online reference:
Heritage auction
Nice read
The Heritage reference is my example; coin had an "make offer to owner" option and well, that's another story
...
@Zoins excellent info with my first cup of coffee. Have a good day. Peace Roy
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I'm just imagining that conversation!
Did you have to offer around $700 so the owner wouldn't send it back for the TPG guarantee?
Is it still in the slab?
This one is currently in a 2nd TPG holder as authentic. Very deceptive to anyone not versed in liberty seated half dollars!
I'm better versed after seeing your article and the LSCC announcement!
Thanks for the education
not sure this is the thread to go "there" but after a decade i'm a little perplexed. BUT, i'll ask before i state.
(ask) Do you know of any master-level index for counterfeit detection from 1/2 - $20? are there even updated versions (say 2010 to present) to cover all of us coins? (i leave the currency to the SS for now)
(state) seems with all the knowledge and money floating around, something like this ought to have been tackled by now.
perhaps a series of books is best. 1/2 to 5c, 10c - $1, ($1 gold to $20).
I must ask, is this your question @LanceNewmanOCC or as you indicated @Zoins ?
I posted in another forum my documented list of known counterfeits in genuine TPG holders, from a Massachusetts half cent to seated dollars. I maintain a personal list supported by images of each example which I continue to share in articles in several different coin venues.
"So of course we found other examples of this “nonexistent variety” on an internet selling venue and some sellers I watch there."
What actions can be taken to deal with sellers that are repeatedly caught seller counterfeits?
It should be mentioned that VAMs are assigned for some counterfeits so just because it's a counterfeit doesn't necessarily mean it's a nonexistent variety.
technically, i asked zoins but i just about CCed you and a few others as it is a rather important inquiry and find it to a be a rather large failure that either i don't know the answer and/or because something hasn't been made yet? to cover this arguably most important subject yet.
@Zoins Proper variety identification/ attribution is important in determining value as well! This is an example of just that:
There are some pretty famous Morgan $ counterfeits like that @Zoins !
I love virtual learning.
Thanks for the post @zoins.
Today I am a little wiser than yesterday.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...