Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

EBay to Authenticate all Raw Cards over $750

2456

Comments

  • detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭

    I find nothing that says this applies to graded cards, in fact as Jayman1982 points out, it specifically EXCLUDES graded cards.

    Also, it's not clear to me whether this service is REQUIRED or something that sellers can "qualify" for.

    What am I missing?

  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting this pack sold with a “authenticity guarantee”

    Who’s gonna verify the pack at csg…

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/304318469719?hash=item46dacb5657:g:icAAAOSwlQRh55NC#vi__app-cvip-panel

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm surprised how many think this is a bad idea.

    I personally like it, and would even expect to pay a small fee for such service (as long as it is reasonable).

    As a SELLER, I Just have to ship what I listed directly to CSG. Once CSG gets the card, and I don't accept returns, then I think it is a done deal. No more shenanigans from the buyer filing a SNAD. But worst case scenario eBay makes me take the return, at least I am guaranteed to get the same card I shipped back since the buyer has to send the card back to CSG to confirm it was the original card.

    As a BUYER I get free confirmation/authentication of a the card I bought. I am hoping that CSG will also identify Altered cards and stop the sale from moving any further (unless the seller states it is Altered in their listing). I can see these CSG-Authenticated cards having a slight premium to RAW cards -- similar to how I give a slight premium of Beckett RCR Cards over RAW cards. I do agree they should try to prevent their Label and QR Code from covering any part of the card.

  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭

    It'll take less than a month for a fake or altered card to slip through the cracks at CSG. If the Major League level PSA can't get it right all the time then certainly a Single-A level authenticator will miss a bunch.

    I can only speak as a seller because I haven't purchased a card from ebay in a few years, but I can totally see buyers emailing sellers asking why it's taking so long to receive their cards. Buyers HATE waiting... even during the infamous USPS slowdown at the end of 2020 there were ticked-off buyers messaging me asking where their card was, even though the tracking number showed it left my possession the same day they paid me.

    There WILL be a backlog... there's no way CSG (or anyone else they plan to use) has the people or warehouse space or shipping area ready to take on a task like this. We'll start getting apology emails like PSA did when their backlog was even too big for them.

    When I ship a card worth more than $750, I wrap it like it's going to PSA, and ship it expedited and insured. I sign up to get text alerts from USPS just so I can follow its path until it's delivered. NOW some yahoo at a second-rate "authenticator" is going to unwrap the card (whenever he eventually gets to it) and handle it RAW and expect me to believe they will treat it as well as I would or the buyer would? No thank you...

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would never buy from someone who added a common card to circumvent the system. I would fear there is a reason they are trying so hard not to have the card I am buying authenticated.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is from the Breakout cards video on the fake slabs that were discovered with the perpetrators arrested at the Dallas card show. I honestly would be fooled by these. I am sure we will all learn what to look for - but EBay is deterring this from getting to be a real problem on their platform before it turns off collectors.

    I am a buyer only - have never sold a card on EBay - but I am happy anytime anything is done to get fraud out of the hobby. Collectors will ultimately pay more for their cards with this policy - we are already paying for authentication through grading fees. If these fees were not passed on to us then we would all still be buying raw as the differential would be less than the grading fee.

    If people do not like this service - MySlabs and COMC will get more popular. I bet a lot of collectors will like the piece of mind. I know I will.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @brad31 said:

    This is from the Breakout cards video on the fake slabs that were discovered with the perpetrators arrested at the Dallas card show. I honestly would be fooled by these. I am sure we will all learn what to look for - but EBay is deterring this from getting to be a real problem on their platform before it turns off collectors.

    I am a buyer only - have never sold a card on EBay - but I am happy anytime anything is done to get fraud out of the hobby. Collectors will ultimately pay more for their cards with this policy - we are already paying for authentication through grading fees. If these fees were not passed on to us then we would all still be buying raw as the differential would be less than the grading fee.

    If people do not like this service - MySlabs and COMC will get more popular. I bet a lot of collectors will like the piece of mind. I know I will.

    The same COMC that wait time for them to ship a card is 6-12 months after they collect your money?

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    I am a buyer only - have never sold a card on EBay - but I am happy anytime anything is done to get fraud out of the hobby.

    And you think eBay is going to get this right? Give me a break. There are hundreds of counterfeit cards on eBay right now that are listed as "RP". That means reprint, but many don't know that fact. EBay refuses to make sellers put "reprint" in the listing title or even in the description. Only a fool would think eBay is going to protect you from anything. They're just doing it to charge even more fees to pad their profits. They could care less about anything else.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffcbay said:
    When I ship a card worth more than $750, I wrap it like it's going to PSA, and ship it expedited and insured. I sign up to get text alerts from USPS just so I can follow its path until it's delivered. NOW some yahoo at a second-rate "authenticator" is going to unwrap the card (whenever he eventually gets to it) and handle it RAW and expect me to believe they will treat it as well as I would or the buyer would? No thank you...

    Yes the quality may go down given the way you ship. As a buyer I would rather have my card shipped to me by CSG than some yahoo out of their home. If shipped poorly I don’t have to deal with a return. I won’t have to deal with scotch taped holders or damaged cards.

    This board has great people and sellers. I buy regularly straight from many of you and the community here helps root out anyone who is not an asset to the hobby. EBay has a lot of crappy sellers. Feedback definitely helps weed them out - but not completely. I don’t rate someone poorly if it comes without damage but sometimes it seems lucky that it did. Maybe I should.

    I do agree with the argument that this is overkill. If they left it to $750 and above I think it makes more sense. I have had few problems with EBay over the years - but I think saying we trust the average EBay seller to ship to us over CSG is a stretch.

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭

    @jeffcbay said:
    It'll take less than a month for a fake or altered card to slip through the cracks at CSG. If the Major League level PSA can't get it right all the time then certainly a Single-A level authenticator will miss a bunch.

    I guess that's where the disconnect is. I have full faith in CSG's ability and believe they do have the people, warehouse space and infrastructure for this. This is based on their parent company's existing respect, knowledge, and experience in providing Major-League Level grading services for coins, comics, stamps, paper money, etc... I do not consider them SINGLE-A, so maybe that is why I am totally on board with this move by eBay.

    And what is the end game? Maybe ship to CSG and actually hold it in their warehouse? And then have the ability to sell directly from their warehouse (or "VAULT")? Call it "Offsite Storage" or something like that. Now where have I seen job postings that was talking about offsite storage for a major card authenticator???

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 8:01AM

    I've no "skin in the game" but will be nice to think this could destroy business models of at least some sleazy dealers. Wah Wah Wah eBay has made it more difficult to commit fraud.

    Of course eBay is doing this to grab cash. But those holders do kind of look nice if one can get past having ebay logo on them.

    _No cost to you

    eBay covers all the costs associated with the authentication process for a limited time._

    This means Sellers will be paying an unknown and possible high rate soon a cost they will add a handling for an item. The only winners here are a few collectors who will be saved by CSG possibly detecting a non-authentic item and eBay+CSG who will be collecting the cabbage

    As for CSG well would be great if they became perceived at PSA's level, all collectors and sellers would benefit from the competition. Based on what I've seen though that ain't going to happen. They needed to be more harsh and lower priced than PSA with their grading and expect to takes losses until they have an established reputation.

    However CSG went for fast cash route just like any new services does which means loose standards and price that is on par. They could have set themselves up to challenge PSA instead they have ensured their perception will always be 3rd rate.

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    When I buy a card on eBay now, it takes up to 10 days to receive it, thanks to USPS being so incompetent. How is there going to be a 1-2 day turnaround? Even if you ship it to them via priority mail, it will take 3-5 days for them to receive it. The days of USPS delivering anything in two days are long gone. Then they ship it to the buyer? We're talking at least a week with priority mail and up to two weeks if they send it first class. Who's going to pay all these shipping charges? The seller, of course. And who's going to get their feedback trashed when it takes two weeks to deliver a card? The seller, of course.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 8:09AM

    @DotStore said:

    @jeffcbay said:
    It'll take less than a month for a fake or altered card to slip through the cracks at CSG. If the Major League level PSA can't get it right all the time then certainly a Single-A level authenticator will miss a bunch.

    I guess that's where the disconnect is. I have full faith in CSG's ability and believe they do have the people, warehouse space and infrastructure for this. This is based on their parent company's existing respect, knowledge, and experience in providing Major-League Level grading services for coins, comics, stamps, paper money, etc... I do not consider them SINGLE-A, so maybe that is why I am totally on board with this move by eBay.

    And what is the end game? Maybe ship to CSG and actually hold it in their warehouse? And then have the ability to sell directly from their warehouse (or "VAULT")? Call it "Offsite Storage" or something like that. Now where have I seen job postings that was talking about offsite storage for a major card authenticator???

    CGC TAT's are now close to 1 year of business days. Blackstone ain't hiring just looking to milk what they can before they dump.

    Unlike PSA, CGC refused to stem tide by shuttering down service levels to catch up. Q/C is non-existent. If they had any real competition they would be in trouble. I doubt CSG being same company will do different.

    Those sending stuff for eBay authentication may not be able to sell their items for months, possibly a year, as it piles up to ceiling at CSG. remember Blackstone's goal is to make things look good on a balance sheet then skedaddle.

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    I've no "skin in the game" but will be nice to think this could destroy business models of at least some sleazy dealers. Wah Wah Wah eBay has made it more difficult to commit fraud.

    Nonsense. Any seller who is ripping people off with $250 and up cards won't be selling on eBay for long in the first place. EBay does do some things right. The scammers are shut down in a matter of weeks if they get too many negs from buyers. The ones they need to rein in are the guys selling $10 cards that are reprints or grossly overgraded. Those are the ones that get a ton of negs, but never seem to get tossed from eBay. This deal will do nothing to stop those sellers.

  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭

    If you are a buyer, this works as it is a added layer of protection. As a seller, this layer of 'cost' is covered by ebay for a limited time. Fees, paypal, shipping, and now this, even big sellers will be forced to sell on a different platform. Shows just got a lot more popular.

  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess now all the fake-slab graded cards will be listed at a circumvention $249 red flag price. J/K. Sort of.

  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭

    @miwlvrn said:
    I guess now all the fake-slab graded cards will be listed at a circumvention $249 red flag price. J/K. Sort of.

    The irony is I've always treated CSG as the "fake slabs" LOL

  • Jayman1982Jayman1982 Posts: 467 ✭✭✭

    @DotStore said:
    I'm surprised how many think this is a bad idea.

    PSA has damaged cards during their grading process, I would imagine CSG will damage a comparable amount of cards during their authentication process. I had one order where 15% of the cards were damaged, so yes, I'm pretty sure I hate the idea of some middle man handling my cards before it gets to the buyer.

  • Jayman1982Jayman1982 Posts: 467 ✭✭✭

    Ultimately eBay's buyer guarantee is still in place, if you receive a card and are unhappy with the condition or it has questionable authenticity you can open a case and get a refund, regardless of the seller's refund policy. I don't understand the need for this, except for a future revenue generating scheme on behalf of eBay and their third party bed partners.

    Raw cards have always been buyer beware, why does the whole buying/selling model have to change?

    Also, the sending of graded cards to CSG middlemen in the future is an even a bigger head scratcher and is also solved by eBay's current guarantee. If you have the card in hand and the holder looks suspect, return it. Removing due diligence from the buyers is silly and just enables ignorance to prevail in our hobby.

  • I would be willing to bet that no more than 5 of those packages took more than 3 business days from the time they were actually in the hands of USPS to the time they were delivered, and those 5 were shipped to Hawaii.

    Fastest I've gotten a package from USPS recently is 4 days. Slowest was 11 days. And when you state three business days, that means up to five days. Unless there's a holiday, then you're talking six days. Sorry, USPS is totally incompetent and they're really dragging their feet on first class packages lately.

  • Here's a typical first class package delivery time that I shipped recently. Took them 10 days to deliver a package from RI to FL. Sorry, but that's just incompetence on their part.

    9500112105962008394067

  • So not sure where you live, but to call the USPS incompetent is ridiculous (although from you that's practically a compliment),

    Watch the personal attacks.

  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭

    Interesting that they announce this, yet at the same time there are literally THOUSANDS of counterfeits (Being listed as reprints, even though they are counterfeits) currently up for sale on ebay.

    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @detroitfan2 said:
    This past Saturday I purchased a card and it arrived on Monday.

    Had the same experience myself a few weeks ago. Guy shipped at roughly 2:30 on Saturday, I had the package at 9am on Monday.

  • swish54swish54 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. Too many what-if's flying around. I would like to see it as an option when buying, not forced on the seller. If the buyer wants that extra piece of mind, then they should pay for it.

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not excited. Someone answer this....how are they going to receive and unpack and then repack and ship out the boxes? This isn't a grading company receiving half a million cards in a month. This is a grading company receiving half a million cards in half a million separate packages. I have to believe that there are hundreds of thousands of cards $250 that sell every month ?? How will they possibly handle this volume? Plus the USPS in their area. We all know that Orange County USPS was overwhelmed just with PSA. Can you imagine this type of volume every single month. Is their warehouse Wembley Stadium ?? Plus people entering these packages. OMG.

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    In 20+ years of buying graded cards on eBay, I have only purchased one card that was in a fake PSA holder (had Joe Orlando confirm it since it was a pretty high dollar card for me at the time). So this service is completely worthless to me.

    In the end though, eBay is easier to find cards on than pretty much everywhere else and they don't charge a 20% buyers premium like all the auction houses. So despite disliking this change immensely, if they start applying the "authentication" to graded cards, I will undoubtedly continue to use eBay.

    When eBay shifts this fee over to the sellers, it will push quite a few sellers to other platforms.

    Robb

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 486 ✭✭✭

    It sounds a lot like the Global Shipping Program. I use this option for all of my international shipping. The drawback is that eBay gouges the buyers, charging an extremely high shipping rate for their leg of the transaction. But, I don't get anything returned from overseas.

    Nothing about this authentication program bothers me except, I have stuff at CGC now that has been sitting for months. I don't really want to wait months to get a card from back from CSG. Right now a grade of Authentic seems to do very little for the value of a card. I don't expect that the required service will be reasonably priced.

    If eBay really wanted to do something for the hobby maybe they should remove all of the listed items that are clearly fake from the site.

    If eBay backs CSG it could be bad news for PSA. Maybe PSA wants less attention though.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    If eBay really wanted to do something for the hobby maybe they should remove all of the listed items that are clearly fake from the site.

    They allow all the fake cards, coins, handbags, sneakers and other stuff because removing them would cut into their profits. This is a much better way to do it. Pretend like you care about buyers while making millions on yet another fee.

  • threeofsixthreeofsix Posts: 579 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2022 3:26AM

    I have a question - will a buyer know how many times the card has been authenticated? Example: I buy a PSA graded card on EBay 2022. Sell it in 2023. Buy it in 2024. Sell it in 2025. Buy it again in 2026. In 2027, can I see the record of all of these non-PSA authentications?

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.
    Live long, and prosper.
  • ScoobyDoo2ScoobyDoo2 Posts: 839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ebay needed to clean up from all the fraud in raw card sales.... & class action suits as well.....

  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭

    It's interesting that this program excludes autographed and game used material cards, and those are the modern cards that are most often faked and sold for stupid money.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2022 11:19AM

    The original announcement indicates auto and patch cards will be included in mid 2022 when the amount goes down to $250.

  • swish54swish54 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2022 11:36AM

    After reading the TOC for items not eligible, sounds like if you just offer local pickup, you're item won't qualify regardless of if it sold locally or not.

  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:

    >

    When eBay shifts this fee over to the sellers, it will push quite a few sellers to other platforms.

    Robb

    Sellers will just build that fee amount into their list prices and it will be passed on to the buyers.

    You can find items from the same seller(s) on multiple platforms with different list prices, such that the seller's net price ends up being the same. This is regardless of category, cards or otherwise. If someone has something listed on ebay, amazon and the seller's own company website, all simultaneously for example, the list price can be different in the different locations, but the end result is the same net.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    Sellers will just build that fee amount into their list prices and it will be passed on to the buyers.

    You sound like an eBay rep. Just pass the cost of our ridiculous fees on to the buyer. Doesn't work in the real world. The only way I sell anything on a regular basis on eBay is to undercut sellers with the same item I'm selling. Buyers are cheap and many do a search based on lowest price first. Hard to be the lowest price when eBay constantly adds new fees to their fee strcture.

  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭

    At the end of the day, this will mean more business for myslab, PWCC, auction houses, shows, and etc. Boy, local shows are looking better and better.

    I like to consign more cards with 4SC this year, but I suspect their fee structure will increase.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2022 5:14AM

    Wasn't a personal attack. Just sounded like what they state when you complain about the fees. Lighten up and get that chip off your shoulder.

  • detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭

    @MisterTim1962 said:
    Wasn't a personal attack. Just sounded like what they state when you complain about the fees. Lighten up and get that chip off your shoulder.

    Watch the personal attacks.

  • detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭

    @Jayman1982 said:
    Ultimately eBay's buyer guarantee is still in place, if you receive a card and are unhappy with the condition or it has questionable authenticity you can open a case and get a refund, regardless of the seller's refund policy. I don't understand the need for this, except for a future revenue generating scheme on behalf of eBay and their third party bed partners.

    Raw cards have always been buyer beware, why does the whole buying/selling model have to change?

    Also, the sending of graded cards to CSG middlemen in the future is an even a bigger head scratcher and is also solved by eBay's current guarantee. If you have the card in hand and the holder looks suspect, return it. Removing due diligence from the buyers is silly and just enables ignorance to prevail in our hobby.

    In reading through the email from ebay, it appears that in addition to authenticating the card, the "reviewer" will also determine if the condition of the card meets the condition in the description:

    They even went so far as to define their own grading scale found here: https://pages.ebay.com/cardconditions/

    This is an interesting twist to me.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2022 5:55AM

    Grow up and watch the personal attacks.

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭

    @detroitfan2 said:
    In reading through the email from ebay, it appears that in addition to authenticating the card, the "reviewer" will also determine if the condition of the card meets the condition in the description:

    To me that is one of the best features for this new service. As a SELLER of a RAW card (no Returns), I just need to ship it to CSG, and if they determine it matches my listing, they consider it a FINAL SALE. No need to worry about shady buyers.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    This is an interesting twist to me.

    Their grading standards are totally incorrect. A card in excellent condition should NOT have a crease. EBay has no clue when it comes to grading cards.

  • billwaltonsbeardbillwaltonsbeard Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭

    Reason #924 to ditch Ebay

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MisterTim1962 said:

    This is an interesting twist to me.

    Their grading standards are totally incorrect. A card in excellent condition should NOT have a crease. EBay has no clue when it comes to grading cards.

    INCORRECT.... Excellent is a PSA 5. Surface wrinkles will get a PSA 5 all day! Even a small surface crease can get a PSA 5.

  • GroceryRackPackGroceryRackPack Posts: 3,203 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "For instance, if I ship your $799 Raw legit card as with a business card and link to Instagram to do further business, will they be throwing that stuff out instead of passing it along. And also what if I sent you free extra cards?"

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2022 7:30AM

    INCORRECT.... Excellent is a PSA 5. Surface wrinkles will get a PSA 5 all day! Even a small surface crease can get a PSA 5.

    NO, I'M CORRECT! Read PSA's standard for excellent condition before posting misinformation. They never mention creases until you drop down to vg-ex condition. If your PSA 5 card has a crease, the grader messed up.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    INCORRECT.... Excellent is a PSA 5. Surface wrinkles will get a PSA 5 all day! Even a small surface crease can get a PSA 5.

    And this is why so many people get burned on eBay. Sellers who overgrade their cards because they don't know the actual grading standards.

Sign In or Register to comment.