PCGS order stolen- *Final Update
Sjsharkies
Posts: 16 ✭✭✭
I received my package from PCGS and it was just an empty black pcgs box with no coins in it. Obviously I'm going to call PCGS on Monday but anyone experienced this? Am I just SOL or what? This was my first time sending in coins for grading and they were inherited from my grandfather.
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I had an empty box delivered by UPS mid December. The shipment was coming from ANACS. It has been 5 weeks and ANACS has stopped responding to my contacts.
I am sorry you are going through this. I know what you are feeling. I lost 9 coins in all and some were 1 of 4 and 5.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Take pictures and contact carrier. Sorry but remember from the time the carrier takes possession they’re responsible so it’s not pcgs. Black box, you mean cardboard container or a black pcgs box. I’m not sure about what color boxes they are using but gold was the last color I heard. ( I’m talking to a machine,aren’t I ., dang it)
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Wondering if there is a sticky finger issue with ANACS and PCGS. Carriers always getting blame but maybe no coins were put in the boxes.
I wondered the same thing. I am guessing the package is weighed at some point.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Was the shipping box tampered with?
No way. Too many layers of security.
It’s the carriers.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Should be easy to tell. Those pcgs shipments are taped like crazy so if the package came unadulterated to you then maybe it was a shipping error?
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It was a cardboard box and inside that was a black box with a gold pcgs logo on it. The black box had the security tape cut so it seems pretty obvious this was some shenanigans from the carrier.
I didn't think about it while I was opening it originally but it appears that the corners of the box were retaped with basic clear shipping tape. I didn't have a tough time opening the box by hand. There wasn't any obvious damage to the box.
Well its obvious a lack of security somewhere. I would say the processing plants are where most of the opportunity to steal is. Big plants with very few supervisors and lots of hidden spots. The delivery carrier would have plenty of opportunity to tamper with box but would be foolish to do so as the delivery stations take pictures of every package. The delivery station would check their records and everything would point to carrier. What a world we live in. Can not even mail something without worryng about it being swiped.
Very sorry to hear about the theft. Exact same thing happened recently to a friend in the SF Bay Area (I assume you are based there, based on your handle). At first he assumed PCGS made an honest mistake, but it turned out to be USPS mail theft (inside job). The advice to document carefully (including photos of where the box was retaped) and contact the carrier in addition to contacting PCGS is solid. With persistence, and escalation if necessary, you should eventually recover the market value of the coins, though I know may be of little comfort compared to the sentimental value of the coins.
I recommend contacting Doug Davis with the Cert #s - and also post the Cert #s on here with the description/grades.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Tha is terrible. I am glad I have a PO box where I can open tampered and damaged packaging in front of a USPS employee.
Great idea!
Has anything ever been stolen on it's way to your PO box?
I have had packages with corners torn, like caught in machine ... enough of the items always there ... been at least 15 years since a pilfered or slit and missing item.
They used to wrap the box in cardboard and ship in a larger box.
I’m suggesting they do the larger box thing again. It won’t stop it but will make thieves work more.
Isn’t the PCGS package insured and included in the shipping rates you pay for the return journey?
Latin American Collection
File a police report. Include the certification numbers. Notify the postal inspector. File a claim. They should be insured registered mail right? In a perfect world you'd get market value back. Sorry that this happened.
I get mine shipped to a PO box. The guy who retrieves packages is the leader guy or whatever and his station has a camera at it. I verify everything over a certain amount right then and there, always, with anything.
As the supply chain continues to collapse (re: the looted package graveyards in CA railways) and lawlessness increases (re: this BS), it might be worth considering getting coins graded in person at shows, and buying your coins/bullion anywhere local. I know that doesn't help you now, but maybe it can help moving forward.
Wow... sad to hear. I hate thieves.... So much of it going on right now. As suggested above, file reports with police and Post Office and with Doug Davis.... get as many involved as possible. Cheers, RickO
For anyone this happens to, Please be sure and inspect your package and refuse delivery if it has been tampered with. Pretty sure all PCGS shipments come with signature required.
I hope I'm wrong but you may be Sh*t outta luck. You accepted the package with no mention of damage from the Post Office. Your only hope at this point is probably going to be good will related.
Registered mail has seams marked with USPS stamp (all seams must be stamped). Once you sign for it, the responsibility is yours.
By the way if that package was shipped Registered they would know who tampered with it.
I'm also troubled that coins are shipped in those plastic boxes. NGC will not ship that way for obvious reasons.
Since 1978 I have shipped and received coins from a small Post Office and know the people well. I have never lost packages either way(during covid I had some 3-5 weeks disappearances which finally arrived). I think, like any businesses, ones with hundreds of employees have the possibility of wrong doings occurring, whereas small post offices have the same few employees day by day and less wrong doings occur. Just my opinion. Were I a large shipper/receiver of coins I believe I would at least ship from a small post office and check to see if I could get a post office box there to receive. Not sure what the requirements would be in various states or if it varies.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Signature required means nothing during the Covid-era. The drivers sign it themselves and leave it 90%+ of the time.
@ OP, the PCGS boxes are pretty much impossible to open without cutting - if you easily opened it, it was tampered with.
It seems like this would be covered by PCGS insurance.
I take a video of myself opening every coin package - whether from a dealer, eBay or PCGS - this helps with any necessary investigation and counterclaims (mostly on EBay).
I get my boxes from PCGS and the Post Office a lot of times just slide the box into my Post Office Box. No signature required, no going to the counter, etc. I am talking about packages that are only a couple thousand dollars here and not high end.
But PCGS does pack the plastic box within the cardboard box and that cardboard box is taped well with the fiber reinforced paper tape. I have to use a knife to cut along the seams in order to open it. There is no clear plastic tape anywhere.
I dislike thieves. I would definitely report this theft to the postal inspector. Keep the box and clear tape in tact. It would be great if the postal inspector would recover the box from you and pull fingerprints off that tape!
If the actual shipping box (the securely taped cardboard one), looked perfect, the black plastic PCGS box seal could have been cut, coin removed at PCGS, and the empty black box shipped w/o any coins. Is there PCGS security to prevent that?
"Is there PCGS security to prevent that?"
I would be willing to bet they have cameras everywhere along with other security measures.
I feel bad for everyone this happens to! It's probably a matter of time until it gets me. One thing that REALLY pisses me off is when the shipper (ANACS, PCGS, etc) restricts the shipment and disallow redirect for pick-up at carrier station. I used to be able to hold all of my UPS for pickup at UPS. I would prefer they retrieve my item from their vault and hand it to me rather than have it ride around DC in the back of an unlocked truck. Signature required is a joke (even though they insist that it is enforced).
I don't trust shippers at all. I save up and carry submissions to Baltimore to avoid the USPS!
(l8-)>>
Welp I guess I'll call PCGS in the morning and see if they can send me the mailing receipt which the Post office seems to require to file a claim. I'll probably file a police report too and already filed with Doug Davis website. I'm sure it's all for nothing but I feel like I have to exhaust all options just to keep from blowing my top.
This is what was stolen
PCGS Cert #43711448 1935 50C Boone
PCGS Cert #43711449 1918 50C Lincoln
PCGS Cert #43711450 1932-D 25C
PCGS Cert #43711451 1932-D 25C
PCGS Cert #43711452 1909-S 1C Indian, BN
PCGS Cert #43711453 1917-D 25C Type 1
But despite the incredibly inexpensive digital storage these days, surveillance video is overwritten relatively quickly. So reporting it and driving an internal USPS investigation should not be delayed. And the clear tape possibly has partial fingerprints preserved. The chain of custody of Registered parcels is well documented. They know who all to look into. As it is likely the culprit did this several times, multiple reports from victims should triangulate very quickly on the source.
@Sjsharkies I am sorry that this happened to you.
Some members make good points, the certificate numbers should be reported to Doug Davis so they can be entered into a dealer network database in case the thief goes to sell them.
Also, I reread the thread but didn’t see mention of what service was used for shipping. USPS? UPS? (I’m not sure if PCGS uses different carriers)
@pcgscacgold you had your anacs package tampered with as it was shipped UPS, which seems inferior to USPS registered mail where everyone who touches the package has to sign for a chain of custody. I didn’t know ANACS shipped anything but registered, as my submissions all came back registered and landed at my PO BOX. Maybe there is a threshold where that service is used, as each of my handful of submissions so declared value has been $2000 or more.
@jesbroken makes a great point and I have had a similar experience with my small local post office since I got a box there 10+ Years ago. Recently I had an experience with a damaged registered that I accepted and opened at home. Luckily the coin was still there but members here (one a previous 30 year post office worker) told me I should have opened it in front of the post master and get it documented otherwise I would face an uphill battle proving my case.
I wish you the best of luck being made whole…
It's all about what the people want...
Yes that sucks…. Sorry to hear it,, bet it get worse as money gets pulled from every one that was getting them big checks from the gov. People get use to living a way and don’t want to give it up so they turn to this or worse. 🤞🏼Hopefully something good will happen good luck my friend.
Hoard the keys.
There is no way I would ever have anything of any value delivered to my house - even UPS or FedEx. I have everything sent to my PO Box.
Yes, you can get your UPS and FedEx packages sent to your PO Box. Just have the item delivered to the physical address of the post office and list your box number as a unit number.
There is even a box you can check on your PO Box form where you can request them to put a notice in your box that you have an item from an external carrier.
@LukeMarshall The declared value of the package on the ANACS form was $2400 so I am not sure what amount gets USPS registered. I did not select UPS they did.
@amwldcoin The driver handed me an empty box, I handed it back and said I refused delivery of it. All he kept saying is "Oh no, oh no, oh no". I can still hear it in my head when I think of that night.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
The local police won't be able to do anything with a postal theft. They lack jurisdiction. You will need to file a theft report with the postal inspector. Not the post office, not the post master, but the postal inspector.
I am sure this was not a registered package given the information. I suspect this was a priority package and insured through PCGS. Doesn't PCGS have to file the loss claim for insurance?
When a coin is reported stolen, does the PCGS Cert Verification warn potential buyers?
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To the OP, I empathize with the rage, frustration, and sense of powerlessness from an incident like this. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a friend in the SF Bay Area had the exact same thing happen (PCGS black box arrived empty), and I also lost an incoming PCGS package to USPS theft (slightly different circumstances).
You are doing the right thing in contacting PCGS, Doug Davis, and USPS. Meticulous documentation, including photos of the outer box where it was re-taped, is critical. And so is contacting USPIS, with as much detail and documentation as possible. If they pursue your case they will do so rigorously.
Unfortunately, there seems to be at least one bad apple in the USPS supply chain between Newport Beach and the SF Bay Area. The more of these incidents that are reported to USPIS, the more likely that they will be able to identify and prosecute the culprit(s).
On the topic of insurance, when I lost my PCGS package I learned that they use their own third-party insurance, and their claims department is totally separate from customer service. I will spare the gory details, but it took several contacts and months of waiting to get my claim paid, but it eventually did come through.
a few years ago, I bought a coin on eBay and tried to put in my registry set (about $400 then). the cert was not valid - I took pictures of coin and sent to customer service, after a few weeks when I called again, they said it was reported stolen and return for refund from where I got it (and tell them to return, .... )
now I check verification on purchases of valuable coins.
I think all usps asked is the tracking number and the prove of value.
How do you file a claim with inspector? I went to the inspector site and it points to usps site to file a claim which will not allow upload video to show someone stole it.
My boxes from PCGS have been shipped Priority Mail 2- Day, USPS Signature Tracking. Since the start of Covid the packages have just been left on the porch with no attempt to get a signature. Wouldn't the Post Office be at risk by not getting a signature? I've wondered what would happen if the package disappeared without getting one.
Presumably PCGS "self-insures"? Has anyone reding this made a claim after receiving an empty box? It would be interesting to hear about failure or success stories.
Thanks. It looks like the uspis just directs you to the regular usps claim page. I'm gonna start with calling pcgs in the morning and go from there. I wonder if the package is weighed along the way cause obviously at some point it got lighter. Unfortunately as noob to grading nothing stood out to me until I opened the box
When thieves brake in to box cars in California and steal everything of value and there is a DA that is soft on crime your up a creek. And this kinda stuff goes on everywhere now days
Lafayette Grading Set
@Sjsharkies
When you received it did you pick it up at the post office, sign for it at your home/work or left on your front porch?
My mind tells me that the nunber of incidents is overwhelming, and I really doubt that they devote the necessary/ appropriate resources to investigate. Seems like they go through the motions, close the investigation and let their insurance oeople process it. I rarely hear that the postal inspectiors solve cases of mail theft within the postal system.
(l8-)>>
As others have said, I would think this is PCGS’s problem since they insured the return shipping and are technically the paying client for the shipment. That said, does the fact you accepted the package release PCGS from any liability?
It would not be a claim. It would be a report of a crime. I found this on the internet: https://www.uspis.gov/report
I am not much for just filling out a form without talking to someone. I would either call the number on that page or if I wanted more personal I would talk to the local post office and ask for the number of the inspector for your area... or at least have the post master call them to call you back.
The small cardboard box that contains the plastic box and your coins is TOO recognizable. PCGS needs to reevaluate their shipping methods. Our coins are at risk in this small box.
I been there already. That link will point you back to USPS claim file link. https://usps.force.com/emailus/s/
You will arrive at USPS/Email Us.
To begin a report for ALL types of mail pieces, select the WHERE IS MY PACKAGE icon on the page.
A form will appear. Fill out the entire form and provide as much information as possible.
The information provided will generate a report.
Leave uspis.gov and begin report