NEWP Late Die State CBH with a story or two
pursuitofliberty
Posts: 7,109 ✭✭✭✭✭
Picked up several coins from the Founding Fathers Collection that went off at HA right before Christmas. The package showed up yesterday and after a long siesta after work, I have been struggling tonight trying to get some decent images.
These came out pretty good and so I'll share.
Overall, 1817 seems to be a pretty tough date to find, from my somewhat limited experience in chasing Bust Halves, and this, to me, is one of the more interesting Die Marriages for the date, for a couple of reasons.
First, the Obverse Die is the 181.7 "Punctuated Date" ... however as a very late die state, this example has lost the original "punctuation" die dot between the second 1 and the 7. The coin has started to develop the second die dot, a bit lower and closer to the 7 than the original one, although the raised area there is faint. Close study of this coin and the few images of others I found from this state lead me to believe this is from Die rust, which can been seen most prominently on the drapery at the Bust and lower curl.
Another interesting fact about the Die Marriage is that the Reverse Die is the die used for the famous 1817/4 examples (with a different Obverse Die, of course!).
Seeing the prohibitive cost of any example of an 1817/4, this example might the closest I ever get to ownership ... hmmmm ... so maybe I own a half of a 17/4 Half?! 
Feel free to GTG, and post your 1817's, especially the Punctuated Date, or a 17/4 if you own one.
And without further ado ... one of the newest girls to grace my collection.
1817 O-103a (or possibly considered the 'b')
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Comments
Very coolAU50. Pic just to show where the dot is courtesy of P.C.G.S.
Hoard the keys.
@pursuitofliberty... That is a nice coin and superb pictures - really great detail. Cheers, RickO
Very cool Todd 👏🏼
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Nice punctuated date. I’ll guess 53-55. That Founding Fathers auction had some nice halves, I was out bid on every one I took a shot at. Nice pickup.
Beautiful O.103a, Todd. Great pics, too! I won’t guess the grade as I’m already aware of it. But I love the crust on her. From what I’ve seen, she fits in perfectly with the rest of your bust halves.
Congrats on an excellent, early date newp!
Nice!
Tough to grade....let's imagine it has blingy luster not showing through in these pics..55
If luster is as shown..50
Thanks guys!
@Type2 Good picture of where the punctuated date dot is supposed to be. As stated, mine is gone from that point. The new one, as it were, is pretty much straight across half way between the original and the stem of the 7.
Thanks Jay ... I think you are right, the images I took don't really show the luster well. In hand I think it is accurately graded, and fairly original, something I consider worthwhile.
I also think I need to redo the lighting setup I am using.
It is a PCGS AU55 with a green bean
Heritage images
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Nice coin with a lot of meat left on it!
It appears to be somewhat dirty...I know of someone on the boards who could clean it up for your nice and brilliant...
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Here is my 1817, it is an 1817/3-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Nice 17/3 Tom!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Yes, perhaps we could send them in for a volume discount?
Seriously, though, over the years I have had two well-known dealers repeatedly attempt to buy this 1817/3 from me and both have stated they could clean it up enough to bump it into a higher graded holder. That was their only motivation; strip it and flip it to an end user for a profit.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
To the first part, a laugh ...
... to the second, a cry.
.
For the newb, to each their own. But I doubt his thin skin and cock-sure attitude will fly here.
For yours, I believe you, and know it gets done ... over and over and over again. I'm glad she's in your care.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
The reverse is kind of mesmerizing..
The way the top of United has nearly eroded away, but nearby the olive leaves and arrowheads are sharp.. too cool!
If I recall, the 17/4 was the first use of the reverse die?
Just another great year for interesting CBH varieties... actually, when you add it all up, it's hands down THE greatest 👍
Come on folks, the OP's coin is just too cool not to comment more and share. Heck, we would have far more replies if this was the typical troll-newbie-alt parking lot find argument thread (and we appear to have dozens of them daily, so everyone should have their fill by now) than with something truly neat.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Beautiful coin, o.p,, I love that gray dirty toning. Interesting about the dot disappearing in later die states, due to wear I guess. I just have a "plain vanilla" 1817 but it's still a pretty nice looking coin so I'll post it:
I love this die marriage. Todd's coin is a great example of the later die state. In the perfect grade for his mid-AU set.
Thanks for the informative write-up, too. Wonderful history. I laughed at the 17/4 half. That's about as close as either one of us will get to the real 17/4.
Here's my O.103, with the dot. I bought this from a forum member eight years ago. Gotta love BST.
Lance.
great post and very informative ... great examples provided. Congrats on your acquisition.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Downtown1974, Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
i love it when the 1814's have a real nice clash strike thrus on them
Would restoration work here?
Beautiful coins.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I wouldn't want to see @kaz's coin messed up with restoration. It has a nice, wholesome look. Any attempt at treating it to remove or lessen the spots would probably fail and would affect the coin's genuine appearance.
Lance.
Why in the world would @kaz's coin need to be "restored"?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Restoration ?!?!? 🤯
Its amazing that there are any original coins left..
Thanks @TomB and @kaz for reviving this, and giving it a little more life. I was gone all week working but saw email notifications of new posts. Fun to come home and read through them all.
I think we know my take on 99% of "restorations", especially when it comes to Busties.
Just say NO!
Thankfully, Lance's retoned nicely.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I was reminded of this thread yesterday by the OP so I just had to come back to re-visit it….and I’m sure glad I did.
Lovely additions @TomB, @kaz and @lkeigwin
Here is my 1817 O.103….certainly not as attractive as Lance’s beautifully toned example, but I love her originality!
Dave