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What is the Allure?
pmh1nic
Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
Let me start by saying to each their own. Everyone is free to collect whatever they want.
That out of the way I’d really like to understand the allure of collecting a series of coins (Morgan’s, Franklin’s, Washington quarters, etc. ) that are all BU and the same grade?
I recently finished a set of Franklins. They all 64 or 65 but other than a few BU coins most have some measure of toning that differentiates them. From this
To this
To this
What is the attraction to looking at a row of coins that are essentially the same with different dates…
I’d add more but you get my point. Enlighten me.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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Because they are "ricko approved".
More constructively, it is not considered polite to criticize what people collect.
I could make the same type of critique, like
"Why do you collect all the same type, but different dates, when you could collect all different types?"
There are also people who collect different die pairs or die states from the same date-mint mark.
The answer is because they like it.
They don't have to add on a complicated rationalization....
You could even ask,
"Why do some people like black and white movies, when movies in color are available?"
The answer is that color is just one component of a movie.
It's all about the challenge. And the more difficult the set, the more gratifying the completion. Anyone who has ever tried to fill an album gets it. Granted, filling an album with white uncirculated Franklin Half Dollars these days would be a very quick and simple task for anyone with an internet connection and a credit card. But to a 10 year old kid in 1970 - like I was - it would have been a huge challenge, even in circulated grades, and completing it would have been a huge accomplishment.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Some people like matched sets (not just of coins).
Thrill of the hunt, like any hobby.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
In my opinion, series collecting can get boring. This is why type collecting is so popular. As the old saying goes "Variety is the spice of life."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I did the same with Peace $... a fairly easy set to accomplish in medium grades of MS64-66. With enough money in your pocket you could do it in 1 day at 1 show.
So I decided to add toning to the mix... well I didnt know back then (20+ yrs ago) how difficult and expensive it would make this project but also how it would turn it into a lifelong passion.
20 yrs later I have a complete A set in MS and an almost complete MS B set of toners + lots and lots of extras... and I dont own a single blast white Peace $.
So for me it was all about the hunt... and it still is.
Yes, Ricko would be happy.
As for polite, I don’t think criticism in itself is impolite but rather how that criticism is structured dictates whether it’s impolite or not. I didn’t say collecting all “white” coins is stupid, a waste of time and money or something only a one dimensional collector would do. Folks have their likes and dislikes. I’m just trying to understand what folks find appealing in collecting a series of coins that are essentially the same from one date to the next.
No one owes me an explanation but I’m trying to see things from their perspective and the motivation that drives them. Maybe it is the thrill of the hunt. I understand that aspect of collecting since there is a similar thrill in trying to find just the right toned coin. Maybe at the end of the hunt there is the same satisfaction. I look at my set of Franklins and ever coin is somewhat unique. I closely examine each coin to enjoy their uniqueness. Another person opens their album and there are 30, 40 or 50 coins that are high grade BU and the sight of that collection is what floats their boat. Maybe I need to experience it to get it. Maybe for them it’s more about the collection versus the individual coins. I don’t know and asked the question to get a clear understanding of the why.
Like with many endeavors of collecting there is a certain amount of OCD involved. For some it involves completing a series no matter what, for others it is a matched set of grade or perhaps color or non-color. The closest I've been to collecting OCD is in terms of completion of sets. However, I know it's unlikely that I'll be able to complete all of them anyway due to cost.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
My preference is to see the coin in as minted condition, without environmental damage. I consider tarnish to be a negative on my coins. That being said, collect what appeals to you... not what others deem desirable. Cheers, RickO
And your method of collecting makes no sense to many of us.
And to non-collectiors, the whole idea of collecting in any manner at all makes no sense.
I think it satisfies a deep psychological need to organize and be in total control of something in their lives.
I wonder what it would be like if they didn’t put dates on the coins and if they never changed the design. Would people still be motivated to collect them?
Mr_Spud
I think for some series, a certain "look" is what collectors like to look for, like in the Barber series. While a series of blast white Washingtons can appear boring to some, a nice set of attractive set of mid-grade circulated Barbers is something else altogether.
I like toned coins just as much as anyone, but I'm also working on a graded set of blast white MS-67 silver Roosevelt dimes. Boring? Maybe. Like others have said, it's the thrill of the hunt.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I also prefer toned coins, but to answer your question, I suspect the reason is the intersection of: an aversion to toned coins, desire to complete a set, and enjoyment of the thrill of the hunt.
Of course you did preface your post "by saying to each their own. Everyone is free to collect whatever they want."
I think we can all agree that this is an essential right that all of us share. I can appreciate the type collector mindset because that's kinda how I started...but then, I saw Whitman folder of Barber quarters that had maybe 20 coins in it, and at like $3 each I thought "this could be fun" - Now 18 years later I'm enjoying collecting them and they're sort of a favorite of mine. Like @ElmerFusterpuck said "a nice set of attractive set of mid-grade circulated Barbers is something else altogether".
I love to look at some of my sets, but I've also collected and assembled a few sets and then sold them, only to build or complete other sets. And now I've come full circle and have started to assemble a type set again.
I think as long as I'm keeping it fun that whatever I collect, it's good for me. Like @MrSpud said: "I think it satisfies a deep psychological need to organize and be in total control of something in their lives." That's what my collecting habit/hobby does for me.
Only the error collectors would still be happy... 🤠
With me, I collected Large Cents, gem late dates. Each was different in color, as the coppers toned differently, all gorgeous. However, oddly enough, I got more enjoyment from my VG to XF Large Cents in my albums. Something about the wear, and thinking about the history of the coins. I wondered who's hands they had passed through. I guess, for me, I realized that the old circulated coins had a more interesting past. Don't get me wrong, there is no coin (forgive me rainbow Morgan guys) more beautiful than a gem Large Cent, but the history is not as interesting as that of a low value VF.
I can see where you’re coming from with respect to type collecting but I don’t get it as far as collecting a whole series, especially in BU where it’s basically the same look year after year after year. When you have a series that basically doesn’t change for 25 years and they are all BU with the only distinguishing characteristic is the date. At that point the individual coins have no allure IMHO. On the other hand maybe it’s the big picture that’s the allure.
I must have missed the poll. Can you provide a link?
So I gather from your remarks that you’re one of those series collectors that is into collecting 50 BU coins that you can’t tell apart except for the date and mint mark. What allure does that have for you? Do you spread out the collect, take five steps back and appreciate the brilliance?
There's still no point in collecting a toned date set. If you are collecting for toning pattern, it shouldn't matter if they were all the same date.
You have an irrational preference and you are arguing against other people's irrational preference.
Perhaps if you stepped back and stopped looking at it from solely your perspective you could get past your "they all look the same" issue. Some people like to collect sets. For them, having them all is what matters, and the fact they are all similar is irrelevant. Not everyone has the same reasons or likes. I mostly collect type, but i have some sets and there is a satisfaction for me to completing the entire set in a similar look and eye appeal.
I find zero allure to your second and third toned Franklins and have a dirty look to my eyes. I would prefer blast white Franklin’s to those. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, I'm enjoying trying to fill my albums... I'm not much worried about 'matching BU' coins, but decent circulated examples. My morgan albums, which are ~3/4 full, have some MS coins, some AU, and a nice mix of VG-VF that I got from LCS. When I start paying real money for keys and semi-keys, I'll probably still be looking for "affordable, solid for the grade" circs, and not try to match the grade with other coins, or look for particular toning.
I've been putting together a short set of walking liberty halves for the last year. I'm 3 away from completing it. Need 1941-43 S mint coins in preferably MS65. Since I know that the biggest issue for these 3 particular coins is strike I'm biding my time to find one with a superior strike over one with amazing luster or color. For the more common date commonly well struck issues I focus on above average eye appeal. So I may go for a nicely toned fully stuck eye appealing example of those dates since they aren't usually (in my eyes) limited by strike. Thats my logic.
Obviously they won't all match in color and some with be blast white, some toned and others possibly a little grungy but way better struck than their weakly struck counterparts. I'm simply picking what I find to be the most premium quality examples whether that's due to their eye appeal or above average strike for the date and mint mark remains to be seen. Just so long as they are above average for the grade and appeal to me.
I dont know if I would want a totally blast white set personally but I can absolutely see why that would appeal to another collector.
Everyone has different preferences. Some people like older homes with "character", some people like brand new homes.
IMO toned coins would fall into the "having character" camp, but I also like blast white coins.
My fav are the best of both worlds, rim toned coins.
When I went to my first coin show as an adult, I was soooo unimpressed to see a ton of MS Morgan Dollars in almost ever dealer case that when I got home, I made a plan to sell off all all my Morgan dollars, which I did
The purpose of this thread is to help me and others “step back and stop looking at it from solely my perspective”. As far as getting passed “they all look the same”, how do I get passed the fact that they all look the same? Are you saying three blast “white MS-65 Morgan’s or Franklins or Walkers don’t look the same?
Who said anything about a toning pattern? Who said anything about the same date? Is there a “jmlanzaf” interpreter on the forum?
Dirty is in the eyes of the beholder. But you like the first one. You’re making progress
You mentioned toning - or don't you read your own posts. The whole point of this thread was for us (allegedly) to explain to you why someone would collect a blast white date set instead of your colorful set of Franklins. [Maybe you need an interpreter for yourself.] You claimed that the toning "differentiates" your otherwise identical (but for the date) Franklins.
I'M the one who mentioned them being the same date. Let me add more words to make it clearer: If you are collecting for toning pattern, you wouldn't need a full date "set" of Franklins, you could simply collect colorful Franklins that were all of the same date.
You cannot claim to want someone to explain to you their preference and then argue with any explanation. It is no more rational or reasonable to want a toned date set of Franklins than a blast white set. IT IS JUST YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE OR BIAS. And someone wanting a blast white date set is EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU: expressing their own personal preference/bias. And I don't want a single Franklin other than as bullion in my collection FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASON that you want a toned date set: it is MY personal preference or bias.
It is really just that simple.
I’m in the middle of changing how I collect ( study here has been good. I’ve got more books and take some time buying coins).
For a while I followed the herd which is fine, I have many nice coins. Then ase’s and mint stuff (until this year and with the new reverse a chance to stop) The shipping , payment and quality problems helped me deside.
I bought a nice Roosie dime album and am just going to fill it with proof, ms. and the best circulating examples I can. Toning welcome.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Are you sure?
Let me help you. My question was who said anything about "toning pattern". No where in any of my post did I use the term "toning pattern". So no interpreter needed on my end accept to decipher the words you imagine someone said.
And why did you mention same date? What does that have to do with a conversation about collecting a set of BU coins with different dates?
I haven't argued with an "explanation". I've pushed back on someone trying to put words in my mouth (toning pattern) and interjecting things that have nothing to do with the subject (same date).
Quite a few individuals have chimed in on their preferences and why those coins are their preferences. I haven't argued with any of them. In fact I've "liked" the comments and appreciate their input.
And don't pull the "personal preference" baloney. We've pretty much conceded that collecting is based on personal preference but that preference is based in some articulable aspect of the coins we collect. I'm asking for those that collect those sets of BU, high grade coins to articulate what they find appealing.
Are you having a sale on BU Morgans this month?
I've come to appreciate blast white "as minted" coins, particularly Walkers, and of course, my treasured deeply toned proofs....I enjoy all of them, and can see the beauty in them. I think what really gets me excited is when I see a particular coin with what I consider to be the right "look", and in my mind I have that all sorted out...but that's another discussion.
I hope no one misunderstands that I'm saying I don't appreciate a beautiful BU, high grade coin. That's not the case. I'm wowed by the toned Barber signature coin you have and would be just as wowed by a MS-65 BU version. My "issue" is the series collection of all BU high grade coins. Maybe it's the challenge (as some have mentioned), maybe it's the step back and seeing the collection as a whole versus the individual coins (I've never had the opportunity).
I like pouring over individual coins with a loop or microscope to see the various aspects that make each coin unique. Maybe that's not something that interest all collectors. Again, to each their own.
The mid-20th century are not hard to find in blast white.
Oh dear God...
I'M THE ONE WHO MENTIONED THE SAME DATE. Because if toning is important to you, why does the date have to matter? But it does. Why? BECAUSE IT IS YOUR PREFERENCE/BIAS.
Preference/bias need not be rational or based on anything other than "I like".
No, I don't have any BU Morgans for sale. I can find as many white ones or colorful ones as you would like, however.
You really don't get it. I haven't once expressed a preference for BU coins at all. What I've expressed more than anything is a disdain for dates.
He also doesn't like your collection.
Well, to be fair- just three times. But who's counting?
64
Seems fair to ask for explanations, and then compare and contrast opinions... I mean, that's a discussion, right?
It's all a matter of degree. Some people like to banter, some like to pick nits, some will NEVER ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG.
Me, I like learning how things work, and I like snappy puns.
Come come now. Variety is the spice of life. Simple. Does not matter one whit that we like different things. It’s the comradeship that counts.
For the very same reason that you chose to purchase environmentally damaged coins, because the collector likes that look.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Did you know I don't like to collect by date?
[Note: I also don't care if people do! Nor do I ask them to justify their preference.]
No! Really????
Sometimes I think that the way the hobby is evolving that toned Chuck-e-cheese tokens or PCGS graded tax tokens in MS-65 will be the standard of all value in 20 years. I did promise everyone 20 years ago that the availability of coins on the net would revolutionize the ways that coins are traded, collected, and valued.
I think some of the most fun in US coin collecting is seeking nice attractive circulating clad coins. Obviously this isn't for everyone but it is certainly challenging and no amount of money or duckduckgoing is going to make it easier.
Of course fewer collect by date now days but assembling complete sets of coins that vary by date and mint is still a laudable goal. Finding nice well matched coins at reasonable prices is still a challenge. There's pleasure derived from both assembling and having complete sets for me.
There you go again. I didn't say I liked every comment. And I did better on Ricko's with "I get where you are coming from".
And yes, you said "same date" and it has ZERO bearing on the discussion so why did you mention it? We're taking about sets of coins (Morgans, Franklins, Peace Dollars, etc.) where the only differences are dates and mint marks. How did you end up going of on a tangent about coins with the same date?
Everyone else understands my point about the dates. The fact that you don't is concerning.
I like to collect interesting coins. Some of them are white, some of them are toned, some of them are in series, and some of them are just random acquisitions. I don't really care (or sometimes understand) what other people collect and I don't really care if they like what I collect. That seems to cover all the bases.
I collect sets and I like toning. I have toned sets and blast white sets. My preference depends on how they are displayed (which is also a reflection of the cost of each coin). When the coins are displayed in an album I think they look great when they are well-matched. My Roosie set was built that way. I would have no interest in a slabbed collection of blast white coins, though, as when I am looking at them all separately, I value the individuality more. I have a collection of Lincolns in an album. The early ones are mostly VG-VF and then progressing through to AU in the 1930s. After 1934 I want them all RD and that line was chosen based on when the page ends. I think it is very pleasing to see similar coins together. I also have a collection of slabbed toned Lincolns. With that set I like different patterns and colors and I have BN and RB coins.