New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
That's an MS61? It would be interesting to hear from CRO or someone with knowledge to explain that grading. I see in CoinFacts that there are no PCGS graded mint state coins.
Anyway, very cool story. Thank you for posting.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
Do you know what happened to the market? Did some collectors drop you?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
You might be surprised in the current market. Original gold, in PCGS holders, with CAC stickers sell for high dollars compared to similarly graded doctored examples. It is hard to find good gold these days. I have been looking. When Doug Winter puts out new inventory it only lasts minutes before sold.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
In 2019 an 1808 AU50 sold at auction for $132,000 which is the highest auction going back to 2004. Price guide has the grade at $140,000 now. An AU-53 just sold for $204,000 this year. I have a feeling you are sitting on some coins that would do very well in this hyper market. Bidders are falling all over each other trying to get early gold coins.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
In 2019 an 1808 AU50 sold at auction for $132,000 which is the highest auction going back to 2004. Price guide has the grade at $140,000 now. An AU-53 just sold for $204,000 this year. I have a feeling you are sitting on some coins that would do very well in this hyper market. Bidders are falling all over each other trying to get early gold coins.
This is a crazy market right now. People sitting on coins that may be underwater on should seriously consider selling, before the music stops.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
In 2019 an 1808 AU50 sold at auction for $132,000 which is the highest auction going back to 2004. Price guide has the grade at $140,000 now. An AU-53 just sold for $204,000 this year. I have a feeling you are sitting on some coins that would do very well in this hyper market. Bidders are falling all over each other trying to get early gold coins.
This is a crazy market right now. People sitting on coins that may be underwater on should seriously consider selling, before the music stops.
I am hearing that same thing from respected dealers. Nobody knows when the music will stop, but coins that people thought would never get back to their purchase prices are now 25%+ above those prices or more. Quality sells for high prices. The doctors have ruined so much gold. Original pieces have no limit if a bidding war starts. I was not collecting then and only was able to get a few dozen gold pieces before things became uncollectible for me. It's the roaring 20's all over again. Just a new Century.
@Zoins said:
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
In 2019 an 1808 AU50 sold at auction for $132,000 which is the highest auction going back to 2004. Price guide has the grade at $140,000 now. An AU-53 just sold for $204,000 this year. I have a feeling you are sitting on some coins that would do very well in this hyper market. Bidders are falling all over each other trying to get early gold coins.
This is a crazy market right now. People sitting on coins that may be underwater on should seriously consider selling, before the music stops.
I am hearing that same thing from respected dealers. Nobody knows when the music will stop, but coins that people thought would never get back to their purchase prices are now 25%+ above those prices or more. Quality sells for high prices. The doctors have ruined so much gold. Original pieces have no limit if a bidding war starts. I was not collecting then and only was able to get a few dozen gold pieces before things became uncollectible for me. It's the roaring 20's all over again. Just a new Century.
I am hearing that same thing from respected dealers. Nobody knows when the music will stop, but coins that people thought would never get back to their purchase prices are now 25%+ above those prices or more. Quality sells for high prices. The doctors have ruined so much gold. Original pieces have no limit if a bidding war starts. I was not collecting then and only was able to get a few dozen gold pieces before things became uncollectible for me. It's the roaring 20's all over again. Just a new Century.
Sell before the end of the 20s or the 30s
I best write that down. I may not even remember my name when we get to the 30's
@cameonut2011 said:
Awesome. Too bad CAC doesn’t sticker colonials anymore. The NGC plastic in the absence of a sticker may have held it back.
Can't get 5 threads without some CAC thread, which is really sad. The fact they are in Europe may have something to do with that. Who knows how many generations since these were in the States.
Were the Continental Dollars in the same sale?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Here's the 1808 quarter eagle. You can judge it from the pictures.
The "CAC Coin God" might not like it because it was very lightly brushed on the obverse. So far as sharpness and major problems go, this is the best I have seen for the AU-50 grade.
One AU-50 graded piece that was on the market for a while had a serious mark on the obverse, but still got a straight grade. The dealer who had it offered to trade it plus some cash for my piece. He was aware of the coin that I have and was able to describe it in some detail. There are not that many nicer 1808 quarter eagles known. The total population in all grades is estimated to be 150 to 160 pieces. I figured I'd be even more behind on that deal, so I passed.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Here's the 1808 quarter eagle. You can judge it from the pictures.
The "CAC Coin God" might not like it because it was very lightly brushed on the obverse. So far as sharpness and major problems go, this is the best I have seen for the AU-50 grade.
One AU-50 graded piece that was on the market for a while had a serious mark on the obverse, but still got a straight grade. The dealer who had it offered to trade it plus some cash for my piece. He was aware of the coin that I have and was able to describe it in some detail. There are not that many nicer 1808 quarter eagles known. The total population in all grades is estimated to be 150 to 160 pieces. I figured I'd be even more behind on that deal, so I passed.
They were and this article mentions "...a pair of 1776 pewter dollars that fetched nearly $80,000 each, and a Libertas Americana bronze medal that got more than $17,000".
Looking at the PDF catalog from their site, one of the dollars was NGC-62 and the other NGC-63. The Libertas Americana bronze medal was NGC-62 BN. The catalog also has some historical info about the tin and the family connections to the coins.
Results in British Pounds before the 20 percent buyers fee and links to full descriptions for the six lots from the tin also appear on this site starting at lot 1034. The Pound is worth about 1.33 US dollars.
Golden1
Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
Comments
That's awesome
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer, see my portfolio here: (http://www.donahuenumismatics.com/).
Wow, that looks super nice!
It’s a NGC MS61.
The highest grade at PCGS is AU55.
New England shillings are hot. In the recent E. Pluribus Unum sale, even vintage counterfeit NE/Mass shillings were selling for over a thousand dollars.
That's an MS61? It would be interesting to hear from CRO or someone with knowledge to explain that grading. I see in CoinFacts that there are no PCGS graded mint state coins.
Anyway, very cool story. Thank you for posting.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I bet someone found it in some junk silver box.
Hoard the keys.
Awesome. Too bad CAC doesn’t sticker colonials anymore. The NGC plastic in the absence of a sticker may have held it back.
Not quite. It was found in a candy tin.
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/rare-shilling-coin-colonial-new-england-auction
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What do you think of the grade?
Sorry, I don’t feel that I can form a meaningful opinion from the picture I’ve seen.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Original October thread on the find, with photos of the tin:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1065220/quite-the-find-1652-one-shilling
By my way of thinking, the market for these NE Shillings is nowhere near as hot as it was 10-15 years ago when they routinely sold for $300-450K.
Do you know what happened to the market? Did some collectors drop you?
And for those that like toners...
I agree. I bought a lot of nice stuff about 10 years ago, and now almost all of them are losers. I talking about stuff like early gold (pre 1834) with no problems and scarce U.S. type coins. All of them are worth less now than they were then.
For the money, there's not much there to appreciate.
That would put a smile on my face anyday
Why do you think that’s the case?
There has been a significant drop in demand, combined, perhaps in part, grade-flation, which has lowered the quality of the pieces you get for a given grade. For example, I have an 1808 quarter eagle in an Old Green Label AU-50 holder. I paid a high price for it, and still holds the auction record for the highest price paid for the grade. The others I have seen in similar grades were not as nice or had issues. Still, the coin is “a burial.”
You might be surprised in the current market. Original gold, in PCGS holders, with CAC stickers sell for high dollars compared to similarly graded doctored examples. It is hard to find good gold these days. I have been looking. When Doug Winter puts out new inventory it only lasts minutes before sold.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
A really nice find.
Spending $350k is way out of my league.
Will wait to see how fast it comes up for reauction.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
In 2019 an 1808 AU50 sold at auction for $132,000 which is the highest auction going back to 2004. Price guide has the grade at $140,000 now. An AU-53 just sold for $204,000 this year. I have a feeling you are sitting on some coins that would do very well in this hyper market. Bidders are falling all over each other trying to get early gold coins.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
This is a crazy market right now. People sitting on coins that may be underwater on should seriously consider selling, before the music stops.
I am hearing that same thing from respected dealers. Nobody knows when the music will stop, but coins that people thought would never get back to their purchase prices are now 25%+ above those prices or more. Quality sells for high prices. The doctors have ruined so much gold. Original pieces have no limit if a bidding war starts. I was not collecting then and only was able to get a few dozen gold pieces before things became uncollectible for me. It's the roaring 20's all over again. Just a new Century.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Sell before the end of the 20s or the 30s
Would be a great metal detecting find.... unlikely, but always possible. Cheers, RickO
I best write that down. I may not even remember my name when we get to the 30's
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Can't get 5 threads without some CAC thread, which is really sad. The fact they are in Europe may have something to do with that. Who knows how many generations since these were in the States.
Were the Continental Dollars in the same sale?
Here's the 1808 quarter eagle. You can judge it from the pictures.
The "CAC Coin God" might not like it because it was very lightly brushed on the obverse. So far as sharpness and major problems go, this is the best I have seen for the AU-50 grade.
One AU-50 graded piece that was on the market for a while had a serious mark on the obverse, but still got a straight grade. The dealer who had it offered to trade it plus some cash for my piece. He was aware of the coin that I have and was able to describe it in some detail. There are not that many nicer 1808 quarter eagles known. The total population in all grades is estimated to be 150 to 160 pieces. I figured I'd be even more behind on that deal, so I passed.
Beautiful coin. Thanks for sharing.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
They were and this article mentions "...a pair of 1776 pewter dollars that fetched nearly $80,000 each, and a Libertas Americana bronze medal that got more than $17,000".
https://apnews.com/article/oddities-lifestyle-europe-boston-england-3b063e56654f444f3dcfefd90e757c70
Looking at the PDF catalog from their site, one of the dollars was NGC-62 and the other NGC-63. The Libertas Americana bronze medal was NGC-62 BN. The catalog also has some historical info about the tin and the family connections to the coins.
https://mortonandeden.com/
Results in British Pounds before the 20 percent buyers fee and links to full descriptions for the six lots from the tin also appear on this site starting at lot 1034. The Pound is worth about 1.33 US dollars.
https://biddr.com/auctions/mortonandeden/browse?a=2125&p=8
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Real history there.
Worth every cent!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."