When collecting circulated Bust, Seated Liberty or Barber Dimes, do you also want them with a CAC
DisneyFan
Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thank you to the 21 collectors who took my original poll. The breakdown was 7 Raw, 9 Graded, & 5 Both! On that basis I would say there is a definite lean towards having a coin graded in spite of the lure of putting them in an album, Yes, I know the crack out option is always available.
Now would you want your circulated coins (not AU or MS or PF coins) also stickered? I'm really targeting those coins in the VF & EF grades and not costing a thousand or more.
When collecting circulated Bust, Seated Liberty or Barber Dimes, do you also want them with a CAC
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Comments
This is going to end well.
I’m just looking for a crusty original surface example. I prefer CAC but the CAC pops are low for XF barber dimes and I don’t hold out for it.
Who wants to do battle?
I'm happy as well with just a tpg
I'm glad I no longer buy collectible coins. The whole "sticker" business is a real annoyance. Collectors need to learn how to grade conservatively and trust their own judgement.
It looks like it is unanimous. Where is the CAC only crowd?
For my personal collection I’m comfortable with just a tpg grade or raw even. I like a certain look on my bust and seated coins. Crusty vf-au.
But i see a lot of seated coins these days in tpg holders with scratches, graffiti and other damage that seem they shouldn’t straight grade. So when buying online I can understand why people would want that third opinion.
My Ebay Store
If it meets my criteria it goes into the collection. JA’s green (or gold!) bean is just a bonus.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I know I’m in the minority, and I’m not uncomfortable saying that. Regardless of being in the minority, I want a CAC for several reasons:
1. It confirms the coin is highly likely solid for the grade.
2. It confirms the coins surfaces have most likely “not been messed with” in a negative fashion. I believe the “standards” for this issue is tighter at CAC than at the TPG’s.
3. When the time comes to sell, whether by me or my heirs, due to the true growing demand of coins that merit the CAC sticker (but apparently not by those replying to this poll), there’s a higher chance of receiving “fair value” for the coin.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Not necessary for me.... I trust my judgement and the TPG when slabbed. Sure, a sticker will bring a premium when selling... but also when buying....and since I buy and do not sell, it is not required. Cheers, RickO
When collecting rare coins, sometimes it is take what you can get. Even with unlimited funds which is a big even, a full set of cac quality seated would take a life time.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I typically search for CAC in auctions, shops, etc. It narrows the search significantly, making the 'hunt' more manageable. You spend your time looking at top echelon coins only.
I only search for CAC in auctions and dealer websites. I agree with @winesteven 100% and his reasons for CAC only purchases.
The percentage CAC vs non-CAC for circ barbers in the marketplace is very low. In fact some date/MM combinations have none - so you would be waiting until someone decided to send one in and sell.
The CAC-only collectors must have a lot of patience!
Plus, even when a CAC example can be found, it might not be acceptable for various reasons.
I lean towards CAC, but certainly not exclusively.
The sticker sure makes them easier to sell in an online venue.
So what this really says is if you have confidence in the quality of the circulated Barber's you've purchased, it makes tremendous sense to send those in at only $16 a pop to get the CAC sticker. This way, down the road when you or your heirs sell it, you should get top dollar, according to your comments!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think the results are a function of the way the question was asked. If it asked whether we preferred CAC. I think you'd get different results.
Gee, we've never had this argument before.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Voted blue - TPG good enough for me.
The coin has to be acceptable to me. Something feel can move quickly. Beyond that it’s a function of buying it right plus getting what I want for it (desired markup). My offer / bid most likely would be a pct of CPG allowing plan margin.
LOL! Hence my post above!
I’ve often wondered a hypothetical thing regarding CAC. Basically if the price was the same for 2 identical problem free coins with good eye appeal, but one was undergraded by 2 points and one was over graded by 2 points, which would most people desire more? If I understand correctly, the one that is undergraded would get a CAC sticker but the one that is over graded wouldn’t get a CAC sticker even though they would be virtually the same coin.
I’m thinking that, for registry set people they would like the overgraded one because it would get them more points, but for sight unseen purchasers that aren’t pursuing a registry set that the undergraded one with a CAC sticker would be more desirable.
But I’m not sure if others would agree or not. But I’ve actually thought of this several times, especially when I see comments like “that’s an old school XF but would grade AU by todays standards”. But if it was XF it would most likely CAC, but might not if it says AU on the slab
Mr_Spud
Yes - agreed and well stated!
A CAC sticker means that it is either an "A" or "B" coin for the grade (i.e. it is in the top 2/3s of the TPG assigned grade). There are many average coins with stickers that are hardly "top echelon coins."
Want or need? The poll options and title really are for two separate questions.
I'm also a bit sad there's no "I'm okay with raw" especially for the common ones.
EDITED: Oops, I didn't see the original poll.
I agree that in theory you are absolutely correct! However, in the real world that’s often not the case. Just yesterday I was researching a coin I see in a major upcoming auction (I won’t disclose the coin, as I’m interested in bidding on it, and I don’t want to attract more attention). The coin is very attractive, and valued at about $1,000 - $1,200. There are 171 coins in this grade by PCGS and NGC, yet only 10 merit a CAC sticker, and this is one of those 10. (It’s not a gold coin).
I acknowledge not every coin has been submitted to CAC, but as a generalization, I think we can agree that the higher the value of a coin, chances are a higher percentage of them have been submitted to CAC compared to lower value coins. Otherwise, money is being “left on the table” at the time of sale. Even adjusting for multiple resubmissions, in the above example we get nowhere near 2/3. With gold coins, many times the CAC pop percentage is similarly low. So implying that 2/3 of coins should get a CAC is WAY OFF BASE in my opinion. With collectors and dealers very carefully screening coins to submit to CAC, my sense of what I’ve heard is that maybe only 40% or so of these heavily screened submissions merit CAC stickers.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I disagree as to the amount of "screening" that goes on especially for lower priced coins such as posited in this thread. Most dealers aren't submitting lower value coins to CAC. And most collectors are going to submit inexpensive coins without strict scrutiny. CAC refunds submission fees for coins that don't sticker for collectors and when submitted together, the amount of postage on inexpensive coins is rather small.
As for the other coin, we can't really comment on the coin without seeing it or knowing more specifics such as the spread between CAC and non-CAC coins. For some issues, particularly at lower grades (which is very plausible given the low dollar range of $1k-$1.2k), a CAC sticker might not mean a lot of difference in terms of price increase.
But we’re still nowhere near 2/3 with CAC’s, which is your point with which I disagree!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
With collectors and dealers very carefully screening coins to submit to CAC, my sense of what I’ve heard is that maybe only 40% or so of these heavily screened submissions merit CAC stickers.
I'll agree and go one step further. First, one of the top people at Heritage (not Mark Feld) told me basically the same thing when he was dealing on his own - 35% of the coins he submitted got a CAC.
Step further, when pointing out that so few early MS Walkers have CACs, one of the top people at Greysheet said that 's because they are overgraded.
One of the reason for my asking the survey question is common date Barber dimes between VF to XF price guide between $25 and $50. So for consistency with higher valued dates, how important is it to find one with a CAC that cost someone another $16+?
Not that important and if it is, you’d probably need to submit yourself because the CAC pops are low since it’s not generally worth the expense for dealers to submit and this series is a bit overlooked.
BTW, good look finding original looking PCGS barbers that would CAC for $25 - $50.