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Buster Posey is Retiring
Tabe
Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Hasn't been announced yet but he appears to be retiring:
0
Tabe
Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
Tabe
Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
Tabe
Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
Tabe
Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hasn't been announced yet but he appears to be retiring:
Comments
One of the great team leaders
Wow! I'm sure I've expressed my admiration for Posey in past posts. Great player, great team-mate, great leader, great human being. As much as I'll miss seeing him play, I'm happy for Buster! See you at your HoF induction.
that is surprising. he isnt that old is he? I guess he has been declining for quite a few years now
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I just checked, he did have a resurgence this year and only 34. he had a very good career. not a HOFer, but a very very good career.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
craig44 said: " ... not a HOFer ..."
Before I lose respect for your opinions, please check his career stats. I don't want to embarrass you with facts.
You're kidding, aren't you?
I never fail to be stunned by HoF opinions on this board.
Buster should get in.
Not to worry -- Buster will surely be elected to the HoF. I think craig44 has been drinking this evening. ;-)
It took Ted Simmons a very long time to make the HOF. Posey was not as good as Simmons - please don't embarrass yourself by arguing otherwise, I am trying to eliminate the use of "moron" from my posts - but he is in the next group down. That group includes Freehan, Munson and Tenace, and you could put those four in any order and not be wrong (JAWS ranks them Munson, Tenace, Posey, Freehan). If I had to pick one to put in the HOF I'd pick Freehan, but I'd rather all four stayed out than all four got in. I can't think of any reason at all why Posey should get in and not the others.
I am well aware of his stats. I suppose, reading your response, better aware of them than you...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
not at all. exactly which of busters stats puts him in the HOF for you? I am truly interested.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
dallas wrote: "Posey was not as good as Simmons"
Excuse me for saying so, but you are confused about the definition of good, especially regarding HoF credentials. Getting elected to the HoF as a catcher is more about the kinds of things on Posey's resume [3 WS rings in 12 years, career 300 hitter, MVP, rookie of the year, team leader] and less about the kinds of things on Simmons resume [Simmons accumulated some good career numbers, but those numbers didn't lead to much regarding championships or even "almost winning a championship"]. Yes, judging a catcher's career is different than judging the career of all other players. The catcher looks "out" at the field -- all other players look in the other direction.
I'm weak on baseball. Please tell me which catchers match him in the last 20-25 yrs....
I await your reply Craig. Please educate me.
BTW, if it was just about numbers...Rose and Bonds would be in, right?
This is a very good summary of how HOF votes went for years when the people voting didn't understand how to identify great baseball players. But a lot of them do now, and they know that Posey with his three rings and Tenace with his four rings (and WS MVP) were not as good as Ted Simmons. Counting "Rings" is the absolute worst way to evaluate any player at any position in any sport; baseball catchers are certainly no exception.
The real reason I brought up Rose and Bonds is because IMHO their lack of(or absence) of character is why they are on the sidelines.
What they lack, Posey possesses x10.
I'll refer you to an expert
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2886426-ranking-mlbs-25-best-catchers-since-2000
dallas: Gene Tenace batted .158 in nine postseason series (yes, he had one great series and eight bad ones). Tenace was a career .241 hitter -- he just so happened to play on some very good teams. Tenace couldn't carry Posey's jock strap.
Try again?
WHO?
158 homers is a really, really small number for a player to make the Hall.
No thank you, I'll stick with what I (and everyone else who rates players based on actual facts) said already. Oh, and since this apparently isn't as obvious to you as it really should be, EVERYONE who has 3 (or 4) World Series rings played on very good teams. On account of baseball being a team game with, like, pitchers and stuff.
And speaking of jock carrying, how many rings does Carlton Fisk have? How about Mike Piazza? Your "argument" is rubbish, and I'm quite sure either of them could explain to you why that is.
Big hint for anyone interested in joining the group who wants to evaluate baseball players correctly: cover up the batting average column - it's never helpful, and (see this thread) can be terribly misleading.
I am a HUGE fan of Gene Tenace, undoubtedly the most underrated player in history. I mean no insult to Buster Posey by grouping him with Gene Tenace. Buster Posey, like Gene Tenace, Thurman Munson, and Bill Freehan, was an excellent baseball player. He was also, assuming it's correct that he never plays again, a clear step below the HOF level.
Apparently, Posey was one of the initial investors in the Body Armor sports drink. And rumored to have been at an even greater amount of investment than Kobe Bryant. When Coca-Cola recently purchased Body Armor, it was announced that Kobe's initial $6 million investment had just netted his estate a cool $400 million. So it looks like Posey just hit the big money, and no longer needs his baseball payday.
I just cant, I dont have the energy. it is so obvious. plus, I promised Todd I was on best behavior...
just because a player is not HOF worthy doesn't mean he wasn't a really really good player.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Tenace was such a good catcher that FOUR DIFFERENT TEAMS had to have him and he was such a good catcher that 40% of his games had him at first base. That's over 600 games at first.
SO- does he get admitted as a catcher or a journeyman utility player?
Raise your hand if you saw him play in the 60's or 70's. That's 50yrs ago.
Posey only caught 1093 games. not very many. of the modern catchers, say from bench on, Piazza has the fewest at 1700. He is behind all of them in both WAR and JAWS. His cumulative stats are very very lacking because he only has less than 5000 AB. his rate stats are elevated because he had no decline. he is 34 and retired.
He is solidly in the middle. Not great enough to be Koufax, not durable enough to be IRod.
A very good player.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It's kinda fun reading the different views on this thread. I'll be a "monkey's uncle" if Posey doesn't make the HoF. In the meantime, I'll wish Buster and his family "all the best".
Yea let him in, let everyone in.
Get drafted you're in the Hall. Play a good career you're in the Hall.
Changed planes in Dallas? You're in baby!
Ounce by ounce the stack grows .
Just to put a bow on this thread:
https://www.facebook.com/KNBRSF/photos/a.428539858586/10158379233323587/
Buster underperformed in the playoffs as well. check out this dandy of a slash line:
.252/.321/.345
yuk. that is in a pretty large sample size of 58 games as well.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Playoff slash lines are almost always very low (compared to regular season slash lines) -- of course, because you're facing the very best pitchers who are at the top of their game. For a catcher, that's actually a great slash line for 58 playoff games.
I must admit that I thought Buster's career stats would be better / more.
Career hits at 1,500. HRs at 158. IBB at 67 (which I see as teams/pitchers fear in the batter)
In the 2014 ALDS, the Royals pitching staff held the "great" Mike Trout to a 1 for 12 showing. In the World Series, Buster went 4 for 26. Just on that achievement alone, it's pretty clear Posey's a HOFer if Trout is.
How about the guy who retired from Minnesota?? Where does he factor in the argument on catchers. Elite hitter for 4-5 years. Joe Mauer.
Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench and Gary Carter all say Hello!
it is the hope that a player can play to his regular-season abilities. Posey shrunk in the post-season. quite significantly
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Mauer is a clear step above Posey et. al., and should get in the HOF fairly quickly.
Mickey71: Here's a pretty good summary regarding Joe Mauer's career:
"Some will also argue that the offense isn’t quite there, especially when he played first base for five seasons. While he was a great hitter overall, he only topped 13 home runs once (28 in 2009) and never had 100 RBIs in a season.
Then there’s the missing postseason resume. While postseason success hasn’t traditionally been a huge factor in baseball voting, it may be held against him by some that his team never won a postseason series and that he only has one career postseason extra base hit and one postseason RBI.
However, when we consider how much that Mauer accomplished over his career at the game’s most physically demanding position, the guess here is that Mauer will get in, maybe not on the first try, but eventually."
Buster Olney chimes in.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/32551352/san-francisco-giants-star-buster-posey-rewrite-hall-fame-expectations-catcher
That is almost exactly how I feel about it. Buster Olney writes for ESPN that Posey should get in, and once he gets in there will be no reason to deny the likes of Munson and Posada. I think that is a horrible, and frightening, argument. Kind of like saying that now that we've elected Hunter that paves the way for the likes of Pappas, Hershiser, and Blue (the numbers 2, 3, and 4 in similarity score to Hunter, but all clearly better. Tiant is most similar, but unlike the other three there are a lot of people trying to make a case for Tiant.)
BTW, Posada got 3.7% in his only year on the ballot.
Can I jump in?
Yadier Molina is the best catcher of this generation. It’s not really close, either. Similar offensively and superior defensively, which is arguably more important.
Joe Mauer was also better than Buster Posey, at least offensively.
Of the three, I think Yadier Molina is most deserving of the Hall of Fame though even he probably is borderline.
But I think those are the top three of the catchers who played the entirety of their careers in the last 15-20 years…
…did I miss anyone?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Not be all end all but a WAR list from baseball-reference.com:
Discuss. 😁
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
[Note: I have a bachelor's degree in Math and a master's degree in Computer Science.]
If selecting HoF players was mainly about WAR and JAWS scores, there would be no need for a HoF voting process -- just let the computer algorithms tell us who to send to Cooperstown. Thankfully, that's not the way it works.
WAR and JAWS are just 2 tools in the box to help evaluate players. what are your reasons for including Posey in the HOF?
It cant be his cumulative totals, he lacks in all of those. what with the whopping 1500 hits and 158 home runs and all.
Is it the rate stats? even though he retired at 34 and didnt have a decline period, those are not great enough to warrant inclusion.
is it his lackluster post-season statistics? He wasnt good then
Is it his one MVP? lots of guys have done that and never sniffed the hall. George Bell says hello.
some people parade around a players "leadership" or "intangibles" how exactly do we measure those? How do we know Posey was a better leader or club house personality than Tony Pena? and if he was, by how much? that stuff is nice and all, but totally incalculable.
It is plainly clear that Posey was a very nice player. very very good. not a generational talent. not a HOFer.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
First ballot
Most valuable catcher last quarter century
Richest catcher in HOF
Without him, no Giants WS rings
But the never talked about Uber rare quality that sports writers love:
He's a friggin model citizen
the last 25 years takes us back to 1996. I would say both Piazza and I Rod were clearly more valuable than Posey from 1996 until now. In fact, they both dwarf him.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
In fact, if we are going back 25 years, Javy Lopez was better than Buster. Is Javy Lopez a hall of famer in your book?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Craig
Buster, first ballot. See you in 2026.
Back to the oatmeal.
Yep, "Buster, first ballot. See you in 2026." -- that's a great summary for this thread.
Now that is some hard-hitting statistical analysis.
He will actually be eligible on the 2027 ballot...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
What's your point?
BTW,
Craig,
There are Three lies.
1. Lies
2. Damn lies
3. Statistics
If statistics were all that mattered, Mr Bonds and Rose would not be riding the pine.
That's one of the problems with collecting sports cards. They are just statistics. One guy hits two homeruns, another hits one. Ergo the guy who hits two is better.
But not necessarily.
well.. you have posted a half dozen times in this thread and given absolutely no analysis at all.
well, you did say he would be the richest catcher in the HOF
and you were incorrect about his first year of eligibility.
I understand you think Posey is a no doubt hall of famer, but you offer nothing in the was of analysis to back up that thought.
thats my point
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.