Trying to get the last 2021 post in this interminable thread? 🤔
100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
@Zoins said:
I think there are defensible reasons to consider them part of the series, and not.
They were just issued so there can be a lot of opinions, but I think it will be settled in the next 5 years.
The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars, tho I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend one -- Same with an OG Morgan - still "spendable" but I doubt any one would - nor would anyone receiving it know what to do with it.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
According to the legislation authorizing them they are commemoratives.
According to the legislation, the bicentennial coins are commemoratives as well. Does any Kennedy, Washington, or Ike collector exclude them from their collections? Does the Red Book, PCGS, or ATS exclude them?
Public Law 93-127
AN ACT October 18, 1973
To provide a new coinage design and date emblematic of the Bicentennial of the American Revolution for dollars, half dollars, and quarter dollars, to authorize the issuance of special silver coins commemorating the Bicentennial
of the American Revolution, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled, That the reverse American Reverse side of all dollar, half-dollar, and quarter-dollar coins minted for issuance on or after July 4, 1975, and until such time as the Secretary Coinage design
of the Treasury may determine, shall bear a design determined by the Secretary to be emblematic of the Bicentennial of the American Revolution.
BUT the bicentennial coins are a continuation of the coins in circulation and they were intended for circulation. They are not following up by 100 years a series that was discontinued, made of a totally different composition and not intended for circulation. The use of the word commemorative in the context it is used in the !legislation for the Morgan's (all the things mentioned and more) makes it clear the are not part of the Morgan series.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Zoins said:
I think there are defensible reasons to consider them part of the series, and not.
They were just issued so there can be a lot of opinions, but I think it will be settled in the next 5 years.
The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars, tho I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend one -- Same with an OG Morgan - still "spendable" but I doubt any one would - nor would anyone receiving it know what to do with it.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
Actually they are commemoratives according to the legislation, comments by mint officials and legislators and the facts regarding the when and how the coins were minted. These coins follow by 100 years the discontinuation of the Morgan series.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Zoins said:
I think there are defensible reasons to consider them part of the series, and not.
They were just issued so there can be a lot of opinions, but I think it will be settled in the next 5 years.
The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars, tho I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend one -- Same with an OG Morgan - still "spendable" but I doubt any one would - nor would anyone receiving it know what to do with it.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
According to the legislation authorizing them they are commemoratives.
According to the legislation, the bicentennial coins are commemoratives as well. Does any Kennedy, Washington, or Ike collector exclude them from their collections? Does the Red Book, PCGS, or ATS exclude them?
Public Law 93-127
AN ACT October 18, 1973
To provide a new coinage design and date emblematic of the Bicentennial of the American Revolution for dollars, half dollars, and quarter dollars, to authorize the issuance of special silver coins commemorating the Bicentennial
of the American Revolution, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled, That the reverse American Reverse side of all dollar, half-dollar, and quarter-dollar coins minted for issuance on or after July 4, 1975, and until such time as the Secretary Coinage design
of the Treasury may determine, shall bear a design determined by the Secretary to be emblematic of the Bicentennial of the American Revolution.
BUT the bicentennial coins are a continuation of the coins in circulation and they were intended for circulation. They are not following up by 100 years a series that was discontinued, made of a totally different composition and not intended for circulation. The use of the word commemorative in the context it is used in the !legislation for the Morgan's (all the things mentioned and more) makes it clear the are not part of the Morgan series.
What are you on about? The 40% silver bicentennial coinage--of which literally millions of pieces were released--were made of an entirely different composition, an entirely different design obverse AND reverse, and were absolutely not made for circulation.
The new Morgan dollars are literally Morgan dollars.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
@Higashiyama said: @Weiss said: « The new Morgan dollars are literally Morgan dollars. »
Almost everyone contributing to this thread agrees with that.
We just cannot agree if they are regular issue or a Commemorative
Martin
I'm not sure anyone agrees on what it means to be "part of a series".
For sure though, if I ever fill my dansco Morgan albums, I will not shed any tears for not having one of those modern commemoratives. 😉
100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
I tough he said we are commemorating the 100th year of the Morgan dollar not this is a commemorative of the Morgan dollar. But what ever I like them but love the peace dollar a bit more.
@DrDarryl said:
Not part of the Morgan series. It's a single year issue. Read the contents of PUBLIC LAW 116–286, 1921 Silver Dollar Coin Anniversary Act. Please note that each "shall" must be adhered to by the Secretary of the Treasury, who then directs the Director of the Mint with the terms of PUBLIC LAW 116–286. In other words, the U.S. Mint must adhere to PUBLIC LAW 116–286. https://congress.gov/116/plaws/publ330/PLAW-116publ330.pdf
PUBLIC LAW 116–286, SEC 3. COIN SPECIFICATION, states the requirements for the 1921 Silver
Dollar Coin Anniversary Act.
The text "... shall mint and issue $1 coins in recognition of the 100th anniversary of completion
of coinage of the Morgan dollar and the 100th anniversary of commencement of coinage of the Peace dollar..."
PUBLIC LAW 116–286, SEC. 4. DESIGN OF COINS, states the design requirements.
The text "...The designs of the coins minted under this Act shall honor either the Morgan dollar or the Peace dollar, as follows..."
"(A) MORGAN DOLLAR.—The coins honoring the 100th anniversary of completion of coinage of the Morgan dollar shall have an obverse design and a reverse design that are renditions of the designs historically used on the obverse and reverse of the Morgan dollar .
(B) PEACE DOLLAR.—The coins honoring the 100th anniversary of commencement of coinage of the Peace dollar shall have an obverse design and a reverse design that are renditions of the designs historically used on the obverse and reverse of the Peace dollar ."
I'll see your Public Law 116-286 and raise you PUBLIC LAW 105–124—DEC. 1, 1997, also know as The 50 STATES COMMEMORATIVE COIN PROGRAM ACT :
Or are the 50 state quarters not considered part of the Washington Quarter series by our hosts, the Red Book, and, well, literally everyone?
The 50 state quarters didn't end the Washington series. They immediately followed the other Washington quarters with Washington still on the obverse and were minted for circulation. On the other hand this 2021 Morgan is 100 years after the discontinuation of the original coins that were replaced by the Peace Dollar and were minted as commemoratives. I don't think this is a valid analogy.
PCGS and the Red Book do not consider them to be the same. PCGS clearly lists:
Washington Quarter (1932-1998)
Washington 50 State Quarters (1999-2008)
Washington D.C. and U.S. Territories Quarters (2009)
Washington America the Beautiful Quarters (2010-2021)
Washington Crossing the Delaware Quarters
American Women Quarters
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS). Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
I think to really know whether they should be part of the Morgan set/series, you need to ask the Morgan dollars themselves. Now, the 1878s of all mints were the first Morgans in the series, they should should carry a lot of weight, similarly, the 1893-1895 Morgans in general are the meat of the series with a lot of expensive coins, thus they would also carry more weight than say some other years. I believe all of them would say no at this point in time. Actually, if you asked any 1878-1904 Morgan in the year 1921 if the 1921 PDS coins were part of the series, they would say no. Now, over the following 50 years, the 1921 mints probably became accepted by their predecessors. So probably in the 1970s all the Morgans were fully accepted as part of the series.
Now, jump forward another 50 years and you got the 2021 mints, some with privy mint marks. I think even the 1921 Morgans would decline to include them in the series, even though they were the last ones accepted into the current series.
Just my opinion, for a little fun on a rainy day.
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. Will’sProoflikes
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. Will’sProoflikes
@DNADave said:
Collect what you want and how you want to collect it. Isn’t that the mantra here?
You define your own sets and I’ll define mine.
Absolutely the way I see it. But if you want to be part of the registry gang, there’s rules and at that point what you or I think means nothing.
I am happy collecting what I like and am glad to see you are as well 😉
Comments
No.
No.
No.
Oh, did I express my thoughts yet....
NO.
Not a chance.
Not the same in any way. Sorry.
Nope.
.
.
Trying to get the last 2021 post in this interminable thread? 🤔
Most of the time there’s pretty good informational posts here.
Were these actually minted where the mint marks would indicate? Asking because I don’t know.
Actually in my mind it doesn't matter in so many ways.........
I’ll take that as a ‘no’
NO. NO. NO. NO.
Did I say "No"?
There's plenty of coins that were minted where a lack of mintmark didn't indicate where they were made.
BUT the bicentennial coins are a continuation of the coins in circulation and they were intended for circulation. They are not following up by 100 years a series that was discontinued, made of a totally different composition and not intended for circulation. The use of the word commemorative in the context it is used in the !legislation for the Morgan's (all the things mentioned and more) makes it clear the are not part of the Morgan series.
Actually they are commemoratives according to the legislation, comments by mint officials and legislators and the facts regarding the when and how the coins were minted. These coins follow by 100 years the discontinuation of the Morgan series.
I believe there’s a thread or post from the tpg. They are listed with commemoratives. Period. Perhaps our host😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Here it is.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
What are you on about? The 40% silver bicentennial coinage--of which literally millions of pieces were released--were made of an entirely different composition, an entirely different design obverse AND reverse, and were absolutely not made for circulation.
The new Morgan dollars are literally Morgan dollars.
--Severian the Lame
@Weiss said: « The new Morgan dollars are literally Morgan dollars. »
Almost everyone contributing to this thread agrees with that.
We just cannot agree if they are regular issue or a Commemorative
Martin
I'm not sure anyone agrees on what it means to be "part of a series".
For sure though, if I ever fill my dansco Morgan albums, I will not shed any tears for not having one of those modern commemoratives. 😉
I tough he said we are commemorating the 100th year of the Morgan dollar not this is a commemorative of the Morgan dollar. But what ever I like them but love the peace dollar a bit more.
Hoard the keys.
PCGS and the Red Book do not consider them to be the same. PCGS clearly lists:
Washington Quarter (1932-1998)
Washington 50 State Quarters (1999-2008)
Washington D.C. and U.S. Territories Quarters (2009)
Washington America the Beautiful Quarters (2010-2021)
Washington Crossing the Delaware Quarters
American Women Quarters
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Just keep looking. Tpg sez this ! Is the reason you can’t see this that your eyes are closed. ?? 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Collect what you want and how you want to collect it. Isn’t that the mantra here?
You define your own sets and I’ll define mine.
I think to really know whether they should be part of the Morgan set/series, you need to ask the Morgan dollars themselves. Now, the 1878s of all mints were the first Morgans in the series, they should should carry a lot of weight, similarly, the 1893-1895 Morgans in general are the meat of the series with a lot of expensive coins, thus they would also carry more weight than say some other years. I believe all of them would say no at this point in time. Actually, if you asked any 1878-1904 Morgan in the year 1921 if the 1921 PDS coins were part of the series, they would say no. Now, over the following 50 years, the 1921 mints probably became accepted by their predecessors. So probably in the 1970s all the Morgans were fully accepted as part of the series.
Now, jump forward another 50 years and you got the 2021 mints, some with privy mint marks. I think even the 1921 Morgans would decline to include them in the series, even though they were the last ones accepted into the current series.
Just my opinion, for a little fun on a rainy day.
Will’sProoflikes
PS I still like the new ones.
Will’sProoflikes
Absolutely the way I see it. But if you want to be part of the registry gang, there’s rules and at that point what you or I think means nothing.
I am happy collecting what I like and am glad to see you are as well 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶