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How would you handle this situation as a buyer or seller ?

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 4:55PM

    Touched a nerve, did I? My sincerest apologies.

    edited to add... Interesting that you considered my post in a negative manner. I wonder why you might have done that?

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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    This is a great thread. It helps me determine which forum members are honest and which aren't to be trusted to honor an agreement.

    @Cougar1978 laughed at your comment without you even naming or tagging him. Just gonna leave that there...

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    There is nothing wrong looking out for number 1, beats getting exploited, hosed lol. Furthermore coin deals like (what u seem to be forgetting lol) that can be subject to changes in market conditions (MV going down!). There is no free ride in numismatics and the seller unfortunately may be out of luck. The op has every right back away from the deal or see if an adjustment can be made.

    The WHOLE point of making a deal at a given moment in time is to lock in the current market and have the deal agnostic to future changes, regardless of which party they favor. Making an agreement in good faith and holding it is a far cry from being exploited or hosed.

    What’s worse than @cougar1978 being cavalier about not honoring agreements? His clicking on “LOL” in reply to a post by someone who advocates honoring agreements.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I stand behind my honor and word.
    Pay what you agreed to.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

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    jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone shipping on approval?
    Send me 50..

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    What’s worse than @cougar1978 being cavalier about not honoring agreements? His clicking on “LOL” in reply to a post by someone who advocates honoring agreements.

    He also appears to believe that the idea that one should honor their agreements makes one a bottom feeder.

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    Larrob37Larrob37 Posts: 217 ✭✭✭

    The only reason i even considered if i should contact the seller was the fact that i was paying $300.00 for a coin that i could buy on ebay for $200.00. Percentage wise thats considerable. I see most agree with me that a deal is a deal but hearing from the few sellers who actually sell coins presell looks like something is amiss. The presellers are saying that from their experience quite a few buyers do in fact back out of deals. I wonder if they are preselling to people on this board. If not then they probably should be from the board responses.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some people will live up to their agreements even if it means they don't get the best deal possible. Others are looking out for No. 1.

    It's up to you which sort of person you're willing to make a commitment to.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 9:25PM

    Thank you for informing me of that situation Larrob37.

    Wow that’s a huge difference! Considering the materiality of the difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky if not a rip. Yes if some of them here think that’s any kind of a deal let them go buy one.

    Have you already paid him the money? Hopefully not. While a deal is a deal it’s not in fact one if your way overpaying based on what was originally represented or understood.

    When something is not a doable deal or you got dumped on (item your buying not worth the price) there’s nothing wrong with walking away.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @2ltdjorn said:
    Funny thing, one of the posters actually did the same thing to me…

    Tried to renegotiate after he paid and received the coin… but yet his response is a deal is a deal…

    Idiot.

    Yeah I can certainly understand it money has already been exchanged or a payment has been made then tough cookie. But as far as capitalism gg> @Cougar1978 said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    There is nothing wrong looking out for number 1, beats getting exploited, hosed lol. Furthermore coin deals like (what u seem to be forgetting lol) that can be subject to changes in market conditions (MV going down!). There is no free ride in numismatics and the seller unfortunately may be out of luck. The op has every right back away from the deal or see if an adjustment can be made.

    The WHOLE point of making a deal at a given moment in time is to lock in the current market and have the deal agnostic to future changes, regardless of which party they favor. Making an agreement in good faith and holding it is a far cry from being exploited or hosed.

    Your kidding lol. I think a drop of $100 is a material enough reason for him to consider the issue. Unfortunately we don’t know the total price of the item, but it must be material to him and that is what matters.

    No they aren't kidding lol

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,426 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Considering the materiality of the difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky.

    It’s generally understood by both buyers and sellers that pre-sales are risky. People who are willing to take the risk participate in such transactions. Those who aren’t willing to take such risks should wait until the coins are available. But if you choose to make an agreement, you should honor it. And that’s regardless of which way and how much the market moves. It’s really quite simple.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a deal was made whether the price rises or drops shouldn't even be considered. Any coin can rise or drop after you purchase it. If you feel like a coin is going to drop after you buy it then don't agree to buy it. I haven't purchased or agreed to purchase any of the 2021 Morgan or Peace issues because I knew they come flying out of the gates high and then drop. I still feel they are overpriced even after the drop and even the issue price was too high in my opinion,

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    If the price jumps back up a hundred would you then send the other hundred. A deal is a deal is a deal. Prices fluctuate and you were willing to pay the price for the collection's sake. Be happy.

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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    If a deal was made whether the price rises or drops shouldn't even be considered. Any coin can rise or drop after you purchase it. If you feel like a coin is going to drop after you buy it then don't agree to buy it. I haven't purchased or agreed to purchase any of the 2021 Morgan or Peace issues because I knew they come flying out of the gates high and then drop. I still feel they are overpriced even after the drop and even the issue price was too high in my opinion,

    Same. Just like the stock market if you can't handle the ebb and flows...it's not for you.
    Unless I have pre-paid or or put a down payment, my money can walk with me and find a better deal. Always another buyer/seller out there.

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    It’s really quite simple.

    Not for everybody, unfortunately.

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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Thank you for informing me of that situation Larrob37.

    Wow that’s a huge difference! Considering the materiality of the difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky if not a rip. Yes if some of them here think that’s any kind of a deal let them go buy one.

    Have you already paid him the money? Hopefully not. While a deal is a deal it’s not in fact one if your way overpaying based on what was originally represented or understood.

    When something is not a doable deal or you got dumped on (item your buying not worth the price) there’s nothing wrong with walking away.

    Every deal has a buyer and a seller. Using your logic, if the losing side can just walk away at any point, why would anyone ever partake in a presale instead of pay the prevailing price when everything is available? A guaranteed buy/sell at a set time when an item has a limited quantity itself has value, and that is included as part of the presale.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 6:44PM

    Yeah, his parents probably> @Cougar1978 said:

    Thank you for informing me of that situation Larrob37.

    Wow that’s a huge difference! Considering the materiality of the difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky if not a rip. Yes if some of them here think that’s any kind of a deal let them go buy one.

    Have you already paid him the money? Hopefully not. While a deal is a deal it’s not in fact one if your way overpaying based on what was originally represented or understood.

    When something is not a doable deal or you got dumped on (item your buying not worth the price) there’s nothing wrong with walking away.

    So you recommend that I screw all the people on this forum who only bought the coins because I locked the price?

    I doubt you would be so understanding if someone did it to you.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Thank you for informing me of that situation Larrob37.

    Wow that’s a huge difference! Considering the materiality of the difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky if not a rip. Yes if some of them here think that’s any kind of a deal let them go buy one.

    Have you already paid him the money? Hopefully not. While a deal is a deal it’s not in fact one if your way overpaying based on what was originally represented or understood.

    When something is not a doable deal or you got dumped on (item your buying not worth the price) there’s nothing wrong with walking away.

    Every deal has a buyer and a seller. Using your logic, if the losing side can just walk away at any point, why would anyone ever partake in a presale instead of pay the prevailing price when everything is available? A guaranteed buy/sell at a set time when an item has a limited quantity itself has value, and that is included as part of the presale.

    It just amazes me that someone who considers himself a dealer would take such a position. He's admittedly an amateur, but the whole retail bullion market is propped up by locks between dealers and wholesalers.

    The value of those locks filters down to sellers. The only reason I can do a $100k gold deal on a1% margin is because I can lock the price with a phone call. Otherwise, I have to offer less to include the risk premium.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Some have done it without even having any of their money on the line

    Can't argue with that.

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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    There is nothing wrong looking out for number 1, beats getting exploited, hosed lol. Furthermore coin deals like (what u seem to be forgetting lol) that can be subject to changes in market conditions (MV going down!). There is no free ride in numismatics and the seller unfortunately may be out of luck. The op has every right back away from the deal or see if an adjustment can be worked out.

    Disagree. If someone calls to lock in a gold price and backs out or wants to revalue it, I'm stuck holding bullion I only bought for the customer.

    Other scenarios apply: you offer $250 for a coin and I hold it. Someone else offers 250 but I tell them it's sold. You come back and want to pay $150.

    You have demonstrated that you cannot be trusted to honor an agreement. Why would I do business with you?

    If you're buying the bullion without some sort of down payment from the customer then that risk of moving product is on you. Make it to where they can't walk away without a penalty.

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or "1800's mindset in 2021"

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you ever bough or sold a stock in the stock market?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SonnyD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    There is nothing wrong looking out for number 1, beats getting exploited, hosed lol. Furthermore coin deals like (what u seem to be forgetting lol) that can be subject to changes in market conditions (MV going down!). There is no free ride in numismatics and the seller unfortunately may be out of luck. The op has every right back away from the deal or see if an adjustment can be worked out.

    Disagree. If someone calls to lock in a gold price and backs out or wants to revalue it, I'm stuck holding bullion I only bought for the customer.

    Other scenarios apply: you offer $250 for a coin and I hold it. Someone else offers 250 but I tell them it's sold. You come back and want to pay $150.

    You have demonstrated that you cannot be trusted to honor an agreement. Why would I do business with you?

    If you're buying the bullion without some sort of down payment from the customer then that risk of moving product is on you. Make it to where they can't walk away without a penalty.

    Gee,I never thought of that. But you're missing the point.

    I would ask for full payment for someone I didn't know. But these deals go down all the time on promises. There are any number of people who would buy bullion or anything else for me on a phone call. I would do the same for them.

    Coin shows are full of dealer to dealer coin deals on memo.

    Integrity matters. Honor matters.

    You walk away from a deal and you will have a hard time making another

    I might have a customer for your $100k coin. You give it to me to show him. No money changes hands until a sale is made. If you screwed on a deal, you can't do that deal unless you pony up the $100k up front. Then what do you do when your customer passes on it?

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:
    Have you ever bough or sold a stock in the stock market?

    Not sure what this is implying.

    Ever bought a future call on the stock market?

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    MgarmyMgarmy Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread should be posted at the top of BST

    100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SonnyD said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or "1800's mindset in 2021"

    I have news for you Sonny Boy, it's also 2021 laws. You can be taken to court for breaking a contract, written or oral.

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    MgarmyMgarmy Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not worth it JM

    100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 32,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mgarmy said:
    Not worth it JM

    Probably true.

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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 8:28PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SonnyD said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or "1800's mindset in 2021"

    I have news for you Sonny Boy, it's also 2021 laws. You can be taken to court for breaking a contract, written or oral.

    In Texas anything over $500 HAS to be in writing or your suit will be dismissed. I know my State law, Sir.
    And on another note; you're going to waste more time and money in court to recoup what you could have sold to the next Joe?

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 9:53PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Yeah, his parents probably> @Cougar1978 said:

    Thank you for informing me of that situation Larrob37.

    Wow that’s a huge difference! Considering the materiality of the kid difference and this is a presale? I think you should reconsider the deal. I have never participated in presales and consider them risky if not a rip. Yes if some of them here think that’s any kind of a deal let them go buy one.

    Have you already paid him the money? Hopefully not. While a deal is a deal it’s not in fact one if your way overpaying based on what was originally represented or understood.

    When something is not a doable deal or you got dumped on (item your buying not worth the price) there’s nothing wrong with walking away.

    So you recommend that I screw all the people on this forum who only bought the coins because I locked the price?

    I doubt you would be so understanding if someone did it to you.

    Get outta here - I never recommended you do anything. I have a right express my opinion here and resent your baseless accusation. How dare you quote somebody bringing my family into it. Your taking my convo with op and messing with me lol? Its the op right to walk away to avoid loss on something that’s a rip just like it’s mine tell somebody shove it I didn’t sign anything on or take any merchandise from.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 10:50PM

    @ARCO said:
    You are willing to whore away your integrity for $100. That is what I just read.

    Calling me a whore now? Your funny. Having fun Calling me names huh - You side lost the debate. I am supposed bend over if somebody trying rip me for $100? I wouldn’t do it even if it was $10 lol.

    I have never backed out of a coin sale and rarely return stuff. In one instance I took shipping cost on the chin when a customer returned my coin to somebody else and his to me. What I notice here is a few of you trash people you can’t stand disagree with you. Many I have blocked (dropped with an F).

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:

    @ARCO said:
    You are willing to whore away your integrity for $100. That is what I just read.

    Calling me a whore now? Your funny. Calling me names huh - You lost the debate. I am supposed bend over if somebody trying rip me for $100? I wouldn’t do it even if it was $10 lol.

    No, he didn’t call you a name; he used a specific verb to illustrate an action, not a noun or adjective to describe you. In obvious context, we can turn to M-W for suss this one out: “to pursue a faithless, unworthy, or idolatrous desire.”

    And still you believe that someone is screwing you by simply expecting you to follow through with a deal that had obvious potential pitfalls.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    I can certainly appreciate where y'all are coming from in the business of buying/selling/trading for a living and even serious collectors. If this was my circle I would definitely be on your side with the "honor your word" argument. Which I stated to the OP early. If he wanted to continue business with the seller he should pay.
    But in Texas, as a private individual seller...cash is king!
    I'm not saving seats or putting up a coin just because someone said they were going to buy it. Some guy wants to buy my stuff and he'll "run to the bank" hey that's great...hope it's still here for you when you get back. If someone comes in behind in 5 minutes with cash in hand SOLD! That's how it is around here. You either pull up Tom Cruise and show me the money or see ya never.

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or, "How to destroy your reputation on this forum for nothing."

    Smitten with DBLCs.

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:
    What’s worse than @cougar1978 being cavalier about not honoring agreements? His clicking on “LOL” in reply to a post by someone who advocates honoring agreements.

    He also appears to believe that the idea that one should honor their agreements makes one a bottom feeder.

    Maybe he's an expert in benthic optimal foraging.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Aotearoa said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or, "How to destroy your reputation on this forum for nothing."

    The OP did write:

    I did in fact pay the original price without contacting seller and am happy with the coin.

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    AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Aotearoa said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or, "How to destroy your reputation on this forum for nothing."

    The OP did write:

    I did in fact pay the original price without contacting seller and am happy with the coin

    I was not referring to the OP.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 12:37AM

    @Aotearoa said:

    @Zoins said:

    @Aotearoa said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or, "How to destroy your reputation on this forum for nothing."

    The OP did write:

    I did in fact pay the original price without contacting seller and am happy with the coin

    I was not referring to the OP.

    It seems like it could be inferred as you were responding to a post about changing the thread title, which only the OP can do?

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    AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Aotearoa said:

    @Zoins said:

    @Aotearoa said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or, "How to destroy your reputation on this forum for nothing."

    The OP did write:

    I did in fact pay the original price without contacting seller and am happy with the coin

    I was not referring to the OP.

    It seems like it could be inferred as you were responding to a post about changing the thread title, which only the OP can do?

    🙄

    Smitten with DBLCs.

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    kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 5:14AM

    It's only $100 and going in your collection. Honor the deal and buy it. Who knows, next week it may be worth a $100 more than you paid. Would you then contact the seller and give it to him?

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    Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SonnyD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SonnyD said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or "1800's mindset in 2021"

    I have news for you Sonny Boy, it's also 2021 laws. You can be taken to court for breaking a contract, written or oral.

    In Texas anything over $500 HAS to be in writing or your suit will be dismissed. I know my State law, Sir.
    And on another note; you're going to waste more time and money in court to recoup what you could have sold to the next Joe?

    Sonny. I have many friends in Texas and they are honorable folks. You are apparently not. Do unto others? That’s not it. You are an example of a weasels behavior. You can not really only care about you? Really? What a lonely life as birds of a feather who only care about themselves.

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 6:17AM

    Why this unnecessary trashing of Sonny D? He is right on. Who are u J to trash a poster like that. Totally agree with him - cash is king. Has this place become like that show Fear the Walking Dead? I guess your another one I need to push ignore button on lol. No interest / use in what u have to say J.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    SonnyDSonnyD Posts: 190 ✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @SonnyD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @SonnyD said:

    @MasonG said:
    This thread needs to be retitled "How to completely blow your reputation for only $100".

    Or "1800's mindset in 2021"

    I have news for you Sonny Boy, it's also 2021 laws. You can be taken to court for breaking a contract, written or oral.

    In Texas anything over $500 HAS to be in writing or your suit will be dismissed. I know my State law, Sir.
    And on another note; you're going to waste more time and money in court to recoup what you could have sold to the next Joe?

    Sonny. I have many friends in Texas and they are honorable folks. You are apparently not. Do unto others? That’s not it. You are an example of a weasels behavior. You can not really only care about you? Really? What a lonely life as birds of a feather who only care about themselves.

    Maybe you have more time in your day than everyone else but my 24hrs are dedicated to me! Not sorry for that.
    What you call "honor" I call contradictory to capitalism....which is the world I live in.

    Ounce by ounce the stack grows .

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    Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Why this unnecessary trashing of Sonny D? He is right on. Who are u J to trash a poster like that. Totally agree with him - cash is king. Has this place become like that show Fear the Walking Dead? I guess your another one I need to push ignore button on lol. No interest / use in what u have to say J.

    Thank you. Don’t forget to block my cat he don’t care much for you or Mr.Texas

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

This discussion has been closed.