How should "None Graded Finer" be applied to non-red copper?
airplanenut
Posts: 22,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
This thought has come to mind before, and I was just reminded when I saw a RB copper coin listed with the note that none were graded finer at PCGS. I went to the PCGS pop report and saw that a few coins exist in the same numeric grade in RD (not to mention a few plus coins in RD, too).
Outside a RD coin where none finer seems pretty obvious--no other examples exist in a higher numeric grade--I've always thought "none finer" was ambiguous with copper. If I have a 66RB, is a 66RD finer because it's a "better" color or not finer because it's the same number? I'm not even sure how to compare a 66RB to a 65RD. When I describe such a coin, I'll always note the color ("66RB and none finer in RB" or "66RB and none graded higher than 65 in RD" or "66RB with X in 66RD and none graded higher than 66" or the like).
Non-copper is easy... it's just a question of numbers (though I suppose CAM/DCAM and PL/DMPL can get in the way, as well). What do you think when you see "none finer" or what do you think is appropriate or disingenuous about how such coins and their pops are presented?
Comments
You should use the qualifier “none graded higher in RB” if you want to be transparent and not disappoint someone who thought you meant none graded higher in RD, RB or B. It’s a grey area though, I would think.
Mr_Spud
Perhaps it would be good to say none finer in RB, xx higher in RD
Likewise CAM/DCAM, PL/DMPL
Agree that the "none finer or x finer" claim should be clarified in each case as to color or cameo distinction. I recently noticed a "none finer in RB" description. A description for higher grades might be something like "x graded finer in any color". I don't have a problem emphasizing the quality as long as the description isn't misleading, as was the case quoted in your first paragraph.
None graded higher for the grade and color designation.
or
None graded higher for this grade and color designation.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
None grated finer for the hard cheeses, such as romano and pecorino.
It's a good question and one that has been debated here in the past. I like the answers given so far. I'm a big RB copper fan and my issue is moreso with the registry which considers a 60RD higher than a 68RB because of the color designation. If I have a 67RB and there are no 67RDs or higher, than I consider that the finest of the date. JMHO.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
While “none graded finer” is a true statement, as a collector of colonial coins my interest would be none finer, period. There are A LOT of raw colonial coins that exist in large collections and are far finer that what are encapsulated.
You need to be careful with copper.
Is the color designation part of the grade? If it is then a 65RB, where a 65RD exist, can't be describe as having none finer. Take it a step further. If you have a 66BN and a 65RD exist can you describe the 66BN as having none finer?
A good description could handle a 66RB vs 65RD
I agree with these words, but since I don’t buy red copper, it does not matter to me. Given a choice between the respective Red or Brown copper on the same grade, I’ll take Brown coin with no spots. Very old old Red copper coins pose no allure for me because I’ve been burned on them.
I agree with your concern. I have seen descriptions in BN or RB that stated highest grade or none finer. Even looking at the PCGS cert lookup it will tell you there is 0 pop higher on a RB coin when there is a higher grade in RD. I have always considered the information as incorrect or misleading and do not agree with it.
This topic comes up with other designations - FBL, Full Steps, etc.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
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TPGs separate BN/RB/RD. I combine them. Both work.
I don't sell coins so I appreciate a post that is very honest about the quality of the coin that is being offered.
To many there is a significant difference between a RB and a RD coin.
I would prefer to buy the RD coin at the RB price. LOL
The buyer should do his due diligence researching all attributes prior to making an offer no matter what description is given.
Looking up the cert# always provides the information that I seek.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
None graded higher for the grade???
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
My consideration has always been that the grade applies to the condition of the coin, regarding strike, wear, dings or scratches. I did not consider color to be part of the grade. Certainly many prefer red copper to RB or BN.... That, to me, is separate from the grade - IMHO. Cheers, RickO
One way to eliminate this issue is to not have a BR, RB, or RD designation. Of course, that will never happen. Since I don't factor in condition rarity in my purchase decisions, I view it as a quirk of our hobby. I do agree with the suggested added language for accuracy sake.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Excellent point!
How about:
Highest graded (or, if applicable, tied for highest graded) for this color designation.
or
Highest graded (or, if applicable, tied for highest graded) for a BN (or, if applicable, RB or RD) example.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would simply continue what you are doing. Saying none finer of those graded (at whatever service) in the color slabbed. Brown/ RB/ or Red. Registry points and various interests make "value" or "best" go all over the map.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
The words "none finer" only prompts me to reread the slab slower. The devil is in the details.