Coin Dealers - Avoiding scammers-payment methods accepted? Anyone still take checks from strangers?
Lakesammman
Posts: 17,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
Was thinking of the type of scammers that attend coin shows - other than cash, how are you avoiding bad payments, assuming you don't already know the customer??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
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If you are suspicious, you could tell the buyer you will ship after the check clears.
What's a "Check"?
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
I have ALWAYS paid cash for in person coin or bullion transactions. Cash and carry.
I find that most folks at a show that want to write a check are very sincere. And will alway pony up ID to corroborate the check. You can judge character….if something is off, I’d ask for a different payment method. Never has been a problem for me yet….knock wood.
Wouldn't take the chance.
Cash or after the check clears.
It is that sad.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I don't know about now, but at shows, someone I know is respected by the industry vouches for my check, and I have not had any dealer have a problem accepting it. I will also let the dealer take a pic of my driver's license as well, and if I am having someone look at his coin, leave my driver's license with said dealer.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Take PayPal, cash or credit cards.
Only take checks from people you know or that someone you can trust will vouch for.
I remember years ago when i used to help a national dealer who is since retired. I was at his table, and guy walks up and buys two draped bust dimes, 1802 & 1804 total was like 21k. He writes the dealer a check ,and dealer takes it and gives him the coins He really didnt even know they guy that well. I said "how do you know the check is going to be fine" his exact words, He seems legit and most people that come into a show like this (just happen to be the ana) are serious buyers and not shiesters. Shortly after that, he let me sell my 1893-s PCGS 50 Morgan at his table for a small fee, i agreed on price with a dealer customer, and he proceeded to write me a check. The dealer I was helping did not know him, so I told the guy I was a little uncomfortable with just hadning over the coin, so he let me mail it to him after funds cleared. it went smoothly.
I remember one time I wanted to buy a walking liberty half at a dealers table I didnt know, it was only about 1600.00. The guy really didint want to just let me have it , not knowing me, so i offered the same, for him to ship it later.
Nowadays and for some time, i know and have done business with several well known dealers, that Idont have to worry about carrying cash especially at the larger shows, in fact several would probably be comfortable with me to take a 6 figure coin on approval.
It just basically comes down to once people get to know you and you do enough business, its not usually a problem .
Dealing with large quantities of cash is becoming increasingly difficult. Lots of dealers would prefer checks from buyers they can trust.
Just have them hold their finger on this while you count the money; fingerprint reader:
https://amazon.com/Fingerprint-DDSKY-Portable-Security-Biometric/dp/B07G717DT9
I always ask them if there is a dealer at the show that knows them and ask that dealer if he would take a check from them.
Never had a problem going that route.
Yup, frequently that happens…oh, so-and-so knows me, they point him out, get his attention, hold up a check, guy nods, etc. a lot of ways to establish bonafides….
Alternately, PP, square, Venmo, sellers, etc….
I’m not comfortable carrying around large sums of cash. I’ve written a couple 5K checks at coin shows. Didn’t know either dealer. One looked at my ID and handed over the coin. The other preferred sending me after coins after my check cleared. Worked well for me.
Dave
I did not realize that using cash has become more difficult. The larger numbers have made it easier for me plus they all have shades of different colors
Collectors aren't the only ones that write bad checks. A dealer friend of mine once got a bad check from another dealer that does the coin show circuit. At the next coin show he wrote "BAD" on the check in bold red letters with a red magic marker and then prominently displayed it in one of his display cases. It didn't take long before someone told the other dealer who then quickly ran over to buy his check back with cash.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have a good story to share. Several years ago I went to my very first coin show, Winter FUN. Not knowing protocol, I didn’t bring any checks or extra cash, as I had credit cards. I saw a nice Seated Quarter I needed that was being sold at a very fair price by Gary Adkins. When I gave him my credit card to pay for it, he gave me an odd look, and said that he and most dealers don’t take credit cards. He saw I was perplexed, as I had no other form of payment. He then took my name (and I believe my address and phone number, but maybe not) and then gave me the $1,500 coin and his card to take home, and told me to just mail him a check once I got home (which I did). I was shocked!
Subsequently, I bought several gold coins for my Gold Type Set from him via telephone!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Back in the 80's when I was going to a dozen shows a year with a friend of mine, he would accept checks with ID. At most of these shows, Silvertown was set up. Two hours before the show ended Leon and his crew would buy checks from the other dealers. Usually 5% back. Leon went home with a couple of hundred checks. Did I mention that he also owned the bank where they were deposited.
At shows, I usually deal in cash (when I used to go to shows out west). I always took a large amount of cash with me. Online, CC or PayPal... I still deal in cash at gun shows now (and occasionally buy a coin at those shows too). Cheers, RickO
USPS money orders take the place of $1000 bills now if you don't want to carry around a thick wad of hundreds.
They don't expire & only cost two bucks.
My Saint Set
Yes, but it is worth noting that those have been counterfeited.
Apparently they can be verified like a PCGS slab. Punch in the numbers and hit enter.
https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/usps-introduces-online-money-order-status-tool/
My Saint Set
At shows I take cash only. The entertainers at Ritz Houston don’t take checks so why should a coin dealer at a show lol.
Cash talks BS walks.
In 1975 I had a bourse table at the CSNS show in Kansas City. On Sunday afternoon ,as I was packing up to catch a plane home , a customer came to my table. I had never seen him before. He looked at a gem Uncirculated Flying Eagle Cent I had. We agreed on a price and he wrote me a check. When I got on the plane I started to worry about the check. I thought about the check for about 3 weeks. The check was good.
Scammers don't usually buy flying eagle cents. They would go after AGE's, double eagles, K-Rands, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Unless they are sophisticated scammers... 😉
A buyer here sent me an e-check and I shipped the coin swiftly based on his solid credentials. Smart dealers can in person size up the buyer with esoteric coins with a recourse in case of a problem.
I did business with American Metals out of Oregon which shipped before they got a check for many thousands in gold bullion which struck me as excessive trust. The transaction went well and that level of trust buys loyalty.
In 1975 there were no AGE's. A gem Flying Eagle was worth more than several $20'S.
Last few times I used a check at a show I would tell them dealers who knew me and they ran over to their table then took my check.
I always take cash to shows. I do see dealers with their signs saying they take paypal and credit cards. I have also been taking stuff from my collection to shows to use as trade or barter with to get something I really want. I cannot tell you the last time I wrote a check.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
I've posted this before, but --
A few years ago at the ANA WFoM, I was sitting at a dealer's table talking about random stuff.
A guy comes up, asks to look at something. As I'm just chatting, I let them work the business. They discuss price and the guy says "will you take my check" "do you have any references" "oh, J.... across the way knows me".
So the dealer I'm talking with bellows out "Hey J.... should I take this guy's check?"
Dealer J... looks up and yells back "Hell no, send him over to my table and I'll take his check"
With that kind of reference, the deal was swiftly completed.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I don't generally use checks. If I can't afford something right then and there I simply do without. My collection interests are so wide and varied that there's never a time I can't find something at any price point that interests me.
I have always laughed at somebody try use some dealer as ref. Solvency is a point in time.
I would have a hard time trusting anything but cash
in my work, I've seen so many scams, bad checks, fake money orders and cashiers checks, good checks and cashiers checks (!) reversed like credit card chargebacks months later ostensibly for fraud, even wires reversed months later for the same reason
even if the customer isn't trying to scam you, if they go bankrupt a month later, your transaction would be scrutinized in court
or vice versa, if you buy something from someone with a check, and it turns out there's a lien on the coin, or it's stolen, or it's on consignment and the seller doesn't pay the consignor, or the seller pays that consignor but not a bunch of others, or the seller or consignor goes bankrupt, then there's a paper trail that can lead to at least a hassle for buyer, potentially a loss
this side of the coin business fascinates me - it seems like the safest way to handle deals would be with escrow and insurance, like real estate, but I've never heard of that happening - it seems dealers and auctions self insure with profit/commissions and have a lot of faith in their business customs
That can get you sued.
Yes risks too high for me to take anything but cash at shows.
In early days of eBay I would not ship anything until payment cleared. One guy sent me a fake USPS money order. It was returned with note “I don’t want your fake mo nor your business.” He even tried argue about it. The gall of some of these bozo losers. I am not their bank and if they have the money they know where to find an ATM.
Had I not had my policy of not shipping until payment cleared (or mo cashed) I would have been ripped on a $650 item!
In the early days of eBay, I shipped when payment was received. Never lost a penny.
Yes there are players who will take checks from strangers but bc they are lucky does not mean their good. Once one gets burned their philosophy will change. I have taken checks under $50 at shows but I took down their DL number too. At least have a risk limit.
If you want take check on $500 item go for it then. It’s your money your risk. For me I am the one who sets my business policy.
Another thing, taking a check at a show has a sour taste. You don’t have the cash money from a sale to buy something from a wholesaler a table over (or walk up seller) which is part of why your setting up paying the table fee. Another reason I have no use for non cash buyers.
At Long Beach yesterday, I bought 1 coin and paid by check. The dealer didn’t know me but they readily accepted my check but wrote down my drivers license number, phone number and e-mail address. I also saw many other people paying by check. The ATM at the show had a sign on it saying out of order. I had stopped at a banks ATM before the show and had withdrawn the maximum which was $500. It would therefore be problematic to be able to sell many coins that cost more than $500 without accepting checks and dealers would only be able to sell low end coins worth less than $500.
I also saw flyers with a copy of a bad check all over the place on any empty table with a warning to not accept checks from that person.
Mr_Spud
Coins valued less than $500 are not low end coins. There is a very strong retail market for these as many coming in the bourse room don’t even have $300 to spend. Plus I can make a higher margin on them vs some $2500 item. Low end has to do with the grade range / please don’t insult lower budget collectors. What some other dealer does could care less. I have many coins over $1000 many gold. I would never take a check at a show on a gold coin for instance lol. Further more I have many private retail clients who pay cash.
Yes there may be bad check warnings about a person but that doesn’t cover the potential of some other crook coming the door.
Accept the check, when it clears ship the coin.
I remember a Winter FUN when I forgot my check book. My regular dealers said no problem, just send the check when you get home and away I went with the coins. So it pays to know the dealers and build relationships......
Best, SH
I would take their check at a show on a purchase over $50 however I would ship the item to them only when the check cleared. Payment has to clear before I ship or give them the coin / banknote. I am not a grantor of credit lol. When I sell something I want the money, not their lame Spiel. Relationship lol sounds like a toxic one if I were giving them material without pmt.
In the last 5 years, the only checks I have written have been for coin purchases. It’s the only reason I keep a checkbook.