Inexperienced at grading, what prevented this seated half from pr64?
DeplorableDan
Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not experienced at all with coin grading but id like to learn more. I understand the basic principles but the tough part for me is understanding how grading differs from series to series. I picked up this proof seated half recently and it looks to be pretty lustrous for 160 year old silver, perhaps it was even dipped at one time? The strike looks decent and the fields are clean, with extra lighting there's like one little scratch to the right of her knee. It looks as good if not better than some ms64 coins I have but i don't have a lot of proof coins. any insight or knowledge is much appreciated.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Comments
Hairlines and/or surface etching by the toning.
peacockcoins
In most cases, it’s virtually impossible to provide accurate grade assessments of proof coins based on images. That’s because many more times than not, the grade is largely dependent upon the extent of hairlines, which aren’t (fully) apparent in images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Excessive dipping / processing
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The coin has plenty of hairlines and cabinet friction, plus numerous hits at Liberty's knees.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer, see my portfolio here: (http://www.donahuenumismatics.com/).
No matter the grade that is one nice coin and it would look great in any collection. Congratulations
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Most likely dipping/light hairline issues, but still … it’s a very nice Proof half.
Dave
As mark said, proof coins are nearly impossible to grade determine from photo's, but I see too many hairlines and disturbances in field for a 64
The dullish areas on the reverse and obverse would take it out of the PR-64 class. A PR-64 will have no dull spots in the fields, only minor marks. There is not a huge difference between the PR-64 and 65 coins aside from the fact that the PR-65 coins need better eye appeal and often original, never been dipped surfaces.
This is often the result of too much or dipping for too long.
And if not original surfaces at least glassy mirrors or unbroken textures
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Really appreciate everyone whos chiming in here, its helping me out alot. I'm mainly going to be focusing on pre 33 gold moving forward but I always loved the seated half for some reason
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I suspect hairlines, but it is a very nice coin.
Probably not a cac potential coin, just not enough originality.
Hairlines definitely, dipped likely.
Buying and Selling coins for 54 years, 700+ shows in last 20 years, and boy am I tired.
Purchased and Trademarked the Mohawk Valley Hoard
Originated the Rochester (NY) Area Coin Expo
I don't see the hairlines. There could be some.
I immediately thought that it looked heavily dipped and unnatural.
Lifeless fields. Fingerprints apparent.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
The obv fingerprint will do it.
BHNC #203
Hairlines and a couple of dings in the obverse fields... Looks properly graded to me. Cheers, RickO
There are fingerprints on many coins of higher grades. It's unlikely that the print accounts for the grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My type coin for the No Motto , Seated Liberty half dollar is a Mint State piece.
Here's the closest I have to the OP coin. This piece is graded PR-64.
Hairlines only become fully visible at a very specific angle, so the coin has to be held and tilted to get just the right angle to fully view any hairlines. That's why photos don't really work for viewing hairlines. Dull luster and pale color also suggest dipping.
Too many hairlines and a generally bland appearance. It has probably been dipped more than once.
Given your self-proclaimed lack of experience and the way you mix numismatic terms in your post, I would strongly suggest you stop buying coins you don't understand and instead learn first-hand, if possible, about coins before going farther.
It may read as though I am a jerk, but I am giving you the best advice you have received in this thread.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
okay, but---
BHNC #203
Dippy-do too much.
Outstanding coin and your pictures are second to none.
I would also say the hairlines and the rub mark on the left knee are the reason for the 63.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I understand, that's probably sound advice, but I learn best by making mistakes. I buy coins at a price point that I could liquidate them with minimal loss and if I need to. There are some coin dealers in my area but they double as jewelry stores and I'm sure that their prices are insane. And I'm not the type to waste someone's time if I'm not buying anything. If anyone knows of any reputable places in south Florida then I would check it out for sure, but south Florida is a land of fraud and overpriced stuff . But I see now that when buying a coin online pictures can definitely be deceiving. Thank you for your advice!
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
If you take a close look at the trueview, it looks like there are plenty of hairlines in the fields. @DeplorableDan, take a close look at the trueview and then look at the real coin, moving the light around till you can see them "in the flesh"
Hairlines on a proof will do it every time.
In early January in Orlando, you can attend the biggest coin show of the year (sponsored by FUN - Florida United Numismatics) and see in hand thousands of coins from hundreds of dealers. This would be a great opportunity to dunk yourself into the hobby and learn. Believe me, it's worth the trip especially if you can easily drive to attend.
funtopics.com/fun-convention.html
Also, get familiar with CoinFacts that has an image database and auction prices realized info at your fingertips
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts://
Oh nice, ill definitely clear my schedule, Orlando is a few hour drive so not too bad. Thanks for the heads up! and I have been utilizing coinfacts as far as auction values and realized prices, the main thing I need to work on is examining the images better and trying to make sure that when I buy a slabbed coin I'm not buying a less desirable example. I'm probably gonna just be more patient and bid more on great collections or heritage, where the pictures are better quality, rather than trying to pick coins off of eBay.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR