I enjoyed reading your passionate OP and viewing some really special coins in your box of twenty .
The only question/ comment I have is how can you limit yourself to around 20 coins given the mantle you wear as a coin collector over the last 50 years?
Me , I’m an outright sick addict when it
comes to coin collecting .
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I appreciate the expertise of CAC, PCGS and NGC - hard for those of us with non-coin careers to be great graders like some dealers are. I expect many dealers are as good at reading CT/MRI exams as I am at grading coins. I greatly appreciate the opinions of experts.
I have a nagging thought - wondering what the eventual succession plan is for CAC?? No one can grade forever. Perhaps 1st generation CAC stickers will be collectible??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
@amwldcoin said:
You have been collecting for 50 years and haven't learned how to evaluate a coin for yourself? Sorry you have to insult your integrity with such a long post!
So many forum members tell people to learn how to grade. Nothing is wrong with relying mainly on TPG and CAC for accurate grading and authenticity. Why ridicule people for their lack of grading skills. Many collectors understand eye appeal, strike and luster. They may not have the skills to detect high point friction, pvc, hairlines, altered surfaces. Maybe they don’t have the time or inclination to become students of grading or taking courses to learn. Doesn’t mean they don’t have knowledge enough to be intelligent consumers of buying coins.
@Weiss... Thank you for your insightful summary of your experience and perspective. It was interesting and you made good points. Very nice coins as well. Cheers, RickO
My true intention wasn't to insult but I certainly did. I am just weary of all the CAC posts...obviously which I do not support and don't think our hosts should either. Weiss is the tenor in the CAC Choir!
I know this statement is going to get me in somewhat hot water but I'm going to make it. It seems like folks here are trying to Ram CAC down everyone's throats. This is the same to me as the LGBTQ issue. Do what ever floats your boat but don't shove it down my throat. I have friends and relatives of that persuasion and they know I don't agree with their choices. I don't hold it against them and they don't try to change my opinion and we get along just fine.
( Well, the sky isn't really blue, it just appears to be blue due to light absorption...)
Somehow I knew I'd run into you tonight. Yes Jack, and that is also why the birds "Blue Jays" seem blue - but they really are brown from the pigment melanin.
You could just laugh at the joke...> @amwldcoin said:
My true intention wasn't to insult but I certainly did. I am just weary of all the CAC posts...obviously which I do not support and don't think our hosts should either. Weiss is the tenor in the CAC Choir!
I know this statement is going to get me in somewhat hot water but I'm going to make it. It seems like folks here are trying to Ram CAC down everyone's throats.
Non-sequitur ignored and not copied.
You could make the opposite argument. CAC is an option. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. Why do you want to take the option away from people who do like it?
@amwldcoin said:
You have been collecting for 50 years and haven't learned how to evaluate a coin for yourself? Sorry you have to insult your integrity with such a long post!
Don’t be a jerk
To build, I have walked by your case at many shows peering in and wondering how you can continue tomorrow yourself in the back > @amwldcoin said:
My true intention wasn't to insult but I certainly did. I am just weary of all the CAC posts...obviously which I do not support and don't think our hosts should either. Weiss is the tenor in the CAC Choir!
I know this statement is going to get me in somewhat hot water but I'm going to make it. It seems like folks here are trying to Ram CAC down everyone's throats. This is the same to me as the LGBTQ issue. Do what ever floats your boat but don't shove it down my throat. I have friends and relatives of that persuasion and they know I don't agree with their choices. I don't hold it against them and they don't try to change my opinion and we get along just fine.
@JBN said:
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
The notion of CAC validating that an older holder (whose generation has been 'picked over' by crackout artists) does hold a strong-for-the-grade coin is a new take for me.
Interesting take on the old saying 'bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' pertaining to the comment on coins without a CAC sticker garnering more interest than the same coin stickered.
How many years have these CAC threads been going and going and going? Such legs on this issue....
Your examples are first rate - the silver dollar looks fab and the gold dollar appears to have potent luster - hopefully you'll share some of the other 15. Tip of the cap on being able to limit yourself to the box of 20 concept.
This collage is a little out of date--my photography skills have improved since this was updated in the last couple of years. But you get the idea:
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
Do you really think you have the right to appreciate and collect as you please, without being ridiculed by some of those who have different opinions?
understanding this comment was made sarcasticlly in part, I don't infer criticism of CAC or those who seem to worship at the alter of John Albanese as people wanting to deny anyone any sort of right(s) to do as they choose. I think it's more simple than that.
I think a lot of members are just sick and freakin' tired of hearing about CAC. it is a permanent part of the Hobby landscape, everyone gets that and is trying to adjust. I would question why members insist on tearing off the scab to incite what they know are very strong feelings both pro and con towards CAC. threads of this sort bring out the worst of what the forum has to offer and always have the possibility of putting someone at risk. all it takes is some member being prompted to make an ill-advised post, followed by a moderator who is quick on the trigger.
do we really need that?? it gives understanding to the past PCGS habit of deleting threads like this at their earliest convenience. I wish they would reconsider that practice. these kind of threads benefit nobody and serve no real useful purpose.
@amwldcoin said:
You have been collecting for 50 years and haven't learned how to evaluate a coin for yourself? Sorry you have to insult your integrity with such a long post!
So many forum members tell people to learn how to grade. Nothing is wrong with relying mainly on TPG and CAC for accurate grading and authenticity. Why ridicule people for their lack of grading skills. Many collectors understand eye appeal, strike and luster. They may not have the skills to detect high point friction, pvc, hairlines, altered surfaces. Maybe they don’t have the time or inclination to become students of grading or taking courses to learn. Doesn’t mean they don’t have knowledge enough to be intelligent consumers of buying coins.
Why ridicule people? Some posters feel that that they must advocate the only "righteous" way to collect; which is, of course, the way they collect. Their disdain for those who fail to see the light is palpable. It's much like religion or politics, ignore it and move on.
"It's not difficult to understand the concept of early conservative grading. With no basis for comparison and no information about surviving populations vs. mintages, especially for coins subject to the massive meltings experienced over the last century, it was prudent for reputable TPGs to be strict early on."
The most important thing that drove conservative grading IMHO was that this was the first time someone put their money (grade guarantees) where their mouth was (grades). While all of your points are valid, it is not a complete picture. But thanks for the post. I enjoy articulate threads.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
@amwldcoin said:
As a side...if the CAC choir keeps shoving the sh*t out on this forum I'll continue to attack!
I have always believed that if JA and others who are instrumental in establishing the TPGs , have had to embark on a new career overseeing the graders they hired to replace them, with an approval sticker, then it's all down hill from here. Except those at the top of the food chain are eating mighty fine foods. And this is the "sideshow". We can either sing with the choir or heckle and be tossed out.
I prefer getting a fair and right grade when I submit the first time . No second chances.
I may be in the minority, but I love these threads. When I read personal finance boards, I open the "should I pay off my mortgage?" topics, when I read Notre Dame football boards, I open the "should ND move on from Brian Kelly?" posts, and when I read coin boards, I open the CAC posts. I am not sure why, I can predict 90% of the commentary, but I am drawn to them like a moth to a flame.
To me, from a collector's perspective, it is fairly simple.. on the positive side, CAC facilitates commerce, particularly internet commerce such as auctions, where there might be limited return privileges. It gives me a sense of confidence that I am seeing what i think I'm seeing from the images, or that I am not missing a hidden problem. On the negative side, I have a lot of coins I purchased before CAC existed. I think many of these are solid, maybe even premium for the grade. When I consider trimming my collection and selling some of these, I am not thrilled at the prospect of jumping through an extra hoop to avoid leaving money on the table. There is also the perception that CAC has driven up the price of "solid/high-end for the grade" coins. I think there is some merit to this. Pre-CAC, a coin that was a 66.2 in a 65 holder more often than not sold for a premium price. I don't think CAC has driven up the price in that situation. But I think the price of a 65.4 in a 65 holder, solid for the grade that gets a green bean has increased. No one likes to pay more for the same quality coin, but it is what it is, presumably you get it back on the sale.
@jmlanzaf said:
You could make the opposite argument. CAC is an option. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. Why do you want to take the option away from people who do like it?
No, you can't ignore it even if you want to. Try putting any moderately valuable coin (sans bean) up for sale, and at least one or two potential buyers will ask you if it's been to CAC, in my experience. And if they don't ask you, that probably means they're assuming it failed to bean, and discounting their offer accordingly.
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
@Cougar1978 said:
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
"Take responsibility and learn how to grade"
So only expert graders should collect coins? It would be a mighty small market and a significantly smaller hobby.
Services like PCGS, NGC, and yes, CAC allow more people to confidently collect coins than would otherwise be the case.
@Cougar1978 said:
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
"Take responsibility and learn how to grade"
So only expert graders should collect coins? It would be a mighty small market and a significantly smaller hobby.
Services like PCGS, NGC, and yes, CAC allow more people to confidently collect coins than would otherwise be the case.
I never said who should collect coins lol - Numismatic Investment is risky if you are weak in grading, looking at coins. Taking responsibility in upgrading skill set / risk management is critical.
@Cougar1978 said:
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
"Take responsibility and learn how to grade"
So only expert graders should collect coins? It would be a mighty small market and a significantly smaller hobby.
Services like PCGS, NGC, and yes, CAC allow more people to confidently collect coins than would otherwise be the case.
I never said who should collect coins lol - Numismatic Investment is risky if you are weak in grading, looking at coins. Taking responsibility in upgrading skill set / risk management is critical.
And are TPGs, CAC, etc. not part of risk management??
@jmlanzaf said:
You could make the opposite argument. CAC is an option. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. Why do you want to take the option away from people who do like it?
No, you can't ignore it even if you want to. Try putting any moderately valuable coin (sans bean) up for sale, and at least one or two potential buyers will ask you if it's been to CAC, in my experience. And if they don't ask you, that probably means they're assuming it failed to bean, and discounting their offer accordingly.
Same thing happens if you sell a raw coin. Similar thing happens with an old holders. In the end, you look at the coin and work out a deal.
You can hate ebay, auction archives and price guides also. They affect perception of value.
@Cougar1978 said:
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
Actually, given how many coins in old holders turned, there is probably a need for someone to verify the color of copper. I see a lot of RD holders with coins that seem more RB to me.
@CoinJunkie said:
No, you can't ignore it even if you want to. Try putting any moderately valuable coin (sans bean) up for sale, and at least one or two potential buyers will ask you if it's been to CAC, in my experience. And if they don't ask you, that probably means they're assuming it failed to bean, and discounting their offer accordingly.
Absolutely that would be me asking. I care about the quality of the surfaces, a bean tells me they are likely to be good, no bean tells me that they have a great chance of having issues. So yes, I will ask, every time there is no bean and be much more careful about purchasing it for that reason.
@AMRC said:
"It's not difficult to understand the concept of early conservative grading. With no basis for comparison and no information about surviving populations vs. mintages, especially for coins subject to the massive meltings experienced over the last century, it was prudent for reputable TPGs to be strict early on."
The most important thing that drove conservative grading IMHO was that this was the first time someone put their money (grade guarantees) where their mouth was (grades).
That might make sense if most of the graders owned a piece of the grading company, but they didn't. Speaking for myself, as a grader in 1987-88, I don't think I was all that concerned about the grading guaranty when I graded coins. On the other hand, the PCGS standard was a little looser than my own pre-PCGS standards, at least for grades above 64. I recognized that at the time and adjusted reasonably well, but I probably did still have a little bit of a bias towards the conservative side. I strongly suspect that a fair number of the other graders had similar issues.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@amwldcoin said:
You have been collecting for 50 years and haven't learned how to evaluate a coin for yourself? Sorry you have to insult your integrity with such a long post!
So many forum members tell people to learn how to grade. Nothing is wrong with relying mainly on TPG and CAC for accurate grading and authenticity. Why ridicule people for their lack of grading skills.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Overall I really don’t care. The bottom line for me can I make decent money on an acquisition. Some CAC coins I have handled made 50-100 pct markup for me others not. However non CAC material especially world has done as well for me and many even better. As far as the guy asking why something not CAC never encountered that issue on the bourse. CAC a very small pct of the Cert numismatic items on eBay and it just in classic US coins.
If can’t get an item at my price simply a moot issue for me. Only here seen such intense debate on the CAC subject (certainly it is a separate inventory class in the sheet with its own pricing structure).
@Justacommeman said:
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
On one of these two CAC threads, the argument has already been made that PCGS should not endorse CAC. So, I doubt the anti-CACcers care.
When ones head is up their tuchus the view is distorted. Deniers are criers
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
The Registry Set is nice but it could also be added to Cert Verification and the Price Guide.
Their manpower priorities may lay elsewhere
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
On one of these two CAC threads, the argument has already been made that PCGS should not endorse CAC. So, I doubt the anti-CACcers care.
When ones head is up their tuchus the view is distorted. Deniers are criers
m
To be fair, if this weren't a PCGS forum, you'd find people complaining about both TPGS's and CAC. Here, they embrace one and not the other.
I'm old enough to remember auctions that had grainy photos on paper and you could never be 100% sure what your purchase looked like until it arrived on the mail. PCGS and CAC have made it so much easier to buy material, especially widgets. There is very little mystery or risk in buying an MS65 1881-S Morgan $. That wasn't always the case.
@Justacommeman said:
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
On one of these two CAC threads, the argument has already been made that PCGS should not endorse CAC. So, I doubt the anti-CACcers care.
When ones head is up their tuchus the view is distorted. Deniers are criers
m
To be fair, if this weren't a PCGS forum, you'd find people complaining about both TPGS's and CAC. Here, they embrace one and not the other.
There has been talk about needing a CAC forum before, which would mitigate some of this.
I'm old enough to remember auctions that had grainy photos on paper and you could never be 100% sure what your purchase looked like until it arrived on the mail. PCGS and CAC have made it so much easier to buy material, especially widgets. There is very little mystery or risk in buying an MS65 1881-S Morgan $. That wasn't always the case.
True. It is interesting to think about the value of CAC for widgets. I also like how more and more widgets come with TrueViews, which wasn't always the case. I love getting widgets with TrueViews like this one. Coincidentally, this is a 1881-S, and since this is the date you mentioned, I wonder if this the ultimate widget date and if my coin is the ultimate widget coin?
@Justacommeman said:
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
True, but that wasn't always the case. CAC threads were routinely deleted in the early days under the forum rule that endorsing or dissing other companies (supposedly) isn't allowed here. As CAC became an undeniable force in the marketplace, PCGS came to the view that CAC was more valuable to them as an ally than as a competitor, which brings us to where we are today.
I view PCGS's stance as strictly acting in the best interests of their own business. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I don't read anything more into it than that. YMMV.
Comments
I enjoyed reading your passionate OP and viewing some really special coins in your box of twenty .
The only question/ comment I have is how can you limit yourself to around 20 coins given the mantle you wear as a coin collector over the last 50 years?
Me , I’m an outright sick addict when it
comes to coin collecting .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Appreciate the OP post - thanks for the thoughts!
I appreciate the expertise of CAC, PCGS and NGC - hard for those of us with non-coin careers to be great graders like some dealers are. I expect many dealers are as good at reading CT/MRI exams as I am at grading coins. I greatly appreciate the opinions of experts.
I have a nagging thought - wondering what the eventual succession plan is for CAC?? No one can grade forever. Perhaps 1st generation CAC stickers will be collectible??
So many forum members tell people to learn how to grade. Nothing is wrong with relying mainly on TPG and CAC for accurate grading and authenticity. Why ridicule people for their lack of grading skills. Many collectors understand eye appeal, strike and luster. They may not have the skills to detect high point friction, pvc, hairlines, altered surfaces. Maybe they don’t have the time or inclination to become students of grading or taking courses to learn. Doesn’t mean they don’t have knowledge enough to be intelligent consumers of buying coins.
@Weiss... Thank you for your insightful summary of your experience and perspective. It was interesting and you made good points. Very nice coins as well. Cheers, RickO
1st off I want to apologize to @Weiss
My true intention wasn't to insult but I certainly did. I am just weary of all the CAC posts...obviously which I do not support and don't think our hosts should either. Weiss is the tenor in the CAC Choir!
I know this statement is going to get me in somewhat hot water but I'm going to make it. It seems like folks here are trying to Ram CAC down everyone's throats. This is the same to me as the LGBTQ issue. Do what ever floats your boat but don't shove it down my throat. I have friends and relatives of that persuasion and they know I don't agree with their choices. I don't hold it against them and they don't try to change my opinion and we get along just fine.
Uncalled for. Please leave your views of [insert non-coin related group here] to yourself.
You could just laugh at the joke...> @amwldcoin said:
Non-sequitur ignored and not copied.
You could make the opposite argument. CAC is an option. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. Why do you want to take the option away from people who do like it?
To build, I have walked by your case at many shows peering in and wondering how you can continue tomorrow yourself in the back > @amwldcoin said:
Insert head smack emoji
Latin American Collection
This collage is a little out of date--my photography skills have improved since this was updated in the last couple of years. But you get the idea:
--Severian the Lame
Do you really think you have the right to appreciate and collect as you please, without being ridiculed by some of those who have different opinions?
understanding this comment was made sarcasticlly in part, I don't infer criticism of CAC or those who seem to worship at the alter of John Albanese as people wanting to deny anyone any sort of right(s) to do as they choose. I think it's more simple than that.
I think a lot of members are just sick and freakin' tired of hearing about CAC. it is a permanent part of the Hobby landscape, everyone gets that and is trying to adjust. I would question why members insist on tearing off the scab to incite what they know are very strong feelings both pro and con towards CAC. threads of this sort bring out the worst of what the forum has to offer and always have the possibility of putting someone at risk. all it takes is some member being prompted to make an ill-advised post, followed by a moderator who is quick on the trigger.
do we really need that?? it gives understanding to the past PCGS habit of deleting threads like this at their earliest convenience. I wish they would reconsider that practice. these kind of threads benefit nobody and serve no real useful purpose.
My error. I'm looking for a 35.
Why ridicule people? Some posters feel that that they must advocate the only "righteous" way to collect; which is, of course, the way they collect. Their disdain for those who fail to see the light is palpable. It's much like religion or politics, ignore it and move on.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
"It's not difficult to understand the concept of early conservative grading. With no basis for comparison and no information about surviving populations vs. mintages, especially for coins subject to the massive meltings experienced over the last century, it was prudent for reputable TPGs to be strict early on."
The most important thing that drove conservative grading IMHO was that this was the first time someone put their money (grade guarantees) where their mouth was (grades). While all of your points are valid, it is not a complete picture. But thanks for the post. I enjoy articulate threads.
I have always believed that if JA and others who are instrumental in establishing the TPGs , have had to embark on a new career overseeing the graders they hired to replace them, with an approval sticker, then it's all down hill from here. Except those at the top of the food chain are eating mighty fine foods. And this is the "sideshow". We can either sing with the choir or heckle and be tossed out.
I prefer getting a fair and right grade when I submit the first time . No second chances.
The existence of CAC doesn't mean you're not, you know.
I may be in the minority, but I love these threads. When I read personal finance boards, I open the "should I pay off my mortgage?" topics, when I read Notre Dame football boards, I open the "should ND move on from Brian Kelly?" posts, and when I read coin boards, I open the CAC posts. I am not sure why, I can predict 90% of the commentary, but I am drawn to them like a moth to a flame.
To me, from a collector's perspective, it is fairly simple.. on the positive side, CAC facilitates commerce, particularly internet commerce such as auctions, where there might be limited return privileges. It gives me a sense of confidence that I am seeing what i think I'm seeing from the images, or that I am not missing a hidden problem. On the negative side, I have a lot of coins I purchased before CAC existed. I think many of these are solid, maybe even premium for the grade. When I consider trimming my collection and selling some of these, I am not thrilled at the prospect of jumping through an extra hoop to avoid leaving money on the table. There is also the perception that CAC has driven up the price of "solid/high-end for the grade" coins. I think there is some merit to this. Pre-CAC, a coin that was a 66.2 in a 65 holder more often than not sold for a premium price. I don't think CAC has driven up the price in that situation. But I think the price of a 65.4 in a 65 holder, solid for the grade that gets a green bean has increased. No one likes to pay more for the same quality coin, but it is what it is, presumably you get it back on the sale.
No, you can't ignore it even if you want to. Try putting any moderately valuable coin (sans bean) up for sale, and at least one or two potential buyers will ask you if it's been to CAC, in my experience. And if they don't ask you, that probably means they're assuming it failed to bean, and discounting their offer accordingly.
Yes me too - so sick and tired of hearing about CAC. It’s simply a separate inventory class IMO. If a CAC coin comes my way, meets MY standards, and can buy at my price have no problem taking it into inventory. Otherwise this forum is about US Coins not one persons business venture.
What will they have next a service that guarantees (at that point in time) a coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder lol. Take responsibility and Learn how to grade and look at coins. Like lost yardage on a bad play call Tuition can be cruel.
"Take responsibility and learn how to grade"
So only expert graders should collect coins? It would be a mighty small market and a significantly smaller hobby.
Services like PCGS, NGC, and yes, CAC allow more people to confidently collect coins than would otherwise be the case.
Absolutely wonderful post!
Very interesting choice of coins to occupy about 25% of your collection.
I never said who should collect coins lol - Numismatic Investment is risky if you are weak in grading, looking at coins. Taking responsibility in upgrading skill set / risk management is critical.
He didn't say it was, you know.
And are TPGs, CAC, etc. not part of risk management??
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Same thing happens if you sell a raw coin. Similar thing happens with an old holders. In the end, you look at the coin and work out a deal.
You can hate ebay, auction archives and price guides also. They affect perception of value.
How many windmills do you want to tilt at?
Actually, given how many coins in old holders turned, there is probably a need for someone to verify the color of copper. I see a lot of RD holders with coins that seem more RB to me.
Absolutely that would be me asking. I care about the quality of the surfaces, a bean tells me they are likely to be good, no bean tells me that they have a great chance of having issues. So yes, I will ask, every time there is no bean and be much more careful about purchasing it for that reason.
Best, SH
I love it.
And why you picked them. : )
That might make sense if most of the graders owned a piece of the grading company, but they didn't. Speaking for myself, as a grader in 1987-88, I don't think I was all that concerned about the grading guaranty when I graded coins. On the other hand, the PCGS standard was a little looser than my own pre-PCGS standards, at least for grades above 64. I recognized that at the time and adjusted reasonably well, but I probably did still have a little bit of a bias towards the conservative side. I strongly suspect that a fair number of the other graders had similar issues.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I give up.
My Saint Set
Weiss I love the cut of your jib
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Let me fix that for you.
What are your thoughts on CAC?
For those who aren't aware or just want to ignore it and bitch about it anyways PCGS fully endorses CAC.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Overall I really don’t care. The bottom line for me can I make decent money on an acquisition. Some CAC coins I have handled made 50-100 pct markup for me others not. However non CAC material especially world has done as well for me and many even better. As far as the guy asking why something not CAC never encountered that issue on the bourse. CAC a very small pct of the Cert numismatic items on eBay and it just in classic US coins.
If can’t get an item at my price simply a moot issue for me. Only here seen such intense debate on the CAC subject (certainly it is a separate inventory class in the sheet with its own pricing structure).
The Registry Set is nice but it could also be added to Cert Verification and the Price Guide.
On one of these two CAC threads, the argument has already been made that PCGS should not endorse CAC. So, I doubt the anti-CACcers care.
When ones head is up their tuchus the view is distorted. Deniers are criers
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Their manpower priorities may lay elsewhere
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Agreed their priorities may lay else where.
So, I would interpret this as PCGS endorses CAC, but could more fully endorse it.
Imagine if slabs had a recessed oval area
To be fair, if this weren't a PCGS forum, you'd find people complaining about both TPGS's and CAC. Here, they embrace one and not the other.
I'm old enough to remember auctions that had grainy photos on paper and you could never be 100% sure what your purchase looked like until it arrived on the mail. PCGS and CAC have made it so much easier to buy material, especially widgets. There is very little mystery or risk in buying an MS65 1881-S Morgan $. That wasn't always the case.
There has been talk about needing a CAC forum before, which would mitigate some of this.
True. It is interesting to think about the value of CAC for widgets. I also like how more and more widgets come with TrueViews, which wasn't always the case. I love getting widgets with TrueViews like this one. Coincidentally, this is a 1881-S, and since this is the date you mentioned, I wonder if this the ultimate widget date and if my coin is the ultimate widget coin?
True, but that wasn't always the case. CAC threads were routinely deleted in the early days under the forum rule that endorsing or dissing other companies (supposedly) isn't allowed here. As CAC became an undeniable force in the marketplace, PCGS came to the view that CAC was more valuable to them as an ally than as a competitor, which brings us to where we are today.
I view PCGS's stance as strictly acting in the best interests of their own business. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I don't read anything more into it than that. YMMV.
From a previous brilliant and true post: A picture is worth 1000 words...and this one says it all.
He's back.
For how long? Get your bets in early.
Brilliant!
PCGS could pay CAC to only sticker their coins.
Why would CAC do that?
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