@Gazes said:
Alot of assumptions are out there. For instance, "prices are expensive now". We may look back in 5 years and find today's prices cheap.
For the very top end, prices have been going up for a long time and I think that will continue.
It’s the other coins rising recently that can use more examination of market trends. Certainly a lot of the hobbies people have now came out of the Great Depression so Covid hobbies may have a long life as well.
If the market continues to stay hot I hope to start seeing a vast amount of quality coins come up for sale in my price range ($500-$5,000).
Right now I don’t see very many available and I don’t see many coming down the pipe at Heritage. It may have to do more with what I collect than anything and my specific wants(pre ‘33 gold and CC Morgans).
I think part of the problem with pre ‘33 gold is when spot ran up here in the last few years people starting dumping their disposal coins and now there isn’t much left from those sellers.
We’ll see what happens. I will be patiently waiting…….
@keets said:
what is happening now is similar to what was happening through the first decade of the 2000's. the difference I see is that the first one was propelled by rising PM's and an overall hot market cycle, this one is propelled more by dealer greed and the fact that buyers have decided they only want to spend the money, not really looking forward in time(or caring) and being impatient.
both times, then and now, seem to be supported by dealer-to-dealer sales of 3-3+ times for each item. if a non-dealer interrupts that chain, they are quoted a high price and pony up. good luck to everyone in 5-10 years, that noise you hear will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth as the negative equity adds up.
How do you know ? In 5-10 years could be instead 'hip hip hooray' for the right coins.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@Zoins said:
We know prices are strong, but Laura is saying they are insane! Even Legend cannot buy coins now!
Meh. This is the same woman that swore Legend would absolutely buy the next legal 1933 Saint only to be blown out of the water on the Farouk coin earlier in the year if I recall correctly. Maybe the market is unusually strong or perhaps she isn’t the ultra strong bidder she says/may think she is. 🧐
It seems like a great time to sell off everything that isn’t irreplaceable, and wait to see if the prices will stabilize. If the anecdotes in this thread are representative of the larger market, it has a late 1980s vibe about it.
@Zoins said:
We know prices are strong, but Laura is saying they are insane! Even Legend cannot buy coins now!
Meh. This is the same woman that swore Legend would absolutely buy the next legal 1933 Saint only to be blown out of the water on the Farouk coin earlier in the year if I recall correctly. Maybe the market is unusually strong or perhaps she isn’t the ultra strong bidder she says/may think she is. 🧐
What do you know about bidding on expensive one of a kind coins anyway? Nothing....
You know nothing that goes into the thinking leading up to the auction about coins like that.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@keets said:
what is happening now is similar to what was happening through the first decade of the 2000's. the difference I see is that the first one was propelled by rising PM's and an overall hot market cycle, this one is propelled more by dealer greed and the fact that buyers have decided they only want to spend the money, not really looking forward in time(or caring) and being impatient.
both times, then and now, seem to be supported by dealer-to-dealer sales of 3-3+ times for each item. if a non-dealer interrupts that chain, they are quoted a high price and pony up. good luck to everyone in 5-10 years, that noise you hear will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth as the negative equity adds up.
I agree with the above. As the list of coins I wanted shrank, I found what Al wrote above to be true. They were hard to find, and by the time I found one, it had gone through a number of hands. I never bought any of them, because I didn't like the prices I was quoted.
Ten or so years later, repeat. Occasionally I found something, but it took years each time. The Coronet Head Large Cent in PC 5 RB I stumbled upon at a show and immediately paid CRO for it. Ditto re an early date Capped Bust Half in PC 4 with the best strike I've ever seen on a coin of the series. I had long since given up finding either of them.
Also found a nice AU Heraldic Eagle Bust Dollar. Got a call from a major player who knows what I like, looked at it and bought it immediately.
Prices were reasonable, but not cheap, on all items. Haven't bought anything in nearly five years. Still looking for three more coins.
Be patient. Continue with hunt, and leave your ego out of it. Eventually you'll probably find what you are looking for. Most coins are not rare. And remember, it's a great hobby for collectors, but it's a hobby.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
No, the winning bidder bough the COIN for that amount. If he’d bought the holder, the price would have been much less.
I doubt it !
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@ReadyFireAim said:
There was only one saint I wanted from the ANA auction & I was following it all day.
When it came down to the auction, I kept pushing the button.
I'm thinking to myself, no way this guy is a bigger idiot than me.
I was wrong
I’ve been there many times during a Heritage Auction. It is really disappointing when you have looked forward to a lot, prepared to pay a strong price, only get blown out.
There was one British coin I really wanted. I was prepared to pay five times the estimate and three times the previous high bid. In other words, I was ready to get buried.
It didn’t matter. Another bidder drove it passed my highest bid beyond my expectations. Almost immediately, the winner had it up on “Buy it from the owner” for a $10,000 advance in price, from $15,000 to $25,000.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@ReadyFireAim said:
There was only one saint I wanted from the ANA auction & I was following it all day.
When it came down to the auction, I kept pushing the button.
I'm thinking to myself, no way this guy is a bigger idiot than me.
I was wrong
I’ve been there many times during a Heritage Auction. It is really disappointing when you have looked forward to a lot, prepared to pay a strong price, only get blown out.
There was one British coin I really wanted. I was prepared to pay five times the estimate and three times the previous high bid. In other words, I was ready to get buried.
It didn’t matter. Another bidder drove it passed my highest bid beyond my expectations. Almost immediately, the winner had it up on “Buy it from the owner” for a $10,000 advance in price, from $15,000 to $25,000.
@ReadyFireAim said:
There was only one saint I wanted from the ANA auction & I was following it all day.
When it came down to the auction, I kept pushing the button.
I'm thinking to myself, no way this guy is a bigger idiot than me.
I was wrong
I’ve been there many times during a Heritage Auction. It is really disappointing when you have looked forward to a lot, prepared to pay a strong price, only get blown out.
There was one British coin I really wanted. I was prepared to pay five times the estimate and three times the previous high bid. In other words, I was ready to get buried.
It didn’t matter. Another bidder drove it passed my highest bid beyond my expectations. Almost immediately, the winner had it up on “Buy it from the owner” for a $10,000 advance in price, from $15,000 to $25,000.
Did d it sell at $25k?
No, it’s still sitting there. The wording is “make an offer $26,200 or higher.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
@scubafuel said:
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
The winner must have upped the minimum bid he will accept because it is way over the usual increment that you normally see over the prices realized.
As the second sentence, I agree. I am still buried in many of my early gold purchases I made eight or nine years ago, according to the Grey Sheet. For example, an 1808 $2.50 gold in an Old Green PCGS AU-50 holder.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
He "LOVED THE COIN". sometimes the holder reflects the excellence of the coin.
@scubafuel said:
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
The winner must have upped the minimum bid he will accept because it is way over the usual increment that you normally see over the prices realized.
As the second sentence, I agree. I am still buried in many of my early gold purchases I made eight or nine years ago, according to the Grey Sheet. For example, an 1808 $2.50 gold in an Old Green PCGS AU-50 holder.
It's not an increment, it's a percentage. 50% appears to be the new default.
No one knows the future. Half of you will be right. Half will be wrong. If you turn out to be right, you'll think it was because you were smarter. Might just be that you were luckier.
@jmlanzaf said:
No one knows the future. Half of you will be right. Half will be wrong. If you turn out to be right, you'll think it was because you were smarter. Might just be that you were luckier.
Luck is nothing more than being prepared for an opportunity when it presents itself…now where is my winning mega millions ticket😃
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@jmlanzaf said:
No one knows the future. Half of you will be right. Half will be wrong. If you turn out to be right, you'll think it was because you were smarter. Might just be that you were luckier.
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
He "LOVED THE COIN". sometimes the holder reflects the excellence of the coin.
And other times, a gold CAC sticker does.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
He "LOVED THE COIN". sometimes the holder reflects the excellence of the coin.
Sometimes not .Its a 1881 s Morgan.
People commonly pay premiums for coins in a OGH much less CAC green/gold stickers.
I think he paid a big premium price for that kind of holder for that kind of coin !
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@PhillyJoe said:
Nothing shows how over the top auctions have become like last night's Heritage Older Holder auction. I tracked 7 stunning coins that I would have been thrilled to own. Never saw so many gold CAC's in one auction. Three were over my max when I went to bid. I went 0 for 4 on the ones I did put a bid on. How do I define over the top?
Lot 91307 1881 S Morgan NGC 66 Gold CAC. Price guide for a 66 is around $375-450. Population in PCGS 66 is 15,000 and NGC is 18,000. Obviously high end 66 which is why I bid 67 money which is $1,000.
I got a message last night that it sold for $3,400 ($4,080 BP).
That auction was nuts. I had my eye on 6 coins. Got one, and I paid up for it too. Everything else I was just ran outta town on. I went pretty hard at the 82-S in 64PL and that finished for stupid money for what it is.
The nice thing is it reaffirms that, at least for now, I'm taking my collection in the right direction by focusing on PQ coins in vintage holders.
RE that Morgan, I know the underbidder. Guy loved the coin, and I told him I expected it to sell for about $3k, but wouldn't be too surprised if it went higher, but I figured the max was $4k. Looks like my max was $100 off. Some insight for you, though... 15 gold CAC 66's, 1 gold CAC 67. That is RARIFIED air for a Morgan.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
He "LOVED THE COIN". sometimes the holder reflects the excellence of the coin.
Sometimes not .Its a 1881 s Morgan.
People commonly pay premiums for coins in a OGH much less CAC green/gold stickers.
I think he paid a big premium price for that kind of holder for that kind of coin !
Yes, we know it’s an 1881–S and I bet the bidders knew it, too. 😉 The type and date of the coin seems to be coloring your thinking.
While people pay premiums for such holders and stickers, it’s very rare to see such a dramatic premium. And we haven’t heard that the underbidder, who was said to love the coin, said anything about the holder or the sticker. Think as you please. I choose to believe that at least two bidders bid on the COIN.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
One thing I like about Laura's posts is that she lists specific coins.
I would be interesting to see the difference over PCGS Price Guide values. One of the coins listed sold for 247% over PCGS Price Guide!
Here are the coins.
Laura Sperber wrote:
The Simpson coins brought numbers we couldn’t even imagine. Its not a good time to collect Standing Quarters! Better time to sell them (do NOT expect those prices or even close).
The 1794 Strickland Dollar and 1911-D half eagle have already had their Price Guide prices updated to $7.0M and $350 respectively but other coins have not had their values changed yet. Does anyone know the Price Guide values for these coins before they were adjusted?
Here are two of the quarters. Imagine paying 243% over Price Guide?
1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson 243% Over Price Guide
Regarding the 1920-D SLQ, I noticed from the photo above that it's a coin with multiple TVs. Here are two full size ones as seen the above. Always great to see multiple quality photos of a coin.
“1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson
243% Over Price Guide”
Read my previous comment on this thread. It was an amazing buy at auction originally for around $8,500 for JHF!! For some reason, Coinfacts still doesn’t show the subsequent sale of the coin in the JHF Stacks auction.
As for the 1920-D MS68+FH (with I believe prior history recently added to Coinfacts) read the fabulous Heritage lot description on the coin where it just yielded the World Record price. It says it all! Just another amazing coin from the greatest SLQ collection ever built with the JHF pedigree now removed (forever?) and replaced. But, perhaps it might get added back later by the new owner one day. Heritage had the entire pedigree nailed even with, at the time of the catalog press release, the Stacks sale history inadvertently not showing. Again, that was a lot description JHF would have been blown away by (and it didn’t hurt the sales price either). Mark- maybe Dan is reading it from the heaven above.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
“1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson
243% Over Price Guide”
Read my previous comment on this thread. It was an amazing buy at auction originally for around $8,500 for JHF!! For some reason, Coinfacts still doesn’t show the subsequent sale of the coin in the JHF Stacks auction.
As for the 1920-D MS68+FH (with I believe prior history recently added to Coinfacts) read the fabulous Heritage lot description on the coin where it just yielded the World Record price. It says it all! Just another amazing coin from the greatest SLQ collection ever built with the JHF pedigree now removed (forever?) and replaced. But, perhaps it might get added back later by the new owner one day. Heritage had the entire pedigree nailed even with, at the time of the catalog press release, the Stacks sale history inadvertently not showing. Again, that was a lot description JHF would have been blown away by (and it didn’t hurt the sales price either). Mark- maybe Dan is reading it from the heaven above.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Mitch, I hope so and with a proud smile on his face.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm clearly at the lower end of the Market as a collector, but an unexpected $1300 stimulus check right after closing on a house freed up some cash so I could actually buy some coins too. I'm on a pretty strict coin budget, so having that much disposable income fall in my lap made it much easier to "grease that wheel"... and spend the money.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@scubafuel said:
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
My thoughts exactly. What we call insanity, traditional investors call modest returns.
@scubafuel said:
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
My thoughts exactly. What we call insanity, traditional investors call modest returns.
Modest returns aren't generally considered 50% overnight though some stocks can feel that way!
The most I ever spent was for a 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle. Obviously I can relate to spending a large sum for that coin. When it comes to these pieces, not so much or not at all.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I have sold off a lot my US taking good profits over 100 pct plus Margin. Not buying much of anything……my Mexico low pop material seeing high demand. A guy bought some graded notes of mine I did well.
Who knows where we are in this cycle? I believe we're in a "everything mania". Unfortunately , if correct, when it ends everything will fall together and not just for a few months/ years but longer than most expect. Legend's comment simply adds another voice to the mix.
Yes, great opportunities will be had if that environment comes to pass. and one has some liquid assets to participate. .
I am reminded of the old axiom, "a fool and his money are soon parted". Are we almost there yet? I really don't know.
@jkrk said:
Who knows where we are in this cycle? I believe we're in a "everything mania".
There is no maybe about it. If you are familiar with historical comparisons, there isn't another time period which is even close. It's the same "everything mania" dating back to a least 2000 since that one never ended. It's been global too, though it varies by location and asset class.
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
@pcgscacgold said:
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
Taxes will eat up the same percentage of profits as always. I'm confused. No profit, no taxes. Big profit, big taxes.
@pcgscacgold said:
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
Taxes will eat up the same percentage of profits as always. I'm confused. No profit, no taxes. Big profit, big taxes.
People are talking about selling coins to take that money and buy more expensive coins. All I meant is it may be hard to find a replacement coin if you pull out what you will have to pay for taxes on the sale.
You bought a coin for $5000 and sold it for $10000. After paying the Federal and State taxes on that $5000 gain you may find you can't replace the coin. Maybe I am seeing that wrong.
@pcgscacgold said:
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
Taxes will eat up the same percentage of profits as always. I'm confused. No profit, no taxes. Big profit, big taxes.
People are talking about selling coins to take that money and buy more expensive coins. All I meant is it may be hard to find a replacement coin if you pull out what you will have to pay for taxes on the sale.
You bought a coin for $5000 and sold it for $10000. After paying the Federal and State taxes on that $5000 gain you may find you can't replace the coin. Maybe I am seeing that wrong.
I presume they are trying to find a $5000+ coin they want more.
@pcgscacgold said:
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
Taxes will eat up the same percentage of profits as always. I'm confused. No profit, no taxes. Big profit, big taxes.
People are talking about selling coins to take that money and buy more expensive coins. All I meant is it may be hard to find a replacement coin if you pull out what you will have to pay for taxes on the sale.
You bought a coin for $5000 and sold it for $10000. After paying the Federal and State taxes on that $5000 gain you may find you can't replace the coin. Maybe I am seeing that wrong.
I presume they are trying to find a $5000+ coin they want more.
That makes sense. I know capital gains also knock people out of Roth Contributions and IRA contributions when surprise income moves them above the caps.
I was blown out again in the Stacks auction today. Chased one to +25% the highest historical auction price (double PCGS guide) and still lost. CAC with a ton of eye appeal. C’est la vie.
@Zoins said:
One thing I like about Laura's posts is that she lists specific coins.
I would be interesting to see the difference over PCGS Price Guide values. One of the coins listed sold for 247% over PCGS Price Guide!
Here are the coins.
Laura Sperber wrote:
The Simpson coins brought numbers we couldn’t even imagine. Its not a good time to collect Standing Quarters! Better time to sell them (do NOT expect those prices or even close).
The 1794 Strickland Dollar and 1911-D half eagle have already had their Price Guide prices updated to $7.0M and $350 respectively but other coins have not had their values changed yet. Does anyone know the Price Guide values for these coins before they were adjusted?
Here are two of the quarters. Imagine paying 243% over Price Guide?
1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson 243% Over Price Guide
Comments
For the very top end, prices have been going up for a long time and I think that will continue.
It’s the other coins rising recently that can use more examination of market trends. Certainly a lot of the hobbies people have now came out of the Great Depression so Covid hobbies may have a long life as well.
If the market continues to stay hot I hope to start seeing a vast amount of quality coins come up for sale in my price range ($500-$5,000).
Right now I don’t see very many available and I don’t see many coming down the pipe at Heritage. It may have to do more with what I collect than anything and my specific wants(pre ‘33 gold and CC Morgans).
I think part of the problem with pre ‘33 gold is when spot ran up here in the last few years people starting dumping their disposal coins and now there isn’t much left from those sellers.
We’ll see what happens. I will be patiently waiting…….
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How do you know ? In 5-10 years could be instead 'hip hip hooray' for the right coins.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
This is not limited to coins. When possible, these are the people to avoid.
Life is too short.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Meh. This is the same woman that swore Legend would absolutely buy the next legal 1933 Saint only to be blown out of the water on the Farouk coin earlier in the year if I recall correctly. Maybe the market is unusually strong or perhaps she isn’t the ultra strong bidder she says/may think she is. 🧐
It seems like a great time to sell off everything that isn’t irreplaceable, and wait to see if the prices will stabilize. If the anecdotes in this thread are representative of the larger market, it has a late 1980s vibe about it.
What do you know about bidding on expensive one of a kind coins anyway? Nothing....
You know nothing that goes into the thinking leading up to the auction about coins like that.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
bidask
“Still a 1881 s .....the winning bidder bought the holder for around $3600”
No, the winning bidder bought the COIN for that amount. If he’d bought the holder, the price would have been much lower.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with the above. As the list of coins I wanted shrank, I found what Al wrote above to be true. They were hard to find, and by the time I found one, it had gone through a number of hands. I never bought any of them, because I didn't like the prices I was quoted.
Ten or so years later, repeat. Occasionally I found something, but it took years each time. The Coronet Head Large Cent in PC 5 RB I stumbled upon at a show and immediately paid CRO for it. Ditto re an early date Capped Bust Half in PC 4 with the best strike I've ever seen on a coin of the series. I had long since given up finding either of them.
Also found a nice AU Heraldic Eagle Bust Dollar. Got a call from a major player who knows what I like, looked at it and bought it immediately.
Prices were reasonable, but not cheap, on all items. Haven't bought anything in nearly five years. Still looking for three more coins.
Be patient. Continue with hunt, and leave your ego out of it. Eventually you'll probably find what you are looking for. Most coins are not rare. And remember, it's a great hobby for collectors, but it's a hobby.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I doubt it !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
You did intend this as a rhetorical question, right?
I’ve been there many times during a Heritage Auction. It is really disappointing when you have looked forward to a lot, prepared to pay a strong price, only get blown out.
There was one British coin I really wanted. I was prepared to pay five times the estimate and three times the previous high bid. In other words, I was ready to get buried.
It didn’t matter. Another bidder drove it passed my highest bid beyond my expectations. Almost immediately, the winner had it up on “Buy it from the owner” for a $10,000 advance in price, from $15,000 to $25,000.
Did d it sell at $25k?
No, it’s still sitting there. The wording is “make an offer $26,200 or higher.”
The “buy it from owner” thing on HA is an automatic software add. It usually has nothing to do with the owners intentions.
This market doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. Coins still lag stocks, real estate, other collectibles. Coin prices probably need to double from here just to keep up.
The winner must have upped the minimum bid he will accept because it is way over the usual increment that you normally see over the prices realized.
As the second sentence, I agree. I am still buried in many of my early gold purchases I made eight or nine years ago, according to the Grey Sheet. For example, an 1808 $2.50 gold in an Old Green PCGS AU-50 holder.
He "LOVED THE COIN". sometimes the holder reflects the excellence of the coin.
It's not an increment, it's a percentage. 50% appears to be the new default.
No one knows the future. Half of you will be right. Half will be wrong. If you turn out to be right, you'll think it was because you were smarter. Might just be that you were luckier.
What about the other half
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Luck is nothing more than being prepared for an opportunity when it presents itself…now where is my winning mega millions ticket😃
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Unlucky. [You'll probably find me in that half.
]
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And other times, a gold CAC sticker does.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Being prepared here means buying tickets!
Hmm, new gold coin or Mega Millions tickets?
Sometimes not .Its a 1881 s Morgan.
People commonly pay premiums for coins in a OGH much less CAC green/gold stickers.
I think he paid a big premium price for that kind of holder for that kind of coin !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Yes, we know it’s an 1881–S and I bet the bidders knew it, too. 😉 The type and date of the coin seems to be coloring your thinking.
While people pay premiums for such holders and stickers, it’s very rare to see such a dramatic premium. And we haven’t heard that the underbidder, who was said to love the coin, said anything about the holder or the sticker. Think as you please. I choose to believe that at least two bidders bid on the COIN.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
One thing I like about Laura's posts is that she lists specific coins.
I would be interesting to see the difference over PCGS Price Guide values. One of the coins listed sold for 247% over PCGS Price Guide!
Here are the coins.
The 1794 Strickland Dollar and 1911-D half eagle have already had their Price Guide prices updated to $7.0M and $350 respectively but other coins have not had their values changed yet. Does anyone know the Price Guide values for these coins before they were adjusted?
Here are two of the quarters. Imagine paying 243% over Price Guide?
1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson
243% Over Price Guide
1920-D Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS PR68+FH - Ex. Simpson
77% Over Price Guide
Regarding the 1920-D SLQ, I noticed from the photo above that it's a coin with multiple TVs. Here are two full size ones as seen the above. Always great to see multiple quality photos of a coin.
“1928 Standing Liberty Quarter - PCGS MS67+ FH CAC - Ex. Simpson
243% Over Price Guide”
Read my previous comment on this thread. It was an amazing buy at auction originally for around $8,500 for JHF!! For some reason, Coinfacts still doesn’t show the subsequent sale of the coin in the JHF Stacks auction.
As for the 1920-D MS68+FH (with I believe prior history recently added to Coinfacts) read the fabulous Heritage lot description on the coin where it just yielded the World Record price. It says it all! Just another amazing coin from the greatest SLQ collection ever built with the JHF pedigree now removed (forever?) and replaced. But, perhaps it might get added back later by the new owner one day. Heritage had the entire pedigree nailed even with, at the time of the catalog press release, the Stacks sale history inadvertently not showing. Again, that was a lot description JHF would have been blown away by (and it didn’t hurt the sales price either). Mark- maybe Dan is reading it from the heaven above.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Mitch, I hope so and with a proud smile on his face.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm clearly at the lower end of the Market as a collector, but an unexpected $1300 stimulus check right after closing on a house freed up some cash so I could actually buy some coins too. I'm on a pretty strict coin budget, so having that much disposable income fall in my lap made it much easier to "grease that wheel"... and spend the money.
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“ Prices are Total Insanity - Time Will Tell - by Laura Sperber”
I’ve said that after checking out her website.
My thoughts exactly. What we call insanity, traditional investors call modest returns.
Modest returns aren't generally considered 50% overnight though some stocks can feel that way!
This seems to be a great time to thin collections of "collectible" items like coins, sports cards and comic books. Keep the best and sell the rest.
The most I ever spent was for a 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle. Obviously I can relate to spending a large sum for that coin. When it comes to these pieces, not so much or not at all.
That 81-S is a 68 all day long, if not better.
Great discussion in this one.
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I have sold off a lot my US taking good profits over 100 pct plus Margin. Not buying much of anything……my Mexico low pop material seeing high demand. A guy bought some graded notes of mine I did well.
Damn near perfection.
Who knows where we are in this cycle? I believe we're in a "everything mania". Unfortunately , if correct, when it ends everything will fall together and not just for a few months/ years but longer than most expect. Legend's comment simply adds another voice to the mix.
Yes, great opportunities will be had if that environment comes to pass. and one has some liquid assets to participate. .
I am reminded of the old axiom, "a fool and his money are soon parted". Are we almost there yet? I really don't know.
There is no maybe about it. If you are familiar with historical comparisons, there isn't another time period which is even close. It's the same "everything mania" dating back to a least 2000 since that one never ended. It's been global too, though it varies by location and asset class.
Selling is ok for those that can take the capital gains hit (especially if held less than a year). The taxes would eat up almost all the profits. I am hopeful we will see a downturn as we head to the holidays.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Taxes will eat up the same percentage of profits as always. I'm confused. No profit, no taxes. Big profit, big taxes.
People are talking about selling coins to take that money and buy more expensive coins. All I meant is it may be hard to find a replacement coin if you pull out what you will have to pay for taxes on the sale.
You bought a coin for $5000 and sold it for $10000. After paying the Federal and State taxes on that $5000 gain you may find you can't replace the coin. Maybe I am seeing that wrong.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I presume they are trying to find a $5000+ coin they want more.
That makes sense. I know capital gains also knock people out of Roth Contributions and IRA contributions when surprise income moves them above the caps.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I was blown out again in the Stacks auction today. Chased one to +25% the highest historical auction price (double PCGS guide) and still lost. CAC with a ton of eye appeal. C’est la vie.
Those Standing Liberty quarters look like true full heads to me. Full shields, too.