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Love the coin but hate the holder

JmisJmis Posts: 112 ✭✭✭

I picked this dollar up recently. I really like the coin but hate the holder. I’d like to send it to PCGS for a crossover and TV. What should I expect?



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Comments

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Plastic is kinda plastic. If you’re going to do this 2 things
    1. Figure $50-70 to reslab
    2. You might not cross over on the grading.
    3. That company is known to be kinda unreliable with grading.
    4. Any way good luck
    5. Personally I would leave it alone
    6. 🤓🙀

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to tell from the photos. The coin looks decent. You could get a lower grade and you will spend around $80 to $100 for grading and shipping and insurance.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2021 6:29AM

    Hard to see the surfaces because of the glare in your pics but I think it’s pretty borderline 35-40 on wear. IMO if you choose cross at any grade comes back 35. If you crack you have a decent chance at a 40.
    I personally don’t mind it in that slab.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tough to tell from the images (the lighting is "hit-or-miss" leaving shadows) but it might be an old cleaning that has re-toned over many years. I'm looking at the stars in the left side of the obverse field... hairlines that might be on the plastic and darker toning closer to the devices. The reverse seems to have contact marks in the field, but they're consistent for the grade. Depending on what the coin looks like in hand, I think it would straight-grade... IMHO...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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  • AercusAercus Posts: 381 ✭✭✭✭

    So, kinda hard to tell from the pics but it APPEARS to be a nice wholesome original coin. I wouldn't try to cross, I would crack and submit. Figure 50 bucks for grading. You take the risk that it may not grade, but you apparently don't like the holder, so no big loss there. If it gets into a straight pcgs holder, it will be a lot more liquid should you decide to sell (I can hear the dealer you try to sell it to in current condition: "wellll it's not in a pcgs slab so best I can give you is vf details price").

    Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hate is a strong word. Not as strong as an ICG holder, but strong. Nice specimen.

  • HalfDimeDudeHalfDimeDude Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I would crack it out now! No need to worry about crossing over .Your image is clear enough to see that it is an xf 40 to 45 coin no question.
    I personally in 50 plus years of collecting have purchased one coin in a slab by this TPG.
    At which it was cracked out and I cant recall if I made it an album coin or had it regraded.
    I have no faith in ICG and would perfer a raw coin over one in that slab.
    I will say i do think the grade on the slad is in the ball park...but from your images I say it was xf-45.
    Depending on the coin I would send it into pcgs or ngc. The reason why you only get what you pay for....a $10 @ coin service is just that...you only get what you pay for.
    I have found out the hard way that other TPG's @$10 a coin need to do volume at that price point. I was also very disheartened to learn that vouchers they had included in another promotion were actually worthless! And were not honored on my next batch.
    I also was disappointed as I paid for a variety to be on the slab. With the correct attribution and they still refused to attribute the specimen properly.

    Peace of mind ,and money well spent is well worth the fee's of either pcgs or ngc charge. IMHO

    "That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if you aend it in i hope you do get a xf 45 :)

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2021 12:30PM

    Maybe you bought it because someone loved the coin but thought the holder "lessened" the coin "too much".
    In that case, you should love the holder for being hateable to others.

    Are those stains or shadows on the obverse? If not shadows, it's a details coin. My instincts say good meat, but clean'ish and AT'ish. In-hand, it could look better or worse.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I cracked out an ICG MS62 1921 Peace $1….is now PCGS MS64.

    You should get a 40 on that coin IMHO with our host.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it should cross. Nice one!

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crack it and submit it raw.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crack it out! I believe it will straight grade.

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks accurately graded.

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a legit XF coin to me. BTW, that's my favorite angle ... finding nice coins in 2nd and 3rd tier holders that many folks ignore.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wasn't aware PCGS crossed ICG coins.

    peacockcoins

  • JmisJmis Posts: 112 ✭✭✭

    I think I will crack it out and submit it raw. Thanks for feedback!

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    I wasn't aware PCGS crossed ICG coins.


    Link

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am assuming that the lines around stars three and four on the obverse are scratches on the holder or something the camera "invented." If they are on the coin, it will not cross and might not grade.

    They look like they are on the holder, but if they are not ...

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am now aware PCGS crosses ICG coins.

    peacockcoins

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2021 3:38PM

    Leave it alone and buy a new coin with the money your spending to change plastic. Somebody mentioned that you might not get a good offer from a buyer. Then walk. There’s zillions of people out there that understand buy the coin not the holder if any potential buyer doesn’t know that someone else will 🤓
    Just a thought 🤓
    BillJones is pretty dang knowledgeable and it’s not a guarantee

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    It looks accurately graded.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I believe most ICG coins are properly graded.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:

    @Smudge said:
    It looks accurately graded.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I believe most ICG coins are properly graded.

    I have several ICG slabbed gold coins and the grades are all spot on. :)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My experience with ICG has been that they have mostly correctly graded material. ICG was formerly ANACS and vice-versa. I think their criticism stems from their early days of grading a lot of PR70 stuff for teletrade.

  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crack and straight into my dansco 7070 if that was mine

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Buy the coin not the holder". Unfortunately bigotry against the second rung grading services is pervasive. I have found PCGS to be unbiased when sending in coins for crossover. The PCGS holder is one of the very best, but the coin should be the object of buying, just as we have many raw coin collectors still.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2021 6:12PM

    If you think it should go into a PCGS 40 holder, do NOT crack it. The extra "cross-over insurance" (sic?) is not meaningful.
    Mark the shipping address as "HOLD FOR SHIPPING INMSTRUCTION."
    If it crosses and you think it's a 45, you can generate a new submission for a regrade with the new serial number. You've just saved two shipping expenses. You also spent $70 on grading and likely wasted some money even at XF45, but if you want the coin in a PCGS holder, this is the protocol.

    The people who say "crack it and submit it"?. What can I say?
    I've spent over $100K in grading fees this century alone, I think crossover "insurance" on $500 is $20.
    YMMV

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:

    @Smudge said:
    It looks accurately graded.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I believe most ICG coins are properly graded.

    @PerryHall said:

    @koynekwest said:

    @Smudge said:
    It looks accurately graded.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I believe most ICG coins are properly graded.

    I have several ICG slabbed gold coins and the grades are all spot on. :)

    I think it depends on the time frame. Originally, they were solid. Currently, they seem solid. They're was a loose time in the middle.

  • KoveKove Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭✭

    When I first saw the coin i thought possibly cleaned and retoned.

    I would not crack and submit. You might get hit with a details surprise.

    I don't say it often, but this is a coin I would crossover service.

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My ICG crosses:

    AU 50 --> AU50
    AU55 --> AU55
    AU58 --> AU55
    MS62 --> MS63
    MS 62 --> AU58
    MS62 --> DNC (cleaning)

    No shame. ICG does a decent job.
    Lance.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2021 10:06PM

    @lkeigwin said:
    My ICG crosses:

    AU 50 --> AU50
    AU55 --> AU55
    AU58 --> AU55
    MS62 --> MS63
    MS 62 --> AU58
    MS62 --> DNC (cleaning)

    No shame. ICG does a decent job.
    Lance.

    Just wondering how 50 percent is a decent job. Not in any company I’ve worked for and none I’ve heard of. 🤓
    Does anyone think pcgs would be happy with 50 percent?🙀

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So just what is decent? Must all 6 cross at grade or improve? Or at least 4?

    We're talking about a a third world grading company versus the industry leader. ICG is getting little respect here.

    PCGS agreed with two, two dropped in grade, one bumped and one DNC'd. IMO that is decent. YMMV.
    Lance.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have a different expectation for quality control than I do. 50 ok with you that’s fine. I expect more that’s ok too. 🤓

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • youniqueyounique Posts: 882 ✭✭✭

    If you feel it'll cross or improve crack it. Otherwise hold on that idea. Could go backward. No experience with ICG.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2021 5:05AM

    @Jzyskowski1 said:
    You have a different expectation for quality control than I do. 50 ok with you that’s fine. I expect more that’s ok too. 🤓

    Quality control doesn't really apply when discussing differences between two TPGs' grading standards. Lance's results are about on par with (or better than) what one might expect trying to cross NGC ==> PCGS. No shame, indeed.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think ICG and NGC is a good comparison that’s ok one thing that sure hasn’t crossed my mind when I’m buying is to compare ICG to NGC or see them as comparable Well with those thoughts I’m happy to agree to disagree. Good night 🤓

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Generally ICG will reholder a coin with the tab alone, with pics you would have added protection. ICG is charging $12 now on economy. For dealers PCGS economy is under $30, if you send in the coin with a bunch of others you cut your costs which add up; shipping each way, invoice fee, grading fee, etc.. NGC does not crossover any but PCGS certified coins now; no dice on either ICG or Anacs, they crack them and grade them raw.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    @Jzyskowski1 If ICG and PCGS disagree on a grade opinion, you apparently believe that PCGS must be right and ICG must be wrong. When a coin is cracked out of a PCGS slab and resubmitted to PCGS and comes back with a different grade, was PCGS wrong the first time or the second time?

    At this point I defer to you. Sorry I do expect more from pcgs If this is wrong I have no problem holding my tongue and waiting maybe to learn more. 🤓

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • AercusAercus Posts: 381 ✭✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @lkeigwin said:
    My ICG crosses:

    AU 50 --> AU50
    AU55 --> AU55
    AU58 --> AU55
    MS62 --> MS63
    MS 62 --> AU58
    MS62 --> DNC (cleaning)

    No shame. ICG does a decent job.
    Lance.

    Just wondering how 50 percent is a decent job. Not in any company I’ve worked for and none I’ve heard of. 🤓
    Does anyone think pcgs would be happy with 50 percent?🙀

    Attribute wise, yeah 50%. However, variable specifications are usually superior to attribute ones, in my experience. Variable wise, they are "off" by an average of 6/10ths of one grade, with a stdev of 1.5. For a subjective discipline, that's not bad! We have to consider that pcgs is not the sole source of truth here, as well.

    Reason I suggested crack out is OP says they hate the holder. If they do, little downside to cracking out. The consensus on the boards, and my own (somewhat limited) experience tells me pcgs are more likely to slab a raw coin than a crossover, simply because they can examine the coin more fully. Therefore, if op wants to maximize the chance of getting a pcgs holder, he should crack.

    However, would like to hear what others think on PCGS' perceived conservative nature on crossovers, as I'm open to revising that opinion.

    Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hate seems unreasonable as well as unnecessary in describing the service/holder.

    Its about the coin... plastic can and often does change. The coin really should not change even though the grade opinion may change over time based on subjectivity. The lessons that should be learned here is that decent coins exist in all types of holders but subjectivity and bias really is a greater roadblock as some some apparently are just either unwilling or unable to see the forest through the trees.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 1946Hamm1946Hamm Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My only IGC to PCGS I cracked the IGC and sent to PCGS raw. Got good results.

    Have a good day, Gary
  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2021 6:10AM

    Ewps

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1946Hamm said:
    My only IGC to PCGS I cracked the IGC and sent to PCGS raw. Got good results.

    I wonder what grade you would have gotten if you didn't crack it out before you submitted it for grading.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ICG grading is usually decent. I've only attempted one crossing... a gold $20. Cracked it out first. First attempt, did not cross (PCGS said it had scratches). Waited a few months and tried again. Second time it graded at the ICG grade. Another experience grading a raw gold with pcgs was similar. First attempt was environmental damage. Second attempt was cleaned. Third attempt was straight grade.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2021 4:05AM

    @jwitten said:
    ICG grading is usually decent. I've only attempted one crossing... a gold $20. Cracked it out first. First attempt, did not cross (PCGS said it had scratches). Waited a few months and tried again. Second time it graded at the ICG grade. Another experience grading a raw gold with pcgs was similar. First attempt was environmental damage. Second attempt was cleaned. Third attempt was straight grade.

    They had a meeting and decided that they were tired of seeing the same coin over & over.

    "Lets get this one out and give him a grade, already, he spent enough money".

    [Minutes from that day's meeting.]

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    ICG grading is usually decent. I've only attempted one crossing... a gold $20. Cracked it out first. First attempt, did not cross (PCGS said it had scratches). Waited a few months and tried again. Second time it graded at the ICG grade. Another experience grading a raw gold with pcgs was similar. First attempt was environmental damage. Second attempt was cleaned. Third attempt was straight grade.

    Wow! :o

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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