Love the coin but hate the holder
Jmis
Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
I picked this dollar up recently. I really like the coin but hate the holder. I’d like to send it to PCGS for a crossover and TV. What should I expect?
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Comments
Looks like it's properly graded. It might even get an XF45 from out host. Nice looking coin. I would have no problem owning that coin in its current slab.
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Plastic is kinda plastic. If you’re going to do this 2 things
1. Figure $50-70 to reslab
2. You might not cross over on the grading.
3. That company is known to be kinda unreliable with grading.
4. Any way good luck
5. Personally I would leave it alone
6. 🤓🙀
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Hard to tell from the photos. The coin looks decent. You could get a lower grade and you will spend around $80 to $100 for grading and shipping and insurance.
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Hard to see the surfaces because of the glare in your pics but I think it’s pretty borderline 35-40 on wear. IMO if you choose cross at any grade comes back 35. If you crack you have a decent chance at a 40.
I personally don’t mind it in that slab.
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Tough to tell from the images (the lighting is "hit-or-miss" leaving shadows) but it might be an old cleaning that has re-toned over many years. I'm looking at the stars in the left side of the obverse field... hairlines that might be on the plastic and darker toning closer to the devices. The reverse seems to have contact marks in the field, but they're consistent for the grade. Depending on what the coin looks like in hand, I think it would straight-grade... IMHO...
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Unless there's cleaning and/or other problems that don't show in the pictures, I'd expect it to cross.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So, kinda hard to tell from the pics but it APPEARS to be a nice wholesome original coin. I wouldn't try to cross, I would crack and submit. Figure 50 bucks for grading. You take the risk that it may not grade, but you apparently don't like the holder, so no big loss there. If it gets into a straight pcgs holder, it will be a lot more liquid should you decide to sell (I can hear the dealer you try to sell it to in current condition: "wellll it's not in a pcgs slab so best I can give you is vf details price").
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Crack and submit raw, is my recommendation. Let the coin speak for itself. Let us know how it goes.... Cheers, RickO
Hate is a strong word. Not as strong as an ICG holder, but strong. Nice specimen.
Personally I would crack it out now! No need to worry about crossing over .Your image is clear enough to see that it is an xf 40 to 45 coin no question.
I personally in 50 plus years of collecting have purchased one coin in a slab by this TPG.
At which it was cracked out and I cant recall if I made it an album coin or had it regraded.
I have no faith in ICG and would perfer a raw coin over one in that slab.
I will say i do think the grade on the slad is in the ball park...but from your images I say it was xf-45.
Depending on the coin I would send it into pcgs or ngc. The reason why you only get what you pay for....a $10 @ coin service is just that...you only get what you pay for.
I have found out the hard way that other TPG's @$10 a coin need to do volume at that price point. I was also very disheartened to learn that vouchers they had included in another promotion were actually worthless! And were not honored on my next batch.
I also was disappointed as I paid for a variety to be on the slab. With the correct attribution and they still refused to attribute the specimen properly.
Peace of mind ,and money well spent is well worth the fee's of either pcgs or ngc charge. IMHO
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
if you aend it in i hope you do get a xf 45
Maybe you bought it because someone loved the coin but thought the holder "lessened" the coin "too much".
In that case, you should love the holder for being hateable to others.
Are those stains or shadows on the obverse? If not shadows, it's a details coin. My instincts say good meat, but clean'ish and AT'ish. In-hand, it could look better or worse.
I cracked out an ICG MS62 1921 Peace $1….is now PCGS MS64.
You should get a 40 on that coin IMHO with our host.
I think it should cross. Nice one!
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Crack it and submit it raw.
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Crack it out! I believe it will straight grade.
It looks accurately graded.
Looks like a legit XF coin to me. BTW, that's my favorite angle ... finding nice coins in 2nd and 3rd tier holders that many folks ignore.
Dave
I wasn't aware PCGS crossed ICG coins.
peacockcoins
I think I will crack it out and submit it raw. Thanks for feedback!
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I am assuming that the lines around stars three and four on the obverse are scratches on the holder or something the camera "invented." If they are on the coin, it will not cross and might not grade.
They look like they are on the holder, but if they are not ...
I am now aware PCGS crosses ICG coins.
peacockcoins
Leave it alone and buy a new coin with the money your spending to change plastic. Somebody mentioned that you might not get a good offer from a buyer. Then walk. There’s zillions of people out there that understand buy the coin not the holder if any potential buyer doesn’t know that someone else will 🤓
Just a thought 🤓
BillJones is pretty dang knowledgeable and it’s not a guarantee
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Contrary to popular opinion, I believe most ICG coins are properly graded.
I have several ICG slabbed gold coins and the grades are all spot on.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My experience with ICG has been that they have mostly correctly graded material. ICG was formerly ANACS and vice-versa. I think their criticism stems from their early days of grading a lot of PR70 stuff for teletrade.
Crack and straight into my dansco 7070 if that was mine
"Buy the coin not the holder". Unfortunately bigotry against the second rung grading services is pervasive. I have found PCGS to be unbiased when sending in coins for crossover. The PCGS holder is one of the very best, but the coin should be the object of buying, just as we have many raw coin collectors still.
If you think it should go into a PCGS 40 holder, do NOT crack it. The extra "cross-over insurance" (sic?) is not meaningful.
Mark the shipping address as "HOLD FOR SHIPPING INMSTRUCTION."
If it crosses and you think it's a 45, you can generate a new submission for a regrade with the new serial number. You've just saved two shipping expenses. You also spent $70 on grading and likely wasted some money even at XF45, but if you want the coin in a PCGS holder, this is the protocol.
The people who say "crack it and submit it"?. What can I say?
I've spent over $100K in grading fees this century alone, I think crossover "insurance" on $500 is $20.
YMMV
I think it depends on the time frame. Originally, they were solid. Currently, they seem solid. They're was a loose time in the middle.
When I first saw the coin i thought possibly cleaned and retoned.
I would not crack and submit. You might get hit with a details surprise.
I don't say it often, but this is a coin I would crossover service.
My ICG crosses:
AU 50 --> AU50
AU55 --> AU55
AU58 --> AU55
MS62 --> MS63
MS 62 --> AU58
MS62 --> DNC (cleaning)
No shame. ICG does a decent job.
Lance.
Just wondering how 50 percent is a decent job. Not in any company I’ve worked for and none I’ve heard of. 🤓
Does anyone think pcgs would be happy with 50 percent?🙀
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So just what is decent? Must all 6 cross at grade or improve? Or at least 4?
We're talking about a a third world grading company versus the industry leader. ICG is getting little respect here.
PCGS agreed with two, two dropped in grade, one bumped and one DNC'd. IMO that is decent. YMMV.
Lance.
You have a different expectation for quality control than I do. 50 ok with you that’s fine. I expect more that’s ok too. 🤓
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If you feel it'll cross or improve crack it. Otherwise hold on that idea. Could go backward. No experience with ICG.
Quality control doesn't really apply when discussing differences between two TPGs' grading standards. Lance's results are about on par with (or better than) what one might expect trying to cross NGC ==> PCGS. No shame, indeed.
I don’t think ICG and NGC is a good comparison that’s ok one thing that sure hasn’t crossed my mind when I’m buying is to compare ICG to NGC or see them as comparable Well with those thoughts I’m happy to agree to disagree. Good night 🤓
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@Jzyskowski1 If ICG and PCGS disagree on a grade opinion, you apparently believe that PCGS must be right and ICG must be wrong. When a coin is cracked out of a PCGS slab and resubmitted to PCGS and comes back with a different grade, was PCGS wrong the first time or the second time?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Generally ICG will reholder a coin with the tab alone, with pics you would have added protection. ICG is charging $12 now on economy. For dealers PCGS economy is under $30, if you send in the coin with a bunch of others you cut your costs which add up; shipping each way, invoice fee, grading fee, etc.. NGC does not crossover any but PCGS certified coins now; no dice on either ICG or Anacs, they crack them and grade them raw.
At this point I defer to you. Sorry I do expect more from pcgs If this is wrong I have no problem holding my tongue and waiting maybe to learn more. 🤓
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Attribute wise, yeah 50%. However, variable specifications are usually superior to attribute ones, in my experience. Variable wise, they are "off" by an average of 6/10ths of one grade, with a stdev of 1.5. For a subjective discipline, that's not bad! We have to consider that pcgs is not the sole source of truth here, as well.
Reason I suggested crack out is OP says they hate the holder. If they do, little downside to cracking out. The consensus on the boards, and my own (somewhat limited) experience tells me pcgs are more likely to slab a raw coin than a crossover, simply because they can examine the coin more fully. Therefore, if op wants to maximize the chance of getting a pcgs holder, he should crack.
However, would like to hear what others think on PCGS' perceived conservative nature on crossovers, as I'm open to revising that opinion.
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Hate seems unreasonable as well as unnecessary in describing the service/holder.
Its about the coin... plastic can and often does change. The coin really should not change even though the grade opinion may change over time based on subjectivity. The lessons that should be learned here is that decent coins exist in all types of holders but subjectivity and bias really is a greater roadblock as some some apparently are just either unwilling or unable to see the forest through the trees.
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My only IGC to PCGS I cracked the IGC and sent to PCGS raw. Got good results.
Ewps
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I wonder what grade you would have gotten if you didn't crack it out before you submitted it for grading.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
ICG grading is usually decent. I've only attempted one crossing... a gold $20. Cracked it out first. First attempt, did not cross (PCGS said it had scratches). Waited a few months and tried again. Second time it graded at the ICG grade. Another experience grading a raw gold with pcgs was similar. First attempt was environmental damage. Second attempt was cleaned. Third attempt was straight grade.
They had a meeting and decided that they were tired of seeing the same coin over & over.
"Lets get this one out and give him a grade, already, he spent enough money".
[Minutes from that day's meeting.]
BHNC #203
Wow!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire