Opinions on this Saint?
asheland
Posts: 23,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
asheland
Posts: 23,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
asheland
Posts: 23,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
It's hard to not like a gem Saint. That said, there are a few larger noticeable marks, one in the sun's rays and a few to the left of Liberty's leg. If those are as noticeable in hand as they are on the coin, they may be a bit on the distracting side overall. If they're tiny tics in real life, they may not be an issue.
I like it. It might be a little better than the one I have in the same grade. That can happen with “Old Green Label” coins.
I like it. The dings on the knee and one in the ray aren’t major distractions in my opinion when simply viewing the coin without magnification. The fields and upper portion of Lady Liberty are very nice. I’m no expert on Saints but the strike looks sharp.
I like it. A few hits and frost breaks, maybe not a 65+, but good.
I've seen a lot rattier-looking Saints than that in 65 holders.
I assume you meant "It's hard to not like a gem Saint."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It’s a really nice coin but I’m struggling to pull the trigger so I’m thinking I probably should pass. A friend has it and offered it to me.
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It looks properly graded for the assigned grade. Being the first year of issue is a nice added bonus.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Personally speaking, if the price were reasonable, I'd be pulling the trigger. If the price were closer to moon money, I'd wait.
If your hesitating, it usually means pass as you won’t love it in the future and will compare it to other coins you see in the future. That said, I like the coin but don’t love it. I noticed the mark in the ray above the 9, but missed the one on the knee at first. If the price is at the low end of ms65 pricing, I would likely consider it as I also like the look of the ogh. If it was toward the higher end of ms65 pricing or if a premium was being sought because of the holder, it would be an easy pass for me.
It’s beautiful, nice lustrous surface 👍
He may be hesitating because it's an expensive coin and he may have to really stretch to buy it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Nice strike.
Looks pretty darn solid for the grade. Very nice example.
Dave
@Asheland I took the Liberty to enlarge your image & sharpen it a bit to better assess your subject coin… Hope this helps…
IMO Appears nice at first glance. You want to ensure it’s at least a solid-for-the-grade 65 since there’s a significant price escalation from MS-64 to MS-65…
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Very nice, but if it was meant to be you would have already bought it. At the right price, get it, but there will be others unlike the Dahlonega Dollar you just scored on.
Who could like a gem Saint when you could LOVE a gem Saint?
I think the marks on the knees are a little too much for me to really love this one.
I would like to get a 1907 in 65 OGH / CAC to replace my 1911. I don't have a no-motto Saint. I dont know if this one would sticker.
I know there are a million other Saints in 65 out there but just for a point of comparison, here is my 1911:
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I'm not feelin it
.
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I appreciate the feedback from everybody. 👍
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It’s nice, but the marks on the knees which are in a straight line with the marks in the rays detract from the appearance just enough to pass if you’re already hesitating for other reasons.
Mr_Spud
I would pass unless it’s favorably priced. Too many hits on the knees.
I wonder if it's been tried for a CAC sticker and this is the reason it didn't get one.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Pass...1907 is the worst year.
About half are over graded & the other half are just ugly.
The only reason I have one is because I need it for my set.
Most of the no motto 1908 are the same.
My Saint Set
I would pass on that one....For me, the dings on the legs and rays of the obverse and rays and rim of the reverse, make it an easy pass. Cheers, RickO
Like it.
I love Saints. This has a good strike for a low relief no motto. But I doubt it will get a green bean.
IMO the 1907's I've seen are more attractive than the 1908 NM.
Man I have seen some nice saint not pass mustard at CAC. One of the series I don't really mind no sticker but take note when there is one
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Assuming the price quote is not out of alignment with general market conditions, offer to pay him $200 more with a sticker. That should be a great deal for both of you. He's a friend? Pay him with a written promise he'll do a return on that basis. Have him send it to you and you send it in. Easy peasy.
But why? It's not just because there's no bean already.
I'm flat-out confused by the picture because it suggests, with its color shift over the knee and breast, what I usually see on 07's as manifestations of the strike deficits in the No Motto design. And then there are glimmers of frost breaks in the left obverse field. It's well-established that CAC is cheap down-side insurance (sooner rather than later) even if you take a never-sell kind of approach (a la The Big Dipper-AKA @ricko) and don't consider profit as a short-term consideration.
I would argue your pseudo-binary about 07's because it produces a rationally absurd null set. Perhaps
But it's not germane.
Nor is my noting the 7000+ Wells Fargo 08 NM's, 'cause in fairness their predecessors have been considered little more than "fancy bullion" AKA "low-end for the entire series" since the days of the teletype networks.
Nor is my corrective observation that:
A quick look at the HA Archives will show loads of beautiful 07 NM's. When they come nice they are usually atypically pretty not just for the humdrum type but for the entire series.
Hopefully both responses offer some food for thought.
Agree. I've also seen some nice ones that didn't pass muster at CAC.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Type 2 Original obverse (all 1907 LR coins)
Type 2 Barber obverse
If you want a no motto coin in your collection, I'd go with the Type 2 Barber obverse.
I find it very odd that this major variety is not recognized by any of the TPGs. at this time.
There are huge differences between the above two coins & they go for the same amount of money.
My opinion is the Type 2 original is ugly.
Burdett has the survival of the different types as follows for the Philadelphia mint.
1908 Original (short rays) 150,400
1908 Barber (long rays) 69,000
Once the TPGs do start to recognize the difference, I believe the price will jump drastically on the Barber coins because they are much harder to find.
I'd recommend those for that reason even if you don't care about fat thighs, fuzzy stars & a bird beak nose.
My Saint Set
********************************************** deleted as misleading
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . deleted as a decent example of an irrelevant point in a specious comparison.
My stars - I eliminated the image of the 1908NM that you misleadingly or sloppily used as your exemplar of a NM saint. Whatever you might represent, it's not a glowing high-end 1907.
I know this seems personal, because it is. I have a sense that you've done a lot of reading but not much looking. Your observations do not match up with those of many seasoned observers. There are many others, including a few more here, whose credentials include having had a few hundred thousand Saints of various date in-hand. Your "conclusions" do not match theirs.
Bold item - Speaking as an old fart who used to be a young punk - Spoken like a YN at a Summer Seminar lunch table.
It's the highest graded one on coin facts (MS68)
Here it is with a cert number....
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/07710820
Have you been drinking tonight?
My Saint Set
Have you been thinking tonight?
The best looking MS68 1908 NM doesn't look as good as the best-looking 1907 MS66. Being older than dirt, my image-manipulating abilities are nil, but your dishonesty in continuing to refuse to picture an '07 compounds my "disappointment".
I'll play
Here is coin facts top 1907 for comparison & I'll even spot you two grades (MS68 -vs-MS68)
They look pretty close to me but that wasn't my original argument.
I said the original type 2 looks terrible compared to the type 2 redesign done by Barber.
AND...
All NM coins tend to be over graded. (1907 AND 1908)
I'd run a CAC percentage on both but I can't bring myself to care what JA thinks. Maybe somebody else can do it.
My Saint Set
I'm sorry for anything I might have said previously based on a previous image. This is an overly-marked up grading mistake that would not satisfy many as a 64+. It is not nice. It is has decent frost for the date, no more. The reverse image is FUBAR.
"Pretty close"? As I said, "hopeless"
see 2nd quote below,
And grandiosely unteachable.
The original type 2 design is, of course, totally irrelevant to @asheland's topic.
He asked about '07 Saints and you have assiduously avoided them. This ain't politics. Being color-blind is criminal.
I won't waste any more time deconstructing your expertise. It's like what Gertrude Stein said about Oakland
It's like what Gertrude Stein said about Oakland.
.
Who'm I calling stupid? I could have been watching free porn on the Internet for the last hour
The 1907 IS a type 2
I keyed onto to Pedzola's post where he said
My advice was to consider a Type2 NM Barber. I believe they will increase in value because they are scarce.
I also think they look much nicer and I told him why.
Also, I said that all the NM saints tend to be over graded & I believe that is correct.
All good advice that you somehow took offense to.
Still waiting for the reason why that I can understand.
A 1907 is not a Type2 Barber.
If that was your point, I made it in less than 10 words.
My Saint Set
You could keep an open eye for another one as well, you don't have to jump on the first one. Nice coin though 👌
I admit I was not aware there was a short and long rays (type 1/2) of the no motto low relief.
To my eye as I've been watching thousands of Saints pass me by in the hunt for the right one, I've tended to like the look of 1907s better, generally. But that was not based on anything specific. Maybe people just take better pictures of their 1907s.
I'm not 100% clear on what RFA and Colonel are arguing about. You guys have both helped me out a lot, I don't want to get in the middle of it.
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I think it is accurately graded. I do not think it will sticker with the marks on the knee, sun, and rays. Is that what you’re asking?
It took me a couple years to find my 1st MS65 1907 after obsessively looking for it for that amount of time.
I only had it for about a year when a better one popped up. (also MS65)
It was in an old holder so I sent it in for regrade and it got a +
It has a couple hits on the stick & one in the field but is the result of looking at many hundreds of them.
This is a Hansen MS67 for comparison....
I don't think I did too badly.
Anyway, my point is that the 1907 is one of the most difficult coins to find in good condition out of all of the "doable" 18 out of 23 saints. (the 1920 is another real tuff one)
I feel quite qualified to have an opinion on it after all that work.
There is a half way coin that has the nicer type3 (long ray) front and a type2 (NM / blind eagle) reverse.
It isn't recognized by any TPG but we generally call it the Type2-Barber NM (only available in 1908)
Or just the Barber-NM if you are talking to other obsessive saint collectors.
My Saint Set
Love em no matter what the grade.
Since you have some apprehensions on the looks, do not buy it but wait for one that tickles your spine.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...