First Brett Charville and now Joe Orlando
Justacommeman
Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Joe Orlando President & CEO, Collectors Universe is "leaving"
Effective immediately, Collectors Universe Executive Chairman and fellow collector Nat Turner will be stepping into the CEO role. Since our company was purchased several months ago, Nat has been extremely involved in decision making, especially as it relates to building our infrastructure. This will enable the company to scale and bring Collectors Universe closer to its ultimate vision. For years, Nat has been a consumer and supporter of PSA-certified products, so he is very familiar with our brands and the services we offer.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
3
Comments
The inflection of the letter did not make it sound like it was a personal decision.
Congratulation to Nat Turner and wishes of success in your guiding Collectors Universe in the future.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
The fall out of a buy out. Bringing their own people in
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It almost certainly wasn’t but these things tend to be contractually bound during sales. Probably a 90 day or similar clause. Lots of changes coming to both TPGs. I have no real dog in the fight, as they say, but I hope the coin aspect of both companies doesn’t get short changed or “tinkered” excessively.
Right now, I would like to see both places trying to instill reassuring words to those who buy/resell their services/products: i.e. people like us on the forum.
Can't post the letter but it's on psacard.com.
Best wishes to Joe as he steps away. At some point, enough money is enough, and time with family and loved ones is far, far more valuable. I'd also imagine he can enjoy cards a bit more without the stress of running a major TPG.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Management changes occur in all large companies. And yes, frequently at times of ownership change. There will be operational changes too, but I would think they acquired the company because it is profitable, and would not want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Cheers, RickO
Say it isn't so Joe! The baseball card kid!!!! 👍
Bringing yourself in with the case of Turner. Excited to see what he brings in technology, innovation and of course dramatically improved turnaround times.
Latin American Collection
I received the letter this via email;
Thank You
Without a doubt, this message was the most difficult to write in my nearly 22 years at the company. The title, "Thank You," is about as vague as a title can get, but I wanted to keep it simple for those who chose to read it. After more than two decades at Collectors Universe, with most of that time dedicated to PSA in one form or another, I have decided to move on from something that has become such a huge part of my life. It was time for a change. In addition to spending more time with my family, I am looking forward to staying active in the hobby, my personal passion.
Long before I came to work for the company in 1999, I became a customer – one of PSA’s first – shortly after learning about the service in the early 1990s. Even though I wasn’t here at the very beginning, nor did I invent the concept, I feel like I have been with the company from the start when it wasn’t en vogue. Third party authentication and grading wasn’t perfect then, and it isn’t now, but it has been a critical component to our hobby’s growth. It will continue to be as the market moves forward, along with all the other things PSA offers, from essential content to collection management tools.
I came to PSA because I believed in the concept and what it could do for the industry, but I stayed in large part because of the people ... the people I worked with on a daily basis and those whom I worked for – our customers. The relationships are the reason. I have made lifelong friendships along the way, those I will always cherish. This includes so many current, and former, coworkers. It also includes countless hobbyists and dealers, those who continue to bleed PSA’s colors and those who have sadly passed on.
While there are those who drift in and out of our hobby, so many of you have been incredibly loyal to the brand and personally supportive during my entire career. I could never thank you enough. In many respects, I have been spoiled with a dream job since finishing school. I want everyone to know that I never forgot that. I was given an opportunity to work in an industry I love and for a company I believed in. I fully understood how rare that was and appreciated it every second of the way.
It doesn’t mean every experience was pleasant. Sometimes, I was turned into a human piñata at The National or became the target of submitter frustration by default being on the front lines. It was, however, all part of the gig. Being the referee, umpire or judge isn’t always an envious position to be in. Furthermore, playing the role of messenger can be challenging when the message isn’t always pretty, but the job was so rewarding, in every way imaginable.
I loved helping people, developing new services, providing structure to the market, building the Set Registry, writing, educating, researching, innovating, constantly learning and being immersed in the endeavor I would choose aside from the paycheck. It doesn’t feel like work if you have a real passion for what you do. That passion is what keeps you motivated each day. It could be a grind at times like any other job, but I ended up loving the grind.
In the early days, I can remember going to countless conventions. From Redding, PA, to Hollywood Park, CA, there was a time when I walked table-to-table, aisle-to-aisle, in an attempt to convince others how our services could help their business or improve their collecting experience. Some of you were at these shows too. The circuit could be grueling as you well know, but I enjoyed engaging with fellow hobbyists because we spoke the same language, shared similar experiences and could relate to one another ... even when we disagreed.
Effective immediately, Collectors Universe Executive Chairman and fellow collector Nat Turner will be stepping into the CEO role. Since our company was purchased several months ago, Nat has been extremely involved in decision making, especially as it relates to building our infrastructure. This will enable the company to scale and bring Collectors Universe closer to its ultimate vision. For years, Nat has been a consumer and supporter of PSA-certified products, so he is very familiar with our brands and the services we offer.
I am a collector, through and through. It’s how I’m wired and that’s not going to change. I can’t wait to see what the next two or three decades has in store for all of us. The hobby is continually expanding, maturing and improving. It’s a great time to be a collector, and more people that share our "gene" are being introduced to our way of life each day.
No matter what I decide to do from this point forward with my work life, I will be a collector for life.
Forever grateful,
Joe Orlando
President & CEO, Collectors Universe, Inc.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Private equity buyout, no big surprise. Heretofore most of the corporate presence in numismatics (major auction houses, grading services, publishers) has been limited to people who identified as collectors. Now we are looking at opaque corporate entities running the show. I'm hopeful but I also know how much the personal touch means in this industry.
Good Luck to him on the outside…FWIW, Joe Orlando is what we call people that are willing to wait in 2 hour long lines at Walt Disney World for a single ride
I too received the email from Joe.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Agree. Sad to see both he and Brett go.
Brett is young, energetic and was just getting started....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I am still in shock form home run Hall being shown the door. While not the same it was the day the old PCGS started to change
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
These are the kind of things that can cause an immediate shut down/collapse of coin markets. Change and sell of both the TPG's ((the main two at least) the anchor of the industry. Can be like a switch that just turns off, not saying this is it, but something of this magnitude could do it
Coin TPGs have had their day in the sun. From here out it's a fight for the few dollars left on the floor. Face it, most coins that should be graded have been graded. Only something new that will call for massive re-grading can bring back their good old days.
ZeroHedge makes debut at White House press corps briefing
Counterfeit slabs are getting so good that everything without a TrueView should be re-holdered.
I have zero interest in OGH, even w/ a sticker. If I can't see the a high resolution picture of the coin, it's a hard pass.
I'm assuming re-holdering thousands of coins will keep PCGS busy into the future.
If dealers/collectors want to limit themselves to in person sales, that is their choice.
Anytime I buy a coin in an old holder, it goes straight to PCGS after I get home.
My Saint Set
See what happens when I don't get the grades I want ?
How many OGH holdered gold coins have you had show up counterfeit during your TrueView reholder? Percentage is fine if you don't want to disclose actual numbers. Thanks!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Zero
I'm more concerned about the hobby than my ability to authenticate.
Imagine if a noob bought a fake coin in a "PCGS" holder.
How would they feel about collecting more coins?
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/two-counterfeit-coins-in-counterfeit-pcgs-holders.362922/
My Saint Set
Thanks for the link.
It scares the crap out of me but feel from the link that I have gained more insight into counterfeit holders.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Well ......you just get 😡
You may have a point about some of the laser printed OGHs.
In some ways, my old rattlers are getting more secure. Nobody in this day and age has a dot matrix printer to fake a rattler label.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=48398
Evidently, they started faking those holders in about 1989
I searched for "dot matrix printer" on e-bay and 868 results popped up.
125 of those were for sale in China.
My Saint Set
The eventual end of the financial asset mania (whenever it occurs) is a more predictable catalyst for a collapse in the price level.
A noticeably lower price level would solve most of the counterfeit problem.
I've never seen a quality counterfeit old holder. Keep regrading/cracking them. You're only making mine more valuable.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I am raising prices on my coins 😄
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Collectors Universe is about much more than coins. Sports cards seem to be the new focus. This is about money and the money is now in sports cards. Will the sports card boom last? I think it is very doubtful as it strikes me as a get rich quick speculative boom and those always seem to end up on the trash heap of history.
My opinion too. Too many extremely common cards selling for hugely inflated prices where isn't really that interesting, unless the owner isn't losing a lot of money on it.
Might have to do with the buy out or the 10 month backlog of trading cards. Customers are seeking other venues to have their cards graded. In my industry as in many others. Easy to gain new business, harder to get business that left.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Just like in the late 1980s and early 1990s for sports cards. I think I’ve read a similar boom for comic book authentication. If it wasn’t so expensive, I’d engage in some speculation with stuff I’ve had 40 years that I kept pristine.
As a contractor we represent a large manufacturing company whose first buyout was supposed to be a move towards service support. When that didn't work 10 years later our second buyout looked good at first only to see 'service' become a lost art with machines built to last only about the 12 to 18 month warranty. I don't see this PCGS buyout to be any good for you and I. Guess we'll see. Looks like same thing going on ATS.
Sports cards growth has been outpacing coins for ages and that trend will only continue, even as prices settle down a good bit.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I see a big difference between the "classic" and modern" segments, the primary distinction being that whatever the cut-off is for "modern" (1980's sounds right for at least baseball cards), it's going to be common or really common.
I'd never pay the price it's ever taken to buy a T-206 Honus Wagner card but I "get" why others do it. I can understand why someone would want a Michael Jordan rookie card but not paying high six figures for a gem-10 when I read there are at least 316.
Remember when General Mills owned Bowers and Merena? How did that end up?
Hate to break it to you, but both services are busier than ever. Have you done a submission lately?
modern bulk, cheap fees. Ask PCGS how many monster boxes are stacked at their facility. Do you really believe there is an endless supply of pre-modern coins backing up the graders? Most all of those have already been graded, at least once.
ZeroHedge makes debut at White House press corps briefing
The modern stuff is quick and easy to grade and goes through very fast. And causes PCGS less risk than pre-modern. They are probably more profitable.
As for older coins, the rest of world submissions are just getting started.
Private Equity NEVER purchases a business to keep it going the same. Their goal is to "fix it up" and sell it for a 20%, 40%, or higher return. They are able to make investments that you can't do in a quarter over quarter Wall Street view. But they expect to make their money back in an eventual IPO.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Do you really believe there is an endless supply of pre-modern coins backing up the graders? Most all of those have already been graded, at least once.
Not according to Coin Facts estimates and the current TPG population data. Some of the estimates are undoubtedly overstated but others are understated.
A few examples include the 1802 half dime where 35 are purportedly known but only 15 (excluding PCGS details coins which aren't in their data) are in a holder, excluding any potential duplicates such as the three NGC AU-50. Most of the estimates for the Capped Bust half series are almost certainly understated and the current counts are far lower.
There is a potential meaningful revenue opportunity out there, but I agree with your sentiment that it won't be fully realized in a timeframe which drove the decision to pay over $800MM for the acquisition.
So there have been trends of conglomeration and specialization at the corporate level. In the 1960s you had aggregators like National General buying up disparate businesses. Lately Wall Street seems to like business that are simpler to measure, so you've had companies like Motorola break themselves up into pieces w/specific niches.
As for General Mills, that didn't last long, and Bowers ended up buying his company back (probably at a lesser price for which he sold it).
They know the risk of sports card speculation. A good chunk of the population has a collecting instinct and they want to capitalize . Simple as that.
The historically significant sports memorabilia will always be valuable.
As far as coins, there is still great potential for an influx of new collectors. I expect more interest as the Mint straightens out their marketing dept. and develops more Morgan/Peace tribute coin and bullion programs that appeal to collector/investors.
Whatever they do ( in the pursuit of profit) it needs to be a win-win situation for submitters as well. Otherwise, why play???
Nothing lasts forever and everyone is replaceable.