@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
This reminded me of something I read yesterday.
Until about 90 or 100 years ago it was legal to ship babies through the mail.
Mind you, it was only short distances such as across town or a town over, but the local carriers and the PO employees were regarded highly enough by their customers that some parents entrusted their little children to them.
I also read an article not too long ago about a postal route somewhere in the very rural southwest where the carrier spent about 6 hours round trip to reach a dozen or so remote customers who lived in a very rugged terrain. The postal carrier routinely brings groceries, takes cash back to buy money orders at the PO and then mails bills for customers, etc.
@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
This reminded me of something I read yesterday.
Until about 90 or 100 years ago it was legal to ship babies through the mail.
Mind you, it was only short distances such as across town or a town over, but the local carriers and the PO employees were regarded highly enough by their customers that some parents entrusted their little chindren to them.
I also read an article not too long ago about a postal route somewhere in the very rural southwest where the carrier spent about 6 hours round trip to reach a dozen or so remote customers who lived in a very rugged terrain. The postal carrier routinely brings groceries, takes cash back to buy money orders at the PO and then mails bills for customers, etc.
@JBK said:
This reminded me of something I read yesterday.
Until about 90 or 100 years ago it was legal to ship babies through the mail.
Mind you, it was only short distances such as across town or a town over, but the local carriers and the PO employees were regarded highly enough by their customers that some parents entrusted their little children to them.
I also read an article not too long ago about a postal route somewhere in the very rural southwest where the carrier spent about 6 hours round trip to reach a dozen or so remote customers who lived in a very rugged terrain. The postal carrier routinely brings groceries, takes cash back to buy money orders at the PO and then mails bills for customers, etc.
He must get crazy tips.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
And having worked there for 33 years I can tell you that's absolutely not the case. Theft at the Post Office is extremely rare. Anyone handling the mail is watched closely.
@BryceM said:
Hmmmmm. To me, the thread remains quite relevant. I imagine the usefulness of the forum, as far as our hosts are concerned, is immediate feedback from the dealers and collectors who identify most with the brand. Closing the thread doesn't do much other than just "sweep it under the rug." Ideally, they'll take care of the OP and he'll naturally come back here and report how they fixed it. Or, if necessary, it leaves our host a place to tell their side of the story.
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
And having worked there for 33 years I can tell you that's absolutely not the case. Theft at the Post Office is extremely rare. Anyone handling the mail is watched closely.
I worked there for 31 years and agree with you 100%.
There are a few bad eggs in every business.....there is about 0.5% to 1% in every business......so 1 person per 100. Its sad but they are there. There are varying degrees of bad.....
@Herb_T said:
There are a few bad eggs in every business.....there is about 0.5% to 1% in every business......so 1 person per 100. Its sad but they are there. There are varying degrees of bad.....
There are not 1% thieves in the post office, if that's what you are suggesting.
Sorry to hear the issue hasn’t been resolved at this point. As mentioned you don’t mistake a gold coin for a palladium or platinum coin. Maybe you get a date or denomination wrong but not the metal. So if something other than a gold coin was received in as the sender claims and the initial paper verified why hasn’t it been found? At a minimum I would expect a confirmation to the customer that we did get the coin but can’t find it. That doesn’t get him his coin back but it at least it’s an indicate there should be confidence in their receiving process and something further down the line went haywire. Then it’s step by step down the process to the point where the gold coin is referred in the subsequent paperwork.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Herb_T said:
There are a few bad eggs in every business.....there is about 0.5% to 1% in every business......so 1 person per 100. Its sad but they are there. There are varying degrees of bad.....
There are not 1% thieves in the post office, if that's what you are suggesting.
Hope for the best. I hope that they find your coin.
Plan for the worst. If you have not already, it might make sense to initiate a loss claim. I know that you would like your coin back, but if they cannot find it, the compensation will allow you to replace it.
" 4.PCGS will exercise reasonable care in handling coins submitted for grading, regrading or reholdering. However, if PCGS determines that the Customer’s coin was lost or damaged while in PCGS possession, Customer will be compensated based upon the fair market value of the coin as determined by PCGS standard procedures which may include filing a claim with our insurance carrier. The declared value you stated on the front of this form is for estimating the insurance coverage only, and the fair market value of the coin may be less than your declared value. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE TOTAL LIABILITY EXCEED THE DECLARED VALUE OF THE COIN. PCGS accepts no liability for coins with soldered and/or glued components as these types of items can be damaged even when handled properly. PCGS will not accept liability for items lost while not in the custody or control of PCGS." PCGS Grading Terms & Conditions (back of submission form)
"5. Lost, Stolen or Damaged Coins. If PCGS determines in its sole discretion that any coin submitted by Customer to PCGS for grading was lost, stolen or damaged while in the possession or control of PCGS, PCGS will compensate Customer in accordance with the terms of this Section 5. [...] With respect to a lost or stolen coin which has not been graded previously by PCGS, PCGS will pay Customer the value of the coin as determined in good faith by PCGS. [...] For purposes of this Section 5, the market value of a coin shall be determined in good faith by PCGS based, where appropriate, on published or generally disseminated dealer price quotations or other information which reflects prevailing market prices. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE MARKET VALUE OF A COIN DETERMINED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION 5 EXCEED THE INSURED VALUE OF SUCH COIN AS REFLECTED ON THE SUBMISSION FORM. The remedies set forth in this Section 6 shall be the sole and exclusive remedies for a lost, stolen or damaged coin, and PCGS SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER TO CUSTOMER OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR INDIRECT DAMAGES, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SPECIAL DAMAGES, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION DAMAGE, COSTS OF DELAY OR LOST PROFITS." PCGS Collectors Club Agreement (incorporated by reference in section #2 of the "PCGS Grading Terms & Conditions")
@Martin said:
I still want to think They Are working
On straightening this out. It might be they can’t figure it out and are hoping the right coin is located
Or the submitter is mistaken
Martin
I realize that we are only getting one side of the story here. That said ...
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
immediate detection check
document it check
Thanks for your response.
Please forgive me, but I am not sure I fully understand.
Are you saying that when PCGS detects a significant error during the receiving process that they document it internally, but do not notify the customer?
Edited to add:
I just found this on the PCGS website. Based on this, it appears that they do have a process for notifying customers about problematic submissions (i.e., the "receive hold").
"Why is the status of my order stating "receive hold?" (via my online account)
Orders are placed on a "receive hold" if there is a discrepancy between the information listed on the submission form, the coins received, and current PCGS policies. PCGS will send an e-mail with an explanation of the discrepancy and request your authorization to correct. The submission will remain on hold until an e-mail reply with authorization is received. Once proper authorization is obtained and the submission is corrected, your order will continue forward. If you notice the hold prior to receiving an e-mail, please contact PCGS Customer Service for further details. Note: Estimated turnaround times are delayed for orders with missing and/or incorrect information. Once the order is corrected in the PCGS system, the estimated turnaround time will begin."
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq
@lkenefic said:
wow... sorry you're still having these issues! Please let us know how things get resolved...
To follow up on earlier comments: Are submissions videoed upon receipt? That should clear up "the submission" portion of the question...
"How do I know the coin I send to PCGS is the same coin I will receive when returned?
The only coins at the PCGS facility are coins submitted by our clients. Great care is taken to maintain the integrity of each order. From the moment each package is received by PCGS it follows a very strict and controlled tracking process. The opening of each package is recorded with full audio and video. As the receiver opens the package all the contents are verbally described and recorded. As each coin is removed from the package a bar coded label is prepared which is immediately attached to the flip containing the coin. Another bar coded label is affixed to the box containing all the coins from that submission.
As the order proceeds through the various stages of grading, all the coins in the submission are continuously kept together in the bar coded box. Each individual coin is always kept in its bar coded flip unless actually being graded or eventually placed in a PCGS plastic holder. Throughout the entire time a coin is at PCGS our computer system tracks it and can tell us exactly where it is. Under no circumstances are coins from separate orders ever combined or co-mingled. Each order is kept intact in its own box as it moves along through the various processes within PCGS."
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq
I think I’d ask if anyone has reviewed the video. And then I’d ask if I could view it. Should be fairly simple to see what coins were in that submission
I hope your coin is found soon. It would be flustering I’m sure. It is not However the end the world.
If I was PCGS I would be more concerned than if I we the submitter. Some one should have contacted you and given you an explanation of what they know. And they should know something or they don’t actually video every package opening. Or they don’t actually care
@Martin said:
I think I’d ask if anyone has reviewed the video. And then I’d ask if I could view it. Should be fairly simple to see what coins were in that submission
[...]
This.
If, for whatever reason, the AV record was unavailable, I would then focus on the "receive hold" process. Per their published policy, PCGS is supposed to notify the customer of any "discrepancy" between the coins received and the submission form details. In my mind, a physical gold coin described as a platinum coin would qualify for a "hold".
Either PCGS can produce documentation of a "receive hold", including your e-signed authorization to correct, or they cannot. If this record can be produced, case closed in their favor. Conversely, if this record cannot be produced, I would argue that PCGS assented to your version of the submission form by failing to immediately place your order on a "receive hold".
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
immediate detection check
document it check
Thanks for your response.
Please forgive me, but I am not sure I fully understand.
I'm just going through the checklist of what you suggested.
they did immediately detect it in a way - they changed hi order, right?
they documented it in one way -- they changed his order to a different coin number
@MsMorrisine said:
I'm just going through the checklist of what you suggested.
they did immediately detect it in a way - they changed hi order, right?
they documented it in one way -- they changed his order to a different coin number
Got it. You make valid points.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me. I appreciate it.
It’s been a while since there is any update from either side. The unfortunate part is it leads to more speculation on what could have happened. Hopefully we will get some kind of resolution soon.
Given the detailed explanation of the process and the AV recordings made when each package is opened, it is difficult to understand how this situation couldn't have been settled definitively with a quick review of the AV record, and the submitter apprised of the results.
Am I the only one that's surprised that our host hasn't closed this thread yet?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
OMG!!! Thanks for the link - sometimes it takes a while to feel people out...but I think this ^^^^^^ solidifies things for me...
This will be my last post here (I hope).
I'm gonna steal a gif that was in the above thread...as it might fit here too!
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
immediate detection check
document it check
Thanks for your response.
Please forgive me, but I am not sure I fully understand.
I'm just going through the checklist of what you suggested.
they did immediately detect it in a way - they changed hi order, right?
they documented it in one way -- they changed his order to a different coin number
They did not immediately detect it. They received in the coin as a platinum coin. It was subsequently changed to gold.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MsMorrisine said:
While aware of said statements in above said thread…
the value of the two coins are different, they aren’t that far apart.
Pcgs was called shady, but I don’t think so
Some might say shady on the other side, but with the values being similar, I don’t think so
I don't think shady is the right word. The submitter claims he sent a platinum coin. PCGS received it in as a platinum coin. At some point subsequent to the original receiving the description was changed to gold. I don't see anything shady. If there was something shady you would think there would be no record on the part of PCGS that they received a platinum coin. What's disconcerting is 45 days has gone by an no explanation. If they actually did not get the platinum coin why did the initial record of recept reference a platinum coin? I cannot imagine the information is simply transcribed from the paperwork sent by the customer. Some visual confirmation of what is received has to be done at the time the shipment is received. If that is the case what prompted the later change to gold?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Justacommeman said:
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
@Justacommeman said:
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
Absolutely nothing. If you're going to leap to the conclusion that I was was trying to discredit him with his own words then so be it.
I don't think there was anything nefarious done by PCGS. Did they screw up? Perhaps. I just don't have any patience for conspiracy theories or jumping to conclusions.. Maybe that's just me. If so I'm flawed in that regard.
Regardless I hope he is made whole if he is entitled to it.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Am I wrong that the printed list of coins on the submission is what the OP manually entered himself? Not sure how that matters. He either sent a coin different than what he put down on the submission form accidentally (which he claims he's never owned so that's a no) or PCGS made a mistake and will sort it out and correct. I saw the word shady tossed around a few times and that's absurd to me for so many reasons.
@PhilLynott said:
Am I wrong that the printed list of coins on the submission is what the OP manually entered himself? [...]
That is my understanding, as well.
@PhilLynott said:
[...] Not sure how that matters. [...]
It matters because PCGS is supposed to compare the submission form against the incoming coins upon receipt. Per internal policy, if there is a discrepancy, they immediately stop the order and contact the submitter to resolve the issue. When this happens, it is called a "receive hold".
As far as I can tell from the OP's posts, he maintains that his order was never subjected to a "receive hold". Given that it 'passed' the receiving inspection, I believe that it is his position that PCGS assented to his submission form. IOW, PCGS agreed that the coins listed on his submission form 'matched' the coins he submitted, because they failed to notify him of a discrepancy upon receipt.
That is how it happened for me. I had sent the v75 ASE direct to the mint unopened box and had preloaded the cart with some cheap stuff so all my info would already be loaded ready to add one and hit check out. I did that and absent Monday sent the whole thing into our host. They immediately put the order on stop hold and called to ask if I wanted the quarters graded as well as the v75 which was all I had on the submission form.
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@Justacommeman said:
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
Absolutely nothing. If you're going to leap to the conclusion that I was was trying to discredit him with his own words then so be it.
I don't think there was anything nefarious done by PCGS. Did they screw up? Perhaps. I just don't have any patience for conspiracy theories or jumping to conclusions.. Maybe that's just me. If so I'm flawed in that regard.
Regardless I hope he is made whole if he is entitled to it.
m
I have full respect for you as a collector but there is no other reason for you to post what you posted unless you were trying to cast aspersions. By posting his truths or "conspiracy theories" to you.. you are attempting to discredit his statement that he sent in coin A...
Why? Because you don't believe a large company makes mistakes?
Or because he does not think like you that is a reason to question his integrity?
Either way man it's gross.
I have dealt with @Azurescens he has always been an upright man. For whatever that means.
At some point the delay in not getting a definitive answer becomes more of an issue than the initial problem.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Justacommeman said:
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
Absolutely nothing. If you're going to leap to the conclusion that I was was trying to discredit him with his own words then so be it.
I don't think there was anything nefarious done by PCGS. Did they screw up? Perhaps. I just don't have any patience for conspiracy theories or jumping to conclusions.. Maybe that's just me. If so I'm flawed in that regard.
Regardless I hope he is made whole if he is entitled to it.
m
I have full respect for you as a collector but there is no other reason for you to post what you posted unless you were trying to cast aspersions. By posting his truths or "conspiracy theories" to you.. you are attempting to discredit his statement that he sent in coin A...
Why? Because you don't believe a large company makes mistakes?
Or because he does not think like you that is a reason to question his integrity?
Either way man it's gross.
I have dealt with @Azurescens he has always been an upright man. For whatever that means.
J
Thanks. I've been very clear that I don't doubt there was an error made along the way. I hope is made whole. The conspiracy angle from the PM thread was only illustrated to slow the roll of his "far beyond shady" and "ridiculously shady" comments. Nothing more.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
I don't think there was anything nefarious done by PCGS. Did they screw up? Perhaps. I just don't have any patience for conspiracy theories or jumping to conclusions.. Maybe that's just me. If so I'm flawed in that regard.
Regardless I hope he is made whole if he is entitled to it.
m
I would agree with this statement Mark, but also, why is it taking so long for communication that will resolve this? Should be straightforward as all things in this thread document that the vids etc. are there to do so. Gotta be frustrating and, this thread keeps on going. Needs a resolution. Tomorrow, not Halloween.
Comments
What a mess! If the original submission form has the platinum coin on it, then receiving is the problem. IMO. Peace Roy
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I’m giving them credit for not closing the thread down. I suspect they are still trying to get to the bottom of this. Keep the faith
Martin
Agreed. Glad to see the mods apparently still see it that way as well, but would have been understandable if the thread had been closed. when stealing by PCGS employees had been insinuated, rightly or wrongly.
It's alleged here on virtually a weekly basis that Postal employees are thieves.
This reminded me of something I read yesterday.
Until about 90 or 100 years ago it was legal to ship babies through the mail.
Mind you, it was only short distances such as across town or a town over, but the local carriers and the PO employees were regarded highly enough by their customers that some parents entrusted their little children to them.
I also read an article not too long ago about a postal route somewhere in the very rural southwest where the carrier spent about 6 hours round trip to reach a dozen or so remote customers who lived in a very rugged terrain. The postal carrier routinely brings groceries, takes cash back to buy money orders at the PO and then mails bills for customers, etc.
How did the stork union feel about that?
If you missed your dues date bad things would happen.
He must get crazy tips.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
And having worked there for 33 years I can tell you that's absolutely not the case. Theft at the Post Office is extremely rare. Anyone handling the mail is watched closely.
I worked there for 31 years and agree with you 100%.
Newman!
There are a few bad eggs in every business.....there is about 0.5% to 1% in every business......so 1 person per 100. Its sad but they are there. There are varying degrees of bad.....
There are not 1% thieves in the post office, if that's what you are suggesting.
Sorry to hear the issue hasn’t been resolved at this point. As mentioned you don’t mistake a gold coin for a palladium or platinum coin. Maybe you get a date or denomination wrong but not the metal. So if something other than a gold coin was received in as the sender claims and the initial paper verified why hasn’t it been found? At a minimum I would expect a confirmation to the customer that we did get the coin but can’t find it. That doesn’t get him his coin back but it at least it’s an indicate there should be confidence in their receiving process and something further down the line went haywire. Then it’s step by step down the process to the point where the gold coin is referred in the subsequent paperwork.
wow... sorry you're still having these issues! Please let us know how things get resolved...
To follow up on earlier comments: Are submissions videoed upon receipt? That should clear up "the submission" portion of the question...
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First replace the coin, then analyze the internal issue?
I still want to think They Are working
On straightening this out. It might be they can’t figure it out and are hoping the right coin is located
Or the submitter is mistaken
Martin
I will second this statement.
.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@Azurescens
Hope for the best. I hope that they find your coin.
Plan for the worst. If you have not already, it might make sense to initiate a loss claim. I know that you would like your coin back, but if they cannot find it, the compensation will allow you to replace it.
" 4.PCGS will exercise reasonable care in handling coins submitted for grading, regrading or reholdering. However, if PCGS determines that the Customer’s coin was lost or damaged while in PCGS possession, Customer will be compensated based upon the fair market value of the coin as determined by PCGS standard procedures which may include filing a claim with our insurance carrier. The declared value you stated on the front of this form is for estimating the insurance coverage only, and the fair market value of the coin may be less than your declared value. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE TOTAL LIABILITY EXCEED THE DECLARED VALUE OF THE COIN. PCGS accepts no liability for coins with soldered and/or glued components as these types of items can be damaged even when handled properly. PCGS will not accept liability for items lost while not in the custody or control of PCGS."
PCGS Grading Terms & Conditions (back of submission form)
"5. Lost, Stolen or Damaged Coins. If PCGS determines in its sole discretion that any coin submitted by Customer to PCGS for grading was lost, stolen or damaged while in the possession or control of PCGS, PCGS will compensate Customer in accordance with the terms of this Section 5. [...] With respect to a lost or stolen coin which has not been graded previously by PCGS, PCGS will pay Customer the value of the coin as determined in good faith by PCGS. [...] For purposes of this Section 5, the market value of a coin shall be determined in good faith by PCGS based, where appropriate, on published or generally disseminated dealer price quotations or other information which reflects prevailing market prices. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE MARKET VALUE OF A COIN DETERMINED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION 5 EXCEED THE INSURED VALUE OF SUCH COIN AS REFLECTED ON THE SUBMISSION FORM. The remedies set forth in this Section 6 shall be the sole and exclusive remedies for a lost, stolen or damaged coin, and PCGS SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER TO CUSTOMER OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR INDIRECT DAMAGES, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SPECIAL DAMAGES, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION DAMAGE, COSTS OF DELAY OR LOST PROFITS."
PCGS Collectors Club Agreement (incorporated by reference in section #2 of the "PCGS Grading Terms & Conditions")
I realize that we are only getting one side of the story here. That said ...
If a customer misidentified a coin on their submission form, one would think that PCGS would have immediately detected it, documented it, and notified the submitter.
Look under the desk,,,,,,,,,,,,
immediate detection check
document it check
Thanks for your response.
Please forgive me, but I am not sure I fully understand.
Are you saying that when PCGS detects a significant error during the receiving process that they document it internally, but do not notify the customer?
Edited to add:
I just found this on the PCGS website. Based on this, it appears that they do have a process for notifying customers about problematic submissions (i.e., the "receive hold").
"Why is the status of my order stating "receive hold?" (via my online account)
Orders are placed on a "receive hold" if there is a discrepancy between the information listed on the submission form, the coins received, and current PCGS policies. PCGS will send an e-mail with an explanation of the discrepancy and request your authorization to correct. The submission will remain on hold until an e-mail reply with authorization is received. Once proper authorization is obtained and the submission is corrected, your order will continue forward. If you notice the hold prior to receiving an e-mail, please contact PCGS Customer Service for further details.
Note: Estimated turnaround times are delayed for orders with missing and/or incorrect information. Once the order is corrected in the PCGS system, the estimated turnaround time will begin."
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq
"How do I know the coin I send to PCGS is the same coin I will receive when returned?
The only coins at the PCGS facility are coins submitted by our clients. Great care is taken to maintain the integrity of each order. From the moment each package is received by PCGS it follows a very strict and controlled tracking process. The opening of each package is recorded with full audio and video. As the receiver opens the package all the contents are verbally described and recorded. As each coin is removed from the package a bar coded label is prepared which is immediately attached to the flip containing the coin. Another bar coded label is affixed to the box containing all the coins from that submission.
As the order proceeds through the various stages of grading, all the coins in the submission are continuously kept together in the bar coded box. Each individual coin is always kept in its bar coded flip unless actually being graded or eventually placed in a PCGS plastic holder. Throughout the entire time a coin is at PCGS our computer system tracks it and can tell us exactly where it is. Under no circumstances are coins from separate orders ever combined or co-mingled. Each order is kept intact in its own box as it moves along through the various processes within PCGS."
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq
I think I’d ask if anyone has reviewed the video. And then I’d ask if I could view it. Should be fairly simple to see what coins were in that submission
I hope your coin is found soon. It would be flustering I’m sure. It is not However the end the world.
If I was PCGS I would be more concerned than if I we the submitter. Some one should have contacted you and given you an explanation of what they know. And they should know something or they don’t actually video every package opening. Or they don’t actually care
Martin
This.
If, for whatever reason, the AV record was unavailable, I would then focus on the "receive hold" process. Per their published policy, PCGS is supposed to notify the customer of any "discrepancy" between the coins received and the submission form details. In my mind, a physical gold coin described as a platinum coin would qualify for a "hold".
Either PCGS can produce documentation of a "receive hold", including your e-signed authorization to correct, or they cannot. If this record can be produced, case closed in their favor. Conversely, if this record cannot be produced, I would argue that PCGS assented to your version of the submission form by failing to immediately place your order on a "receive hold".
Good Luck !!!
I'm just going through the checklist of what you suggested.
they did immediately detect it in a way - they changed hi order, right?
they documented it in one way -- they changed his order to a different coin number
Got it. You make valid points.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me. I appreciate it.
It’s been a while since there is any update from either side. The unfortunate part is it leads to more speculation on what could have happened. Hopefully we will get some kind of resolution soon.
Given the detailed explanation of the process and the AV recordings made when each package is opened, it is difficult to understand how this situation couldn't have been settled definitively with a quick review of the AV record, and the submitter apprised of the results.
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Am I the only one that's surprised that our host hasn't closed this thread yet?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think they're confident they'll have a favorable outcome.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
All this maybe true but I'm not buying 100% what the OP is selling at this point. He is one of our resident conspiracy theorists on the PM forum.
I'm just hoping he didn't buy based on that "info".
m
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1055940/banks-and-financial-institutions-worldwide-have-pulled-all-nighters-all-weekend/p1
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
OMG!!! Thanks for the link - sometimes it takes a while to feel people out...but I think this ^^^^^^ solidifies things for me...
This will be my last post here (I hope).
I'm gonna steal a gif that was in the above thread...as it might fit here too!
BST references available on request
Once again I’m shocked that there is creepy conspiracy theories and people posting here. Wasting valuable time and enjoying it wow😈
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
While aware of said statements in above said thread…
the value of the two coins are different, they aren’t that far apart.
Pcgs was called shady, but I don’t think so
Some might say shady on the other side, but with the values being similar, I don’t think so
They did not immediately detect it. They received in the coin as a platinum coin. It was subsequently changed to gold.
I don't think shady is the right word. The submitter claims he sent a platinum coin. PCGS received it in as a platinum coin. At some point subsequent to the original receiving the description was changed to gold. I don't see anything shady. If there was something shady you would think there would be no record on the part of PCGS that they received a platinum coin. What's disconcerting is 45 days has gone by an no explanation. If they actually did not get the platinum coin why did the initial record of recept reference a platinum coin? I cannot imagine the information is simply transcribed from the paperwork sent by the customer. Some visual confirmation of what is received has to be done at the time the shipment is received. If that is the case what prompted the later change to gold?
haha oh brother
What do you get out of trying to discredit him?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Absolutely nothing. If you're going to leap to the conclusion that I was was trying to discredit him with his own words then so be it.
I don't think there was anything nefarious done by PCGS. Did they screw up? Perhaps. I just don't have any patience for conspiracy theories or jumping to conclusions.. Maybe that's just me. If so I'm flawed in that regard.
Regardless I hope he is made whole if he is entitled to it.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Am I wrong that the printed list of coins on the submission is what the OP manually entered himself? Not sure how that matters. He either sent a coin different than what he put down on the submission form accidentally (which he claims he's never owned so that's a no) or PCGS made a mistake and will sort it out and correct. I saw the word shady tossed around a few times and that's absurd to me for so many reasons.
That is my understanding, as well.
It matters because PCGS is supposed to compare the submission form against the incoming coins upon receipt. Per internal policy, if there is a discrepancy, they immediately stop the order and contact the submitter to resolve the issue. When this happens, it is called a "receive hold".
As far as I can tell from the OP's posts, he maintains that his order was never subjected to a "receive hold". Given that it 'passed' the receiving inspection, I believe that it is his position that PCGS assented to his submission form. IOW, PCGS agreed that the coins listed on his submission form 'matched' the coins he submitted, because they failed to notify him of a discrepancy upon receipt.
That is how it happened for me. I had sent the v75 ASE direct to the mint unopened box and had preloaded the cart with some cheap stuff so all my info would already be loaded ready to add one and hit check out. I did that and absent Monday sent the whole thing into our host. They immediately put the order on stop hold and called to ask if I wanted the quarters graded as well as the v75 which was all I had on the submission form.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I have full respect for you as a collector but there is no other reason for you to post what you posted unless you were trying to cast aspersions. By posting his truths or "conspiracy theories" to you.. you are attempting to discredit his statement that he sent in coin A...
Why? Because you don't believe a large company makes mistakes?
Or because he does not think like you that is a reason to question his integrity?
Either way man it's gross.
I have dealt with @Azurescens he has always been an upright man. For whatever that means.
J
If I squint my eyes, in my mind I see a plat sitting side by side a Stella.
peacockcoins
At some point the delay in not getting a definitive answer becomes more of an issue than the initial problem.
Thanks. I've been very clear that I don't doubt there was an error made along the way. I hope is made whole. The conspiracy angle from the PM thread was only illustrated to slow the roll of his "far beyond shady" and "ridiculously shady" comments. Nothing more.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I would agree with this statement Mark, but also, why is it taking so long for communication that will resolve this? Should be straightforward as all things in this thread document that the vids etc. are there to do so. Gotta be frustrating and, this thread keeps on going. Needs a resolution. Tomorrow, not Halloween.
Bad PR when this like this linger for too long.
Best, SH