Is PR58 better than PR60?
FredF
Posts: 525 ✭✭✭
Was browsing auction sites and saw a 19th century gold coin in PR58. Lots of folks have an opinion that, all else being equal, an AU58 is going to have better eye appeal than a MS60 of the same date/denomination. While I understand that all else is never equal, and all coins have to be judged individually, on the balance is a PR58 going to look nicer than a PR60? I'm expecting a PR60 to have problems.
Disclaimer - have never seen either a PR58 or PR60 19th century gold coin in person, so I'm only judging from photos.
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
0
Comments
No. Depends subjectively on a case by case basis
is the 58 a coin that would be a 60 with wear or a 67 with wear?
Sometimes yes and other times, no. The question really needs to be answered on an individual basis. And the same goes for an AU58 vs. MS60, MS61 or even MS62 business strike, too.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A PR coin with circulation wear cannot be graded any higher than PR58. There should be no such coin that is PR 67 with a little bit of wear. PR coins are totally pristine examples that have no wear.......even if they have been circulated (once), which might have happened during the Great Depression when some were spent (once).
A PR58 may very well have better eye appeal, but it still is a 58.
OINK
Generally, I've found that to be true. I have a PF58 3cs that is really an 64 maybe 65 but with a touch of wear on the high points.
And a few MS60s that, well, if they barked I wouldn't be surprised...
ANA 49 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus" because ANA can't count)
No
The 58 is always better than the 60 is also a myth.
For proofs it is a completely different thing. I would rather have a PR60 than a PR58 because the 58 would be circulated. The 60 would be mishandled and/or cleaned.
With proofs, unlike business strikes, it's probably fair to say that 58's and 60's are equally likely to have problems.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I checked several coin value price guides and they all agree that PR60 coins are better than PR58 coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I don’t think anyone is arguing a 67 can have wear. The argument is that a 67 with light wear is immediately a 58, and it may be a very appealing 58 because it is a very clean coin with a light rub. A 60 may not have wear, but it likely has heavy hairlining or other distracting flaws. Of course, a 60 with a light rub may also be a 58. Point being a 58 can have much more appeal than a 60 as long as you’re willing to accept the coin having light wear instead of (possibly) a slew of other issues that knock the grade down to the low 60s.
There’s no such thing as a PR67 with light wear. Circulation will destroy the fields. High point rub with pristine fields is not circulation and will not result in a grade of 58.
The same then can be said for MS60 verse AU58. I think we’re both being sarcastic.
Depends.
In my limited experience, I have purchased 58s rather than 60s or 61s because on the 58s I own, the fields are smooth and clear vs. the available 60s or 61s where the fields had many marks and dings. Just my own experience folks.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
Are you talking about business strikes, Proofs or both?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It has been my experience, that a preference for the lower grade (58 vs 60) is often in the eye of the collector. Some slight wear vs. notable defects....Cheers, RickO
Both Mr. Feld. Few proofs, mostly business strikes. And US, England, and Scotland.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
Thank you. I would expect that to be the case with business strikes more often than with Proofs. But fortunately, both methods of manufacture can offer pleasing options if you look long enough.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I say no- Most 58s I have ever seen of of classic type have severely diminished mirrors where 60s have hairlines or dipped to death but some mirrors. I don’t like proofs with limited mirrors and the market agrees often
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
We’re talking proofs, not business strikes.
Here's a Proof 58 I cracked out of an NGC AU details cleaned holder.
Cool coin but I am not sure it is a proof. That appears to have the die chip in banner rev which is know to come PL but not in proof as a 1/2 hub combo. I would need a glass in hand to know for sure
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It looks like most of the Proof surface is gone on that 1875 Trade Dollar, especially on the reverse fields, which to look have been wiped, mostly up and down. I think that you are getting a lot of design detail from that coin, but not much from the Proof mirrors. It would probably be a pass for me.
So far as the first question goes, a PR-58 might be more desirable than a PR-60, but you need to look at it from a case by case basis.
I know that it is a different type, but this Gobrecht Dollar was graded PR-60. If I had a Grobrect Dollar in PR-58 that looked like the Trade Dollar shown above, I'd take the PR-60.
Take that up with our hosts as I sold it over 5 years ago on ebay!
If you could see the coin in hand I think you would call it a proof. Typical hairlines a mishandled proof gets. I meant to say details cleaned from NGC and will edit.
Does this proof 1844 half grade 58, 60, or other? Cam?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
61 no cam due to lack of mirrors but very nice
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Yes and yes
Sometimes.