Historically important coins?
MrEureka
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One of my pet peeves is how quick people are to call a coin "historically important". Granted, every coin played some role in history, so I suppose it would be fair to say that all coins are historical, but some are more historical than others. But to my way of thinking, few coins are actually of any historical importance. For example, and 1854-S Half Eagle is historically important because it documents the story of the newly opened San Francisco Mint and, to some extent, the Gold Rush that brought about the need for that mint. By comparison, an 1822 Half Eagle is, despite its greater rarity, far less important as a piece of history. And the Clapp-Eliasberg 1894-S Half Eagle in MS-69 is, despite its astonishing quality, of even less historical importance. Yes, all three are unbelievably great coins, and are among my all time favorites. But the way I see it, only the 54-S makes the cut as being "historically important".
In that spirit, post a picture of a coin that you consider of significant historical importance, and explain why. Or post a great coin that you consider of minimal historical importance, and explain why it's cool but doesn't make the cut as "historically important".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Comments
No explanation needed.
I consider this coin (HR Saint) historically important as it ushered in the golden era of US coin design:
What type of historical are we talking about? There's American history and there's also numismatic history. An 1861 cent would be historical since that was the first year of the Civil War. The 1892 Columbian half dollar would be numismatically historical since was our first commemorative coin. A couple of weeks ago I bought an 1836 quarter eagle which was the year the Alamo fell during the war for Texas independence. I love buying coins that are historically significant. When you buy a coin, I suggest that you do a web search for "What happened in the year XXXX". There are several web sites that list the events of the year that you search. It will really bring your coins to life.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My 2 cents...
Historic vs. Historical.
Historic describes something momentous or important in history.
Historical simply describes something that belongs to an earlier period of history.
When these terms are used in our hobby in the United States:
Historic numismatic specimen describes a specimen that was momentous or important to US history.
Historical numismatic specimen describes a specimen that belongs to a specific period of US history.
Example from an exhibit of the National Museum of American History (part of The Smithsonian) .
Item 2 is a Historic numismatic specimen as it is the actual gold nugget (from Sutter's Mill 1848) that sparked the rush for California gold. Items 1, 3 thru 6 are Historical numismatic specimens from the California gold rush period.
The Kennedy half dollar.
I would submit the 1861-D G$1 as historically important. Aside from being a civil war issue, it is proven to have been struck exclusively by the confederates after taking the Dahlonega mint.
Latin American Collection
Historically important for the success of a new country ?
As early as 1650, the colony of Massachusetts Bay was a commercial success. But an inadequate supply of money put its future development in jeopardy. England was not inclined to send gold and silver coins to the colonies, for they were in short supply in the mother country.
Taking matters into their own hands, Boston authorities allowed two settlers, John Hull and Robert Sanderson, to set up a mint in the capital in 1652. The two were soon striking silver coinage-shillings, sixpences, and threepences. Nearly all of the new coins bore the same date: 1652.
This was the origin of America's most famous colonial coin, the pine tree shilling. The name comes from the tree found on the obverse. It may symbolize one of the Bay Colony's prime exports, pine trees for ships' masts. Massachusetts coinage not only circulated within that colony, but was generally accepted throughout the Northeast, becoming a monetary standard in its own right.
Why the 1652 date? Some believe that it was intended to commemorate the founding of the Massachusetts mint, which did occur in 1652. Others believe the choice was a reflection of larger political events. Coinage was a prerogative of the King. In theory, these colonists had no right to strike their own coins, no matter how great their need.
But in 1652, there was no king. King Charles had been beheaded three years previously, and England was a republic. The people in Massachusetts may have cleverly decided to put that date on their coinage so that they could deny any illegality when and if the monarchy were reestablished.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I suggest that you do a web search for "What happened in the year XXXX". There are several web sites that list the events of the year that you search. It will really bring your coins to life.
Great idea
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
The appearance of VIGO on British coins dated 1703, including gold, and LIMA on silver issues dated 1746. This memorializes a different time and the shaping international power in the 18th century. Clearly there was a measurable impact in the Americas. This is not my coin as do not have an image to share of the one I own which is among the finest known.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Splitting hairs but historically significant and important are two different things. Crap produced by traitors attempting to split the republic to preserve evil, form a facility they seized to fund said evil is not any more import than coins made by any other illegitimate government. A significant artifact of that shameful history sure but not important. The weird fetishization and ionization of confederate artifacts speaks to the sick sympathy for that cause which has been systematically taught and spread by the descendants of that war in a semi-successful attempt to rebrand it into something positive or noble. I can’t think of a more low IQ concept then to consider the confederates anything but anti-abolitionists who rather kill their own country men than do hard work themself and treat all people as humans.
There isn’t much of a gap between the confederate artifacts/flags and the worst parts and people of our country. A dollar made by them isn’t important, it’s sad reminder of a pathetic group and horrible time
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Doesn’t the very fact that it invokes such a response make the case for it as an important piece of American numismatic history?
Edited to add: Significant and Important are synonyms in my view and aren’t intended to convey right or wrong, moral or immoral; they convey consequence and weight of the event.
Latin American Collection
Unfortunately history is not always something we want to hear but failing to recognize truthful events of the past in the context of the times does not bode well for the future.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
As a South Carolina resident, an hour away from Rebellion Roads, I actually concur with your sentiment on the CW.
To say collectors should not collect is a stretch.
Probably a worthwhile debate on a separate thread.
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1652 Massachusetts Shilling
1776 Continental Dollar
1792 Half Disme
1796 plugged US Silver Dollar
1848 CAL Quarter Eagle
1852 US Assay Slug
1861 CSA Half Dollar
1921 Peace Dollar
1964 Kennedy Half Dollar
Agreed. I find the history of our country and coinage fascinating. There’s at least two sides to history. For all the great things that happened, there were many not so great things as well.
For example:
Confederate coins are associated with slavery, rightly or wrongly.
California Territorial Gold is associated with the Chinese Exclusion Act, rightly or wrongly.
Southern Gold is associated with The Trail of Tears, rightly or wrongly.
A lot of people were maligned over the years and that history is intricately tied into our coins. Coins are a link to our past.
I do think of the future for some coins:
Statue of Liberty on Innobucks.
Lincoln Memorial Cent.
Both items are prominent in the Planet of the Apes future
Required reading... Cornerstone Speech, Texas and Mississippi Declaration and Causes for secession... brutally ugly, non revisionist, contemporary opinions.
But should Wilbur Slave tokens, slave badges, buttons, etc not be collected?
I hate the term cancel culture, but beginning to understand.
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The 1836 coinage first struck on a steam press commemorates an historic moment in progress of coining technology.
The 1909 Lincoln cent being the first circulating coin to feature a person, not a depiction of liberty.
The Booker T Washington commemorative half dollar, the first coin to feature a Black person.
The dollar coinage of Susan B Anthony, though much maligned, is the first circulating coin to feature a woman (not Liberty).
There are many world and ancient coins of great importance, tied to famous historical events, but typically it is because of the propaganda of despots. In the US we tend not to be too fond of monarchs, and our coins reflect that.
I've got to go make some popcorn. This thread is on the edge of becoming sufficiently contentious to provide some solid entertainment.
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
A chopmarked 1859-S Seated Dollar. Besides being the first silver dollar produced at San Francisco, this was the first attempt by the United States to create a coin aimed at international trade, albeit in an unofficial capacity, as it was produced at the request of early West Coast merchants looking to avoid having to pay high premiums associated with Mexican 8 Reales, the preferred type by the Chinese. An estimated 15,000 of the 20,000 mintage was sent to China, where most were absorbed into the channels of commerce and melted; it was not considered a success in and of itself. However, the lessons learned from this issue would be considered in the introduction of the Trade Dollar denomination less than 15 years later, a type that would serve as the blueprint for several other dedicated trade coins (the British and Japanese Trade Dollars, the French Piastre de Commerce, etc.) produced in a period of major commercial upheaval as the world reacted to swings in silver values, shifts to the gold standard, and political change that made China the go-to for most international silver.
By their very nature, real coins are mass produced for their intended use in commerce and aren’t unique enough to be historicically important like something like the Declaration of Independence. If they were, they wouldn’t be real coins used in Commerce. They would be medals or commemoratives or tokens or proofs. Or they would be transformed into a medal, token or commemorative. Like if the first coin produced was set aside for history it would no longer be a coin used in commerce. Coins themselves that were made for commerce, once they are no longer used for commerce, become historic artifacts, just like medals, tokens, proofs and tokens and are historically important. They are a piece of history that you can hold in your hand and own.
That’s about as close a description as I can come up with for conveying what I think about the historic importance of coins.
Mr_Spud
1933 Double Eagle, and of lesser but still 1913 5c.
The Buffalo nickel is one of the most amazing coins to me because that coin is very American, similar to but more so than the incuse quarter and half eagle coins. They all show authentic native Americans while the nickel also shows the bison.
I would say the 1857-S $20, a zillion of which you can find with the special shipwreck holders. When the SS-Central America went down along with her 15 tons of gold, it became a significant contributor to the Panic of 1857. Banks failed because this ship went down. I would conjecture that the economic shock played a role in the timing of the US Civil War, although I would readily acknowledge that the issue of slavery would almost assuredly have led to armed conflict even if the Central America had docked in New York safely.
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I always mention these two issues when this topic comes up and would argue their importance over anything so far mentioned.
--- 1943 Steel Lincoln Cents.
--- 1942-1945 Jefferson Nickels.
The same mint workers that struck the 1861-D gold dollars under the CSA were the same mint workers that had previously struck coins at the Dahlonega Mint under the USA.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Definitely. Copper and nickel were critical to the war effort and couldn't be spared for coins.
Based on the following, it seems like copper was used for shooting things and nickel was used for protection against being shot!
Copper
Copper is used for ammunition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_steel_cent
From Quora, copper is used in bullet jackets to protect the barrel as the bullet travels through it and also to keep the bullet in better shape.
https://www.quora.com/Why-copper-is-used-in-bullets
Nickel
https://republicofmining.com/2009/02/13/nickel-closest-thing-to-a-true-‘war-metal’-by-stan-sudol/
Wikipedia is silent on this, just saying:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_nickel#1938–1945:_Early_minting;_World_War_II_changes
An 1848 CAL. $2.50 gold piece. This coin was made from the first shipment of gold that was received from California. That shipment proved that the gold strike was real, not just a rumor.
1795 half eagle. The first U.S. gold coins.
Maybe this is a stretch. 1838-D $5 gold. First coins struck at the Dahlonega, Georgia Mint.
1792 Half Disme. The first coin struck using the standards established by the Coinage Act of 1792, and made from silver supplied by Thomas Jefferson. A strong argument could be made that this is the first U.S. coin.
"Out of the money?"
The 1802 half dime. Rare and very expensive, but there is no history around it other than collectors have prized it for over 150 years.
How about a coin that calls for the death of a political rival?
Is that similar to the 1822 Half Eagle?
Yep, just rare and frustrating because it prevents me from completing my set. It does share a reverse die with the 1801 half dime, so I guess I can say that I have half of the coin.
My criteria is stricter than any of the posts I read here. Everything (literally) has a history in the sense that it existed, so it is historical in this context.
I don't consider hardly any coin to be historical in the sense that I interpret most sentiments on this subject (generally, not in this thread) and definitely not important.
The most historically significant coinage to me is the 66-70 CE First Jewish Revolt coinage.
This would be every coin in my collection. Many are scarce and maybe also "cool" to others but none are historically important by my definition.
Very historic in that the coins were a reason for and outcome of the war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish–Roman_War
Wonderful thread, thanks guys
the 1856 Flying Eagle - First small cent
The 1965 Clad coins - start of a new era (and to an extent the 1964 Silver coins as the last (despite the fact they minted the 1964's until 1966 and the 1965-1969 Halves are 40% silver.)
I have posted this on the World Coins forum in the past but seems relevant here:
The La Rioja 8 Reales comes in two distinct types; one with the legend honoring General Rosas, the dictator overseeing the Argentinian Confederation from Buenas Aires, and another, which this feature is about, which La Rioja Governor Tomas Bizuela altered in support of open rebellion against Rosas.
In 1840, the legends of the Rosas honoring Argentinian Confederation 8 Reales were altered from “Repub. Argentina Confederada” and “Eterno loor al Restaurador Rosas” (Eternal praise for the Restaurador Rosas) to the Rebel backed “Republica Argentina” En Union y Libertad” (In union and freedom)
Brizuela, a previous Rosas supporter, disagreed with the dictators totalitarian policies governing the Confederation, including the lack of a central constitution. The point of why Brizuela’s led the rebellion is important as it has long influenced the naming of this piece. The “Rebel Peso” has often been called the “Unitarian” issue due to the rebellion being linked to the Unitarian factions in the Confederation who wanted to unify Argentina. Mariano Cohen’s recent work clearly expands on this simplified view of Brizuelas (and the Northern Coalitions) motivations and concludes that there was a more complex set of issues which led to a rebellion against the totalitarian Rosas. With that, the generally accepted term has been confirmed to the “Rebel” vs. “Unitarian”
In September 1840, Brizuela and the various other governors of the northern provinces signed the Treaty of the Northern Coalition which consisted of 14 articles laying out an offensive and defensive alliance and naming Brizuela as the General and Governor.
The Rebel forces experienced staggering defeats at the hands of Rosas and Brizuela was killed in March 1841.
What remains of the ill-fated rebellion is the “Rebel Peso” which is the key silver coin to the Argentinian series and important in its representation of the ill-fated rebellion which sought to oust the dictator Rosas and unite Argentina into a single union .
This text borrowed heavily from Mariano Cohen’s work linked here: https://ifinra.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/rebeldes-riojanas-1840.pdf
I was privileged to recently acquire what may be the finest extranet Rebel Peso from @MrEureka. Previous to MrE, the piece was in the Millennia Collection sold by Goldberg in 2008. Previous to the Goldberg sale, the piece was in there FCC Boyd Collection sold at the Superior 1975 ANA sale. It was suggested that Don Canaparo purchased the coin out of the 1975 sale and was the intermediate owner between Boyd’s estate and Millennia. While Boyd’s world collection was dispersed in 1975, he passed away in 1958 with the majority of his collection being formed in the 20’s-40’s culminating with the sale of his US coins in the Worlds Greatest Collection sale in 1946. So with that linage, the ownership of this coin is reasonably clear going back almost 100 years.
Latin American Collection
The first coins struck in the new world might be considered historically important.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/kq/dqqr0b11xtb9.jpg
Can't get more historical than being given these coins by the reigning monarch. Been ongoing since the 1600's
For me its 1803 $2.5 J-C1803-2 Kettle & Sons Gaming Token, Birmingham, Eng. SILVERED BRASS NGC MS61
only one graded at PCGS and now mine at NGC.......you have it listed in your website I think mine is better struck and nice looking.
Took years of searching and completes my Turban Head Kettle collection. Except for one more to be submitted this week,
a half eagle gilt with no signature
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I think the Fugio deserves a mention. First federally authorized coinage with an inspiring “We Are One” message.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
This is arguably the most historically important ancient coin, minted by Brutus commemorating his assassination of Julius Caesar on the Ides of March (Eid Mar), 44BC. The daggers represent Brutus and his co-conspirator Cassius, with the liberty cap symbolizing the freedom of the Roman people.
He minted it to remind his troops of their cause during the battle of Phillipi, where he ultimately lost and committed suicide with the same dagger he used to kill Caesar.
I almost posted this coin but knew you would come along and post it! Can't argue this history involved with that coin!
Since we have moved to ancient and foreign coins, I’ll post this one. This groat (4 pence) features a life-like portrait of King Henry VII, who was Henry VIII’s father. This piece is not dated, but it’s from the early 1500s. The historical part is that is shows that the Renaissance period had reached British coinage.
Before that, all of the British kings had pretty much looked like this fellow. This is an earlier groat of Henry VII.
Because you think something is bad doesn’t make it historically unimportant. Remember it’s always Nazi week on the History Channel.
Coins are not foreign... they are World coins
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Great thread topic and many meritorious responses.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet would at least IMHO qualify is the $20 1861-S Paquet Reverse minted in San Francisco. It has an interesting historical connection to Communication technology between the East and West Coasts as it existed at the time of its minting.
For those not acquainted with the story, a message had been sent out by the powers to be in Washington to not go forward with use of the dies that had already been delivered. The message, however, did not reach the San Francisco mint in time due to the fact that the transcontinental telegraph was not yet completed. Instead it went by Pony Express.
Several thousand had escaped the mint before production was halted.
Here is a link to my post on another thread which includes a photo of my specimen. Interestingly of the 19,250 that were struck by the San Francisco mint only 200-300 are known to presently exist. The other point of interest about this rare coin is that there are no known uncirculated examples. The story goes that it was years before coin collectors even knew of its existence so none were preserved in mint state.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12611505#Comment_12611505
The definition used above is why I don't consider hardly any coin of historic significance. Numismatic significance is something else entirely, of interest to some proportion of coin collectors and maybe a very low number who study a specific aspect of the time but almost never more than that.
An above post includes transition to clad coinage. I doubt many US collectors think of it this way (I don't) but the change in the monetary system is more tangible than the connection the vast majority of coins have to any event. Other than existing, most coins have no "important" connection to any event, either from the year it was struck or subsequently.
There is a difference between liking a coin (what seems to be actually described most of the time) and this subject. If there are supposedly so many historic significant coins (numismatic or generally), this dilutes it to the point where it is essentially meaningless.
In the above example of clad coinage, I'd consider a manuscript of the legislation (if it is unique or one of a few) of historic significance; the object itself is historic. Claiming it for any one of over a billion 1965 dimes and quarters, no.
Interesting perspective. So would you consider my 1861-S Paquet Reverse historic by your standards or not?