Authentic counterfeit vs. counterfeit counterfeit

Zoins · February 16, 2021 8:54AM

I want an authentic counterfeit, not a counterfeit counterfeit.

The following quote was recently posted to the boards.

What's the difference between an authentic and counterfeit counterfeit?

From what I can tell, there's more collector acceptance of counterfeits meant to fool merchants than those mean to fool collectors and dealers. Is that the difference between an "authentic" and "counterfeit" counterfeit?

davewesen · February 16, 2021 9:06AM

maybe they mean contemporary that was used in circulation?

PerryHall · February 16, 2021 9:23AM

Some people collect contemporary counterfeit coins that actually circulated as money in the era when gold and silver coins circulated as money. I assume counterfeit counterfeits refer to the US coins flooding the market from china.

TomB · February 16, 2021 9:28AM

@Zoins said:

I want an authentic counterfeit, not a counterfeit counterfeit.

The following quote was recently posted to the boards.

What's the difference between an authentic and counterfeit counterfeit?

From what I can tell, there's more collector acceptance of counterfeits meant to fool merchants than those mean to fool collectors and dealers. Is that the difference between an "authentic" and "counterfeit" counterfeit?

In my opinion that is more or less the difference. Off the top of my head I can think of Henning nickels and bogus Busties as counterfeits that were meant to be introduced into the channels of commerce for the direct purchase of goods or services. Later generations of fakes meant to deceive collectors would be a different story. Of course, there are items that were meant to deceive collectors from the start and some of these are accepted in numismatics and have a long history. Therefore, I doubt I can come up with a clean definition.

seanq · February 16, 2021 9:34AM

I have recently picked up a few contemporary counterfeit silver Three Cent pieces and Shield nickels, they pop up unattributed on eBay occasionally. I find them fascinating, how crudely some were made yet they still managed to circulate to low grades, fooling who knows how many merchants.

Sean Reynolds

jmlanzaf · February 16, 2021 9:52AM

Wouldn't a counterfeit counterfeit be an authentic coin?

Jimnight · February 16, 2021 10:04AM

@Zoins said:

I want an authentic counterfeit, not a counterfeit counterfeit.

The following quote was recently posted to the boards.

What's the difference between an authentic and counterfeit counterfeit?

From what I can tell, there's more collector acceptance of counterfeits meant to fool merchants than those mean to fool collectors and dealers. Is that the difference between an "authentic" and "counterfeit" counterfeit?

Bruce Lee said there is a "punch" ... then there is a "Punch".

IMO ... I would say....

There is an authentic counterfeit ( replica ) ... then there is an counterfeit counterfeit.

jmlanzaf · February 16, 2021 10:21AM

@Zoins said:

I want an authentic counterfeit, not a counterfeit counterfeit.

The following quote was recently posted to the boards.

What's the difference between an authentic and counterfeit counterfeit?

From what I can tell, there's more collector acceptance of counterfeits meant to fool merchants than those mean to fool collectors and dealers. Is that the difference between an "authentic" and "counterfeit" counterfeit?

Honestly, I don't think most modern counterfeits are designed to fool anyone. Aren't a lot of the Alibaba coins just souvenir tokens with no attempt to really fool anyone?

Is that what they were trying to say?

mannie gray · February 16, 2021 5:42PM

@seanq said:
I have recently picked up a few contemporary counterfeit silver Three Cent pieces and Shield nickels, they pop up unattributed on eBay occasionally. I find them fascinating, how crudely some were made yet they still managed to circulate to low grades, fooling who knows how many merchants.

Sean Reynolds

Yeah I look for them too.
Recently I was bidding on a 1875 contemporary counterfeit Shield Nickel and (smugly) thought I was the only one who noticed it until my somewhat nuclear manual snipe got blown out of the water.
Same deal with a 1894-S "Barber Half" a month or so ago.

Lakesammman · February 17, 2021 6:56AM

I bought some from JK who said they were made by the mint - those are the authentic ones.

WAYNEAS · February 17, 2021 7:15AM

Does anybody know the annual monetary loss due to the counterfeiting of coins?

BustDMs · February 17, 2021 7:50AM

If you are interested in “original” counterfeit (contemporary) coins here are a few things to read on the subject.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 17, 2021 8:14AM

@Zoins said:
What's the difference between an authentic and counterfeit counterfeit?

.
hmm when i read this, i thought of this coin and since i delved into the rabbit hole that is my backup database, i grabbed a few extra images. should be fun.

seanq · February 17, 2021 8:16AM

@mannie gray said:

@seanq said:
I have recently picked up a few contemporary counterfeit silver Three Cent pieces and Shield nickels, they pop up unattributed on eBay occasionally. I find them fascinating, how crudely some were made yet they still managed to circulate to low grades, fooling who knows how many merchants.

Sean Reynolds

Yeah I look for them too.
Recently I was bidding on a 1875 contemporary counterfeit Shield Nickel and (smugly) thought I was the only one who noticed it until my somewhat nuclear manual snipe got blown out of the water.
Same deal with a 1894-S "Barber Half" a month or so ago.

Depending on your definition of "recent," I might have taken that one from you, I won an 1875 counterfeit Shield back in October. I don't get to check all the time but there are a surprising number of contemporary counterfeits out there fooling collectors even today.

Sean Reynolds

ernie11 · February 17, 2021 8:18AM

I have a contemporary counterfeit that I inherited from my grandfather. He ran a store in the 1920's and maybe he saved it because he recognized it as such, I don't know for sure. I don't have photo capabilities right now to show it to you all. When I finally found out it was counterfeit, I was very disappointed because it was an 1872-CC dime, and who wouldn't want a genuine example of that date / denomination?

CaptHenway · February 17, 2021 8:36AM

Modern Chinese felkerkarb:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-No-D-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-off-strike/294018549920?hash=item4474df08a0:g:FikAAOSwzQxgLIrm

Zoins · February 17, 2021 8:51AM

Would a counterfeit of modern NCLT, like an AGE. be an authentic or contemporary counterfeit?

sellitstore · February 17, 2021 4:09PM

Contemporary counterfeit obsolete, Confederate, National and all types of Federal contemporary counterfeit currency are quiet collectible, although the negotiable ones are technically illegal to collect. Some obsolete notes are only known as counterfeits as all genuine notes were redeemed, leaving only the counterfeits.

mannie gray · February 17, 2021 4:10PM

@seanq said:

@mannie gray said:

@seanq said:
I have recently picked up a few contemporary counterfeit silver Three Cent pieces and Shield nickels, they pop up unattributed on eBay occasionally. I find them fascinating, how crudely some were made yet they still managed to circulate to low grades, fooling who knows how many merchants.

Sean Reynolds

Yeah I look for them too.
Recently I was bidding on a 1875 contemporary counterfeit Shield Nickel and (smugly) thought I was the only one who noticed it until my somewhat nuclear manual snipe got blown out of the water.
Same deal with a 1894-S "Barber Half" a month or so ago.

Depending on your definition of "recent," I might have taken that one from you, I won an 1875 counterfeit Shield back in October. I don't get to check all the time but there are a surprising number of contemporary counterfeits out there fooling collectors even today.

Sean Reynolds

I'm getting old...anything after 2010 is recent, lol
It may have been last fall.
Tempus Fugit.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 17, 2021 4:18PM

how about these 2? authentic counterfeits or counterfeit counterfeits?

Bruce7789 · February 17, 2021 11:50PM

The counterfeiters in China and Singapore have had a lot of experience over the last 70 years. In the Chinese coins I inherited from my Aunt, there were these two coins wrapped in what looked like oilcloth and labeled "Patterns". These coins came from a Merchant Marine sailor friend of my Grandfathers and were brought back to the states in the early 1950's. They are nice looking coins, but unless Silver, which the book says they are, has suddenly become magnetic, they have to be fake!!
Fung Tien Pattern coin

Georgi Pattern coin

I don't even know for sure that these are based on actual production coins.

ricko · February 18, 2021 5:35AM

Can you counterfeit a counterfeit? Or is it merely a copy? Really, a coin is either authentic or a copy. If passed in commerce, then it rises to the position of counterfeit, since it is imitating/functioning as real money. Otherwise, it is a copy. Cheers, RickO

Treashunt · February 18, 2021 5:59AM

Authentic counterfeit vs. counterfeit counterfeit

I love that sentence

burfle23 · February 18, 2021 10:32AM

I interpreted the statement from the other board to differentiate the Chinese fakes from others. The "others" include for me contemporary counterfeits and old time electrotypes. I have seen discussions concerning where alterations fit and there are two sides to that discussion, and I am not sure where the really deceptive ones that make their way into genuine TPG holders "fit" ("certified" counterfeits?) ...
And then there is this one from my collection- an electrotype of an altered coin!

BustDMs · February 18, 2021 11:40AM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
how about these 2? authentic counterfeits or counterfeit counterfeits?

Cool CC half eagle!

Did someone chase up the full mintmark or just an additional C?

LanceNewmanOCC · February 18, 2021 1:36PM

@BustDMs said:
Did someone chase up the full mintmark or just an additional C?

nah. just playing with MS Paint many years ago to see how good a job i could do to take a mm from a genuine coin image and posting to a genuine philly coin image. this is that baby.

only showed it to 1 person all this time as i didn't have much desire to see the image posted on some site for sale. now there is so much out there i'm not sure it makes much difference. it looks kinda neat and if i had bigger images, it would become readily apparent to branch mint gold enthusiasts that something were awry from the image.

just posted now also to see what kind of commentary i would get w/o tipping my hand.

also waiting to see someone say that indian would make a lovely album coin.

Bruce7789 · February 18, 2021 3:44PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@BustDMs said:
Did someone chase up the full mintmark or just an additional C?

nah. just playing with MS Paint many years ago to see how good a job i could do to take a mm from a genuine coin image and posting to a genuine philly coin image. this is that baby.

only showed it to 1 person all this time as i didn't have much desire to see the image posted on some site for sale. now there is so much out there i'm not sure it makes much difference. it looks kinda neat and if i had bigger images, it would become readily apparent to branch mint gold enthusiasts that something were awry from the image.

just posted now also to see what kind of commentary i would get w/o tipping my hand.

also waiting to see someone say that indian would make a lovely album coin.

Nice Job! and that Indian would make a nice Album coin....

Did you add the CC to the 1840 coin also?

rec78 · February 18, 2021 7:23PM

Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Zoins · February 18, 2021 7:34PM

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

rec78 · February 18, 2021 7:59PM

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Why counterfeit a coin and make its' intrinsic value more than the real thing if there is no collector value at the time? I would like to know the highest grade PCGS graded one of these. Most likely VF or lower? Are there any micro-o fakes known to exist in Unc. grades?

Zoins · February 18, 2021 8:00PM

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Why counterfeit a coin and make its' intrinsic value more than the real thing if there is no collector value at the time? I would like to know the highest grade PCGS graded one of these. Most likely VF or lower? Are there any micro-o fakes known to exist in Unc. grades?

If they have more silver, I would lean to assuming they are counterfeit counterfeits, but it seems collectors love these.

rec78 · February 18, 2021 8:03PM

If you can find one in a PCGS holder, it is worth quite a bit now.> @Zoins said:

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Why counterfeit a coin and make its' intrinsic value more than the real thing if there is no collector value at the time? I would like to know the highest grade PCGS graded one of these. Most likely VF or lower? Are there any micro-o fakes known to exist in Unc. grades?

If they have more silver, I would lean to assuming they are counterfeit counterfeits, but it seems collectors love these.

If you can find one in a PCGS holder, it is worth quite a bit now.

Zoins · February 18, 2021 8:14PM

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Why counterfeit a coin and make its' intrinsic value more than the real thing if there is no collector value at the time? I would like to know the highest grade PCGS graded one of these. Most likely VF or lower? Are there any micro-o fakes known to exist in Unc. grades?

If they have more silver, I would lean to assuming they are counterfeit counterfeits, but it seems collectors love these.

If you can find one in a PCGS holder, it is worth quite a bit now.

So counterfeit counterfeits can be very popular and pricey.

burfle23 · February 19, 2021 6:50AM

My low grade example and slab!

PerryHall · February 20, 2021 3:43AM

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:

@Zoins said:

@rec78 said:
Do micro-o Morgans qualify as real counterfeits?

Not sure. Why would they be contemporary but have more silver?

Morgan dollar die variety specialists are reportedly excited over a recently discovered counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar. The coin has die links to the fake Micro O Morgan dollars that specialists identified more than a decade ago and that remain popular with collectors despite their illegal origin.
...
Excitement over a fake
...
Van Allen has assigned the new counterfeit 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar die as VAM-59.
...
While many collectors would shy away from counterfeit coins, it is likely that VAM specialists will seek out new examples of the VAM 59 coin. As the SSDC article notes, “This discovery expands the size of the Micro O counterfeit ‘family’ of die marriages further, and gives collectors another very interesting coin to look for.”
...
The fake 1900-O/CC Morgan dollar and the Micro O dollar fakes appear to date to the early 20th century. Many are made of a higher fineness of silver than the genuine coins. The counterfeiters responsible for the various related coins appear to have been prolific, producing many die pairs — something today’s collectors appreciate.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/specialist-identify-counterfeit-1900-o-cc-morgan-dollar-with-links-to-micro-o-fakes.html

Interesting article. Thanks! Why counterfeit a coin and make its' intrinsic value more than the real thing if there is no collector value at the time? I would like to know the highest grade PCGS graded one of these. Most likely VF or lower? Are there any micro-o fakes known to exist in Unc. grades?

If they have more silver, I would lean to assuming they are counterfeit counterfeits, but it seems collectors love these.

If you can find one in a PCGS holder, it is worth quite a bit now.

So counterfeit counterfeits can be very popular and pricey.

Can someone tell me the population numbers of these three coins? I'm curious how many are still in their PCGS slabs. I understand that PCGS bought up these mistakes after discovering that they had slabbed counterfeit coins.

Twobitcollector · February 20, 2021 4:00AM

Zoins · February 20, 2021 6:50AM

When did researchers first discover the Micro-O Morgan varieties, when they were still thought to be genuine.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 23, 2021 3:12AM

@Zoins said:
When did researchers first discover the Micro-O Morgan varieties, when they were still thought to be genuine.

i don't recall the date but i do recall over at vamworld that has been discussed at LENGTH!

PerryHall · February 23, 2021 4:19AM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@Zoins said:
When did researchers first discover the Micro-O Morgan varieties, when they were still thought to be genuine.

i don't recall the date but i do recall over at vamworld that has been discussed at LENGTH!

In 2005 PCGS put out an announcement that these coins would no longer be slabbed by them since they were discovered to be counterfeit. They also offered to buy back the ones that had already been slabbed by them. I'm guessing those that own these 1896, 1900, and 1902 PCGS slabbed micro O mintmark coins are holding on to them tighter than ever. Does anyone here have one?

Namvet69 · February 25, 2021 7:06AM

@Zoins I enjoy this thread.
So I did my part for the good of the order by removing this fake from circulation. Flea market find when a vendor offered it up as a Trade dollar. I informed him not and bogus to boot. It's not magnetic and 25.4g, has a decent high pitch sound but the surface is pitted and other things.
Peace Roy

LanceNewmanOCC · February 25, 2021 8:48AM

@Namvet69 said:

Namvet69 · February 25, 2021 11:37AM

@LanceNewmanOCC thanks for opening them up. Are you aware of anyone who keeps track of these fakes by known markers. On this one there's a void in the first S in States. Thanks Roy

LanceNewmanOCC · February 25, 2021 12:28PM

@Namvet69 said:
@LanceNewmanOCC thanks for opening them up. Are you aware of anyone who keeps track of these fakes by known markers. On this one there's a void in the first S in States. Thanks Roy

yw.

i kinda used to and i'm sure there are a few people outside the TPGs that still do so for various reasons. this particular one doesn't need that because it is so obvious imo but i concede that what you are asking about comes with a multitude of benefits albeit being quite time/effort consuming to track/keep a database of over the long haul.

with that particular diagnostic you mentioned on the rev, which i see since you pointed it out, can most likely be found on other dates, especially since the date is so different from the rest of the coin indicating that the (master?) dies were undated and have some serious incest going on. that type of thing is what leads to better quality counterfeits being identified @burfle23, @ArizonaRareCoins and some others whose names elude me at the moment. i'm confident the LSCC, BHNC, SSDC and several other Organizations do extensive tracking for counterfeit detection and authentication.

another odd thing that jumps out to me is the extra elbow drapery. imo, it doesn't match the rest of the surfaces and/or strength/weakness of the devices.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 25, 2021 12:37PM

here are some for you to determine. authentic, authentic counterfeit, counterfeit counterfeit.

Namvet69 · February 25, 2021 1:51PM

@LanceNewmanOCC you have been very helpful. I'm glad to know you here on CU. Roy

dcarr · February 25, 2021 8:59PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
how about these 2? authentic counterfeits or counterfeit counterfeits?

Looks like a genuine 1840-O Half Eagle with a photo-shopped "CC" added to the image.
The 1909-S cent looks like a modern manufacture (not just the mint mark, but the whole coin).

LanceNewmanOCC · February 25, 2021 9:35PM

@dcarr said:
Looks like a genuine 1840-O Half Eagle with a photo-shopped "CC" added to the image.
The 1909-S cent looks like a modern manufacture (not just the mint mark, but the whole coin).

.
i've enjoyed the few interactions we've had; though they've not been enough. we could have a lot of fun together!

well done sir.

dcarr · February 25, 2021 9:45PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
here are some for you to determine. authentic, authentic counterfeit, counterfeit counterfeit.

1795 half cent: Secondary impression of "ES OF AMERI" and wreath on reverse from about 2:00 to 5:00. Apparent knife cuts on obverse. This is not a series that I have studied very much, so I would have to do more study to determine authenticity.
1885-o Morgan (micro-o): modern Chinese manufacture, not silver, based on 1921 obverse and 1921 reverse hub styles.
1901-O Morgan: vintage counterfeit VAM-60, related to the vintage 1896-1900-1902 micro-o family.
1876-S Trade Dollar: Appears genuine, cleaned - but possibly a modern manufacture (weak dentils below "O" of DOLLAR and Type-I obverse with Type-2 reverse and a large mint mark - other 1876-S Trade Dollars seem to come with only a small mint mark when the reverse is Type-2, but I don't have the book to be sure).
1893-CC Morgan: modern Chinese manufacture, not silver.
1864-L cent: modern manufacture in bronze, "1864" date style is wrong (obverse die was molded from a genuine coin, but that coin was not an 1864, so the maker added the "1864" to the die).
1936 cent: Genuine, off-center strike, nice coin.
1843 Large Cent: At first, it looks a little mushy in detail indicating a copy. But I think it is a genuine coin that was cleaned and smoothed, and then re-colored.

LanceNewmanOCC · February 25, 2021 9:51PM

@dcarr said:
1901-O Morgan: vintage counterfeit VAM-60, related to the vintage 1896-1900-1902 micro-o family.

if you were to get even just one, i'd hope it'd be that one but you were pretty spot-on. lol

gotta love that diagnostic "gouge" on the reverse. i seriously botched purchasing a micro O in nearly the same condition early last year. i guess if you're gonna botch one, 2020 is a good year to do it?

dcarr · February 25, 2021 9:58PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@dcarr said:
Looks like a genuine 1840-O Half Eagle with a photo-shopped "CC" added to the image.
The 1909-S cent looks like a modern manufacture (not just the mint mark, but the whole coin).

.
i've enjoyed the few interactions we've had; though they've not been enough. we could have a lot of fun together!

well done sir.

Maybe at some future coin show, when they start having them again.

dcarr · February 25, 2021 10:08PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@dcarr said:
1901-O Morgan: vintage counterfeit VAM-60, related to the vintage 1896-1900-1902 micro-o family.

if you were to get even just one, i'd hope it'd be that one but you were pretty spot-on. lol

gotta love that diagnostic "gouge" on the reverse. i seriously botched purchasing a micro O in nearly the same condition early last year. i guess if you're gonna botch one, 2020 is a good year to do it?

That would have been a good find in a grade like that.

I recently "won" on eBay this 1902-O privately-made VAM-67 (with impossible C3 reverse of 1900):
https://ebay.com/itm/373270626074
But immediately after I paid the seller wrote that they could not find it and were cancelling the sale.
I replied with: "You sure gave up looking for it awfully quick. So I guess you sold it out from underneath me to someone else". They didn't reply to that. Oh well, there are always some deals that fall through (lately, more than usual for me).

Authentic counterfeit vs. counterfeit counterfeit

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