@nwcoast said:
I might respectfully disagree with the many not considering coins as a legitimate investment.
Like any “investment” careful consideration and specifics need to be accounted for in this debate.
Sure, broad stock indexes have outperformed over time, but many individual stocks, once highly esteemed blue chips have gone to zero over time. Nothing is a sure thing. Betting on any single item carries with it much higher risk.
I hold that rare, high quality coins hold a modest place in an investment portfolio while still providing the collectors with some measure of fun and enjoyment.
I would put (some) coins in there along with fine art, antiquities, original photography and even collectible cars, as legitimate “investment” materials, though I wouldn’t put a big chunk of my net worth into any single one of the later categories personally. I’m all about diversifying wealth, and enjoying some of it!
Edited to answer the question: Personally, not modern ultra super high grade materials. No disrespect to those specialists that work in that arena. I fear coins changing in holders and the vagaries inherent in the marketplace for modern issues.
I personally don't consider ANY collectibles to be investments and even commodities and other asset classes like farmland, timber, and even the more general private equity come with risks. Having advised professionally for decades, I generally try to distinguish betwen an investment and a speculation.
The key factors that distinguish the 3 traditional asset classes -- stocks, bonds, and cash -- from others is that they:
Participate in the growth of the real economy of the U.S. (or world).
Pay a dividend or interest which helps to compound returns over time.
Offer liquidity and transparency in pricing.
You can't get that from collectibles as no two MS-66 Saints or Mickey Mantle rookie cards are exactly alike. But every 100 shares of Microsoft or IBM is the same as any other.
For experts in coins, if you are willing to spend lots of time each day over many years and decades I don't doubt that you can give yourselves an edge and make it worthwhile monetarily, just as a dealer can make a business out of his interest, too. But that's the exception as for most of us this is a HOBBY and we're not going to be spending inordinate periods of time researching whether the next hot flows are out of Morgan Silver Dollars and into Liberty Seateds.
Thank you for the astute differentiation between those asset classes @GoldFinger1969.
You’re points are very well taken!
I hadn’t thought of it quite in those terms until your contribution here. 🙂
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Back in the 1960s, one of my coin magazines (“Coins” “COINage” ?) advised collecting $20 gold pieces by date, buying only the common ones. Back then I only bought from “expensive” dealers who charged $75 each for them. There were advertisements in the coin magazines for $49.95, but who knows what you would have received? There were counterfeits in those days as well as pieces that “had been through the wringer.”
According to a Google search, $100 in 1967 is now worth $889 in round numbers. So $75 would be $667 today. Since gold is now over $1,800, that’s’s not a bad investment. Of course who knows how gold will perform in the future, and, of course, gold pays no interest or dividends along the way.
BTW, back then numismatic investors said gold coins were “a safe investment” not a good one. Those guys would have probably had you stashing rolls of coins. If they were silver, you would have done okay. If they were cents or nickels, you would be out of luck.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@Panda4456 said:
I have some thoughts about the best coins to buy and HOLD for a long time to make a decent return on your money.
Ms63-64 common date graded Morgan dollars:
If you can buy these for around $50 that is a great price. You have people who love the design and like uncirculated examples of these coins. They also contain silver so if silver prices went to the moon 🚀 then you could make a killing. You really can’t go wrong with uncirculated examples of Morgan dollars. It’s almost impossible to lose unless you pay too much to begin with.
US-Philippines pesos:
These are an amazing investment if you can buy mint state graded examples of the pesos from 1903-1912. The beginning of this series is the same size of the Morgan dollar and 90% silver. These are highly sought after and extremely rare compared to Morgan dollars. Some of the gem proofs US-Philippines proofs a few years ago were around $2000 now are $8000+. I have some ms61 examples of these coins that I will always hold. Philippines is one of the fastest growing countries and they have an extreme interest in coins. As the wealth grows, the value of their coins will go up. There are many philippines Facebook groups with tens of thousands of users that love these coins.
Chinese silver panda 1983, 1984, 1985
These three years are limited to 10,000 mintages and not all of those survived.everyone loves the panda and China is a growing nation. An 800 dollar coin now should be worth thousands in the years to come in my opinion.
What coins are you buying and holding for the long term?
I agree completely with your statement: "It’s almost impossible to lose unless you pay too much to begin with". The problem is, though, that we often don't find out how much is too much to pay to begin with until years later,
@MsMorrisine said:
coins as an investment. no.
bullion coins as an investment. yes.
buy a gold eagle or buff.
At least the bullion markets are more "public".
Quasi-numismatic gold and/or silver should do well if gold trades up to $3,000 an ounce in a few years and silver re-approaches $50/oz.....as I think is very doable for both.
For a rise to $5,000 gold and $100/silver.....should they materialize....yes, bullion is probably the better play. But buying some numismatics without HUGE premiums -- like 200-1,000% or so -- should let you track the metal on a sustained rise.
If you bought an MS63 Morgan $ today for $40 and held it for 20 years, it would have to be worth $106 to get a 5 percent return.
Now, I know, that might seem achievable but lets work backwords. If that MS63 Morgan is worth $40 today and you've been holding it for 20 years, you had to buy it for $15 in 2001 to have achieved a "decent return".
Where are all these certified MS63 Morgans for $40? Please send them to me!
What's that? Zombie thread? Speak up, I can't hear you.
Comments
Books, series knowledge, grading expertise....then coins.
I personally don't consider ANY collectibles to be investments and even commodities and other asset classes like farmland, timber, and even the more general private equity come with risks. Having advised professionally for decades, I generally try to distinguish betwen an investment and a speculation.
The key factors that distinguish the 3 traditional asset classes -- stocks, bonds, and cash -- from others is that they:
You can't get that from collectibles as no two MS-66 Saints or Mickey Mantle rookie cards are exactly alike. But every 100 shares of Microsoft or IBM is the same as any other.
For experts in coins, if you are willing to spend lots of time each day over many years and decades I don't doubt that you can give yourselves an edge and make it worthwhile monetarily, just as a dealer can make a business out of his interest, too. But that's the exception as for most of us this is a HOBBY and we're not going to be spending inordinate periods of time researching whether the next hot flows are out of Morgan Silver Dollars and into Liberty Seateds.
Thank you for the astute differentiation between those asset classes @GoldFinger1969.
You’re points are very well taken!
I hadn’t thought of it quite in those terms until your contribution here. 🙂
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Investment wise- stocks, bonds and such
coins as a investment isn't that good of an idea and MS63 coins like morgans and such they can make money no doubt but not much
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
Back in the 1960s, one of my coin magazines (“Coins” “COINage” ?) advised collecting $20 gold pieces by date, buying only the common ones. Back then I only bought from “expensive” dealers who charged $75 each for them. There were advertisements in the coin magazines for $49.95, but who knows what you would have received? There were counterfeits in those days as well as pieces that “had been through the wringer.”
According to a Google search, $100 in 1967 is now worth $889 in round numbers. So $75 would be $667 today. Since gold is now over $1,800, that’s’s not a bad investment. Of course who knows how gold will perform in the future, and, of course, gold pays no interest or dividends along the way.
BTW, back then numismatic investors said gold coins were “a safe investment” not a good one. Those guys would have probably had you stashing rolls of coins. If they were silver, you would have done okay. If they were cents or nickels, you would be out of luck.
I agree completely with your statement: "It’s almost impossible to lose unless you pay too much to begin with". The problem is, though, that we often don't find out how much is too much to pay to begin with until years later,
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
1911-D $2.50 Indian Gold.
Damn, snagged by another zombie thread.
@oldabeintx
No doubt!!
At least the bullion markets are more "public".
Quasi-numismatic gold and/or silver should do well if gold trades up to $3,000 an ounce in a few years and silver re-approaches $50/oz.....as I think is very doable for both.
For a rise to $5,000 gold and $100/silver.....should they materialize....yes, bullion is probably the better play. But buying some numismatics without HUGE premiums -- like 200-1,000% or so -- should let you track the metal on a sustained rise.
Where are all these certified MS63 Morgans for $40? Please send them to me!
What's that? Zombie thread? Speak up, I can't hear you.
First you had to get lucky to get them off the US Mint website in the first place (thinking about V75 AGE in 2020).