Best Coin Investment to make
Panda4456
Posts: 362 ✭✭✭
I have some thoughts about the best coins to buy and HOLD for a long time to make a decent return on your money.
Ms63-64 common date graded Morgan dollars:
If you can buy these for around $50 that is a great price. You have people who love the design and like uncirculated examples of these coins. They also contain silver so if silver prices went to the moon 🚀 then you could make a killing. You really can’t go wrong with uncirculated examples of Morgan dollars. It’s almost impossible to lose unless you pay too much to begin with.
US-Philippines pesos:
These are an amazing investment if you can buy mint state graded examples of the pesos from 1903-1912. The beginning of this series is the same size of the Morgan dollar and 90% silver. These are highly sought after and extremely rare compared to Morgan dollars. Some of the gem proofs US-Philippines proofs a few years ago were around $2000 now are $8000+. I have some ms61 examples of these coins that I will always hold. Philippines is one of the fastest growing countries and they have an extreme interest in coins. As the wealth grows, the value of their coins will go up. There are many philippines Facebook groups with tens of thousands of users that love these coins.
Chinese silver panda 1983, 1984, 1985
These three years are limited to 10,000 mintages and not all of those survived.everyone loves the panda and China is a growing nation. An 800 dollar coin now should be worth thousands in the years to come in my opinion.
What coins are you buying and holding for the long term?
Comments
I just cherry pick for variety, color, or grade.
Limits the downside.
World is my oyster.
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Not too sure about the MS63/64 common Morgan's. For fun I bought 2 "rolls" of PCGS/NGC slabs about 10 years ago for about the same price you list now. I say fun because I don't view my coins as investments. It's a hobby still for me.
If I had put that all into gold coinage at the time, the value would be higher now.
Stocks are investments. The return in those 10 years on stocks can't be matched by many common coins.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Regarding MS64 common date dollars - talk to those who paid $400 for them 30 years ago. MS63’s have probably performed very poorly, as well. Conclusions such as “You really can’t go wrong” and “It’s almost impossible to lose unless you pay too much to begin with” are almost guaranteed to be wrong.
History strongly disagrees with you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Oh come on Mark, you're no fun! I mean Silver is going to the moon Alice! Coins are the next hottest collectable!! Join Robinhood and get rich quick (or make me a few bucks)!!! THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!!
The best coin investment to make = buy the books. Put in the time. Learn to grade.
Knowledge is priceless
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I agree with the advice of Laura Sperber - PCGS Gold coins with CAC’s. Only a small percentage merit CAC’s. Build a Type Set to make it FUN!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
This!
MS63 Morgans have been horrible performers in recent years and are only likely to go up if silver goes up. But for near-bullion numismatic coins, the first thing that happens when bullion goes up is the numismatic premium compresses. So, if you want to speculate on silver going up, buy silver with as little numismatic premium as possible.
Low grade UNC Morgans are not rare and are not becoming more rare.
I once thought the same as the OP.
Realized if you are going to play silver then do it with junk, rounds, bars etc...
Common slabbed MS63's and such are only good for picking unattributed VAMs.
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I know everyone loves it when I do math. But, since the OP mentioned "decent return" after a "hold".
If you bought an MS63 Morgan $ today for $40 and held it for 20 years, it would have to be worth $106 to get a 5 percent return.
Now, I know, that might seem achievable but lets work backwords. If that MS63 Morgan is worth $40 today and you've been holding it for 20 years, you had to buy it for $15 in 2001 to have achieved a "decent return".
The best way to invest in coins is to buy those you enjoy with money you can afford to loose. Invest in the enjoyment of a wonderful hobby.
If you actually want to invest, stick with proven asset classes like mutual funds, real estate, your own education, and such.
Best Coin Investment to make: Knowledge
Know exactly what you are buying and why.
I have never bought a collector coin with the intention of making a profit. Bullion is for profit. Collector coins are for fun. Makes it easier that way.
I always figure any coin I buy is a poor investment long term compared to more traditional investments. I do think they are a store of some value but who knows? The best course, IMO, is to be prudent about how much you spend and try to spend wisely. Then you enjoy what you bought.
Coins are speculations, not "investments". If you believe, like I do, that coin collecting is a slowing fading hobby then the idea of buying and holding for the long term makes no sense at all. Back about 35-36 years ago I made a similar prediction regarding stamp collecting at a local stamp club meeting. My comments were not well received.
The "why" is easy: I can't help myself.
High grade US type certified by PCGS or NGC, preferably with a CAC designation is what I believe is most likely to appreciate in value or at the very least you will be able to at least break even if you decide to sell in a few years. CC Morgans and CAC Gold
Edit to add: I sold about 3/4 of my collection last year leaving me with just the high grade type coins I listed above. A lot of the common stuff is just moving very well right now. Buying quality is the best way to ensure appreciation or little depreciation
That is the collector in you.
I used to think that way. I changed my thinking.
Put on your dealer hat.
The best coin investment is NOT buying coins.
Us coins based on their performance last 25-30 years not a good investment, especially these bad times. Unless below CDN bid not usually a buyer unless really PQ coin feel can move quickly. I will pay a little more for really nice PQ stuff good potential sell in the green quickly.
One canary in mine for me is 1936 Long Island 50c in MS64. I recall buying a really nice one at the Camden NJ show for $100 (CDN bid was $90) about 25 years ago. Today CDN bid for it is $85. So much for RCI and can cite many more examples.
Mainly I have been focusing on low pop graded world coins and banknotes especially Mexico. These going for absurdly low prices vs US.
A guy recently offered me a stickered 1937-D Oregon in MS 66 at $495 about double CDN bid really nice for the grade. I countered at $270 - CDN is (220 non CAC / 245 Cac) he passed said that was too low. I laughed - “what is bid going up 10% a week? I don’t think so.” Don’t get buried in overpriced expensive US coins. You will be the end user and lose money.
If investing in coins you will need churn your inventory. Coins don’t pay interest or dividends. Basically nowadays a sch c write off. Just sitting there holding it is not recommended. 95% collectors lose money. Many players like deer in the headlights in selling never setup at a show seeing long parade of looky looks (looking but not buying) parading past their table - signifies people coming in bourse room broke. They don’t have anything sell you either....
Picked up in November from wholesaler a really nice PCGS65 1911-D $20 (non CAC) really lustrous PQ Blazer nice clean surfaces no spots for $2500 sold it recently to client in private transaction for $2900 (CPG $2960). So nice stuff does move.
Figure out the variable and fixed costs of the business. An income statement in excel / sch c foremat recommended. Develop a markup equation to cover your costs plus a reasonable commission for you.
Keep your inventory level at plan. Don’t buy if material not moving / can’t buy it right.
Keep your inventory in safe place. The bottom floor of the stilt house (in Vinewood Hills) in GTAO has a man cave / office (vault) on the bottom (3rd floor) which is entirely below ground. Plenty of room for safes, gun locker, desks & computer equipment. The first floor is above ground and front door faces street. Second floor a large master bedroom partially below ground. Top 2 floors have fantastic view of Los Santos (Los Angeles). Comes w 10 car garage. Mine has a pool w deck super view of the city.
My Advice is to invest in coins that will go up in value in the shortest amount of time
Steve
@Cougar said: "If investing in coins you will need churn your inventory. At worst a sch c write off. Just sitting there holding it is not recommended."
While I don't disagree with many of the posts above regarding the past history and prognosis for the future, there's a distinction between dealers and collectors. My interpretation of the OP is he was asking what market segment should collectors buy and hold to increase their chance of investment success ( @Panda4456 - please correct me if i'm wrong). Churning inventory is the right move for dealers, but not for collectors. I agree in many cases I'm wrong, but for those segments that might appreciate going forward, buy and hold is the more cost efficient strategy - NOT churning!
Separately, if I'm being picky, collectors don't file a Schedule C, dealers do. If a collector is reporting profits, they report that on a Schedule D, not C.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Can you be more specific? A list would help.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is my best advice after 20+ years of buying and selling various collectibles as a hobby.
There is a saying... "you make your money when you buy..."
Also, look at attending ANA grading courses and build knowledge.
Second, build a network of trusted dealers.
Thirdly, buy CAC
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Dogecoin
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I would rather have the cash in hand long term than any of your suggestions.
I don't even take any of those things in trade unless I have a wholesaler lined up to instantly pass them onto.
The dealer hat doesn't hold, so it is easy. I buy what I can sell for a profit right now. I don't care if it's ugly or damaged or broken. If it sells, it sells.
Just save your copper cents. 2x face value now.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Well No............But.....It's kinda like the Lottery............you need to pick the numbers that they call to win
Steve
Thing is, I do care what I sell
The best way to make money is get lucky enough to buy the new hot mint product and flip it immediately. Then you can buy coins you like using house money and future worth doesn’t really matter too much.
This is quite true.
The nature of any retail trade is to maximize turnover. So "churn" is key. There is a secondary effect to this: it means buying a lot of widgets rather than a few PQ coins. You simply can't buy PQ coins cheap enough unless you are VERY established (David Lawrence, Legend, etc.) It is very much the opposite of what a collector might want to do.
About 16 years ago, I was between jobs. The laser company I worked for had laid off 60% of their staff, including me. At that point, I had been dealing part-time for 7 years or so. I decided: let's see if I could do it full time.
So, I tried being a dealer for a few months. I did ok. But I quickly realized that the challenge was buying enough material to make a living wage + benefits. Coin margins are low, usually 10% bid/ask spread. So, if you need to make a gross profit of $100k, you need to sell $1 million in coins and, therefore, buy $900k in coins. That is harder to do than you think. You either need a B&M, which drives up the costs and requires you buy even more, or you need to be on the road every week going from show to show trying to buy/sell.
A lot of B&M's actually make their money on high volume really low margin scrap. Bid/ask spread on 1 oz gold eagles is typically $50-$75. So, $1800 gold coin with a 3% margin. Yay!!! But, the advantage is you can do a couple million in bullion per year if you are established. You do 3-5% on 14k, 10k scrap. You get enough ounces, it adds up.
But, in the end, the dealer's strategy is completely counter to a collector's strategy.
You are in a niche with higher margins than most U.S. coins. I'm happy for you and it works for you. But you are not representative of 95% of dealers. Most dealers I know spend the majority of their time buying broken jewelry and 90% silver.
What are you buying that you can sell for a profit right now ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I buy less common dates and try to find eye appealing coins with a story. I worry less and less about making money and my goal now is to try not to lose money. I have no interest in tying up my hobby funds on common date TPG Morgan’s. It would be nice for my collection to have a decent return when I’m ready to sell way off in the future. I think many long term collectors stumble into marginal to decent returns because they are collectors first and have knowledge about what is scarce and uncommon.
If you are paying retail then you can forget about it being an investment. Think like a dealer and buy like a dealer.
I would study Alan Weinberg and Fred Weinberg.
One a major collector and the other a major dealer.
One bought amazing stuff to hold long term and succeeded.
The other traveled the world buying gold, errors, etc to sell... and succeeded.
Most of their stuff wasn't on graysheet.
What is not on graysheet?
Figure that out, buy what you love, become the expert, and in a decade you will be the GTG.
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Unfortunately, when you go to sell, you find that none of the people who are picking unattributed VAMs want to pay for attributed ones.
You might end up with a bunch of junk like a dealer too.
I don’t know if niche markets have higher margin be default or it is required due to fewer covers/transaction. Either way that isn’t his fault. Many dealers move metals because a it helps keep the lights on and it off sets their risk of buying expensive coins to sell to collectors while in competition with the collectors to acquire the coins in the first place.
Then again many dealers have streams of income not tied to coins.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I figured I'd pick up some low grade platinum since the price seems pretty good right now.
MS67
My Saint Set
Yes... I was meaning major $$$ VAMs.
Some obscure ones, but they are a few out there.
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I wasn't blaming him for it. But his experience is not representative of most U.S. coin dealers that I know.
And the fact that many dealers have other revenue streams kind of proves my point.
In that case, one should be looking at raw coins, not slabbed ones which have obviously been more closely scrutinized.
Not necessarily true
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Pretty much everything. I only buy it because I can sell it. It's about price. So, if I can get the ugly coin cheap enough to resell but the pretty coin has no meat left on it, I buy the ugly coin.
So, yes, that means buying U.S. proof sets, bags of wheats, 90% junk, circ silver dollars, unattributed foreign coins. As long as you know where you can go with them and at what price, you buy them and flip them.
You buy piles of crap. You know why? Piles of crap take time and dealers are willing to flip them to you so they don't have to put in the time. If you want to cherry pick an estate, you pay premium. If you buy it all, you pay wholesale. And so you end up with buckets of state quarters that go in the Coinstar and buckets of memorial cents that go in the Coinstar. And, if you are lucky, the occasional gem.
You buy whole estates. That includes souvenir copies of coins, Littleton coins, proof and mint sets, old red books, partially filled blue books missing most keys, and pocket change. And, of course, there are red seals and silver certificates and some foreign currency from someone's trip either for fun or the U.S. Army. That's what most "collections" look like.
A lot of the people on this board have this impression that most collections are organized premium material in slabs. The majority of estate collections are still 100% raw even 35 years into the slabbing era. But a fully slabbed estate is hard to buy. It's easy to evaluate price, consign to auction, etc. Hard to buy a slabbed collection cheaply enough to make any money.
So, since most estates are raw, you have to be able to trust yourself to tell if an S-VDB is real or fake. Because if you buy it and it's fake, you own it. And if you don't buy it and it's real, you don't make any money.
In the end, I always say that to be a good dealer, you have to set aside the collector in yourself. You need to sell the things you prefer to keep. You need to buy the things you would never want to own. And you can't love the coin enough to want to pay a premium to own it.
This being the PCGS message board, I think the posters here are skewed towards slabbed coin collectors and in reality, are not typical of the average coin collector. The coin club I used to belong to had a show-and-tell portion of each meeting where everybody brought something from their collection to talk about and pass around. Slabbed coins were rarely seen.
Popular issue/variety + PCGS + CAC + attractive surfaces/color
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Successful dealers don't end up with a bunch of junk because they don't buy junk. A successful dealer knows the market and he knows how to "read" potential buyers and sellers.
By far W quarters, huge profits...
I don't know too many dealers other than the very high end ones who don't have a room full of junk. I knew one guy who had a BARN full of junk. If you are buying estates, you pretty quickly start accumulating junk.