@Pnies20 said:
You’re not going to get any sort of a deal but they have good customer service. Look at recent auction prices and compare elsewhere before you buy from them. 100% upstanding and reliable, though. No complaints there.
So where would you recommend finding deals?
It depends on how you define a deal. If you just want the cheapest coin with a given number on the slab, just look for ugly coins and you'll likely find plenty. If you want quality coins, DLRC and many others will have them, but they'll be priced accordingly. Familiarize yourself with how a given coin should look and understand how the pricing history correlates to coin quality. The number on the slab and the number constituting the price are very, very poor ways to determine, in a vacuum, whether to buy a coin.
I just mean where can I buy coins at a fair price rather than paying much more than others paid for the same coin recently?
Right. You're missing my point. I suppose if you want a white, common-date MS65 Morgan dollar, you can likely just look for the best price. But if you're looking for a quality piece, especially if it isn't a widget, you can't just look for the "best price" because that doesn't mean anything without context. A great coin can be overpriced even considering how nice it is, but a coin that's inexpensive relative to recent sales may also be of low enough quality that it's overpriced even with the discount. You may find that certain dealers ask strong money for their coins consistently. That could be because they're overpriced, or because they have quality coins that are better than most of the coins that make up the price history. Or it could be some of both. To that end, you need to be able to learn enough about the coins you're interested in to make a determination of value. Just seeing a high or low price relative to trends isn't the right way to look at it if you want quality.
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
For those of you who don't know us, give me a call. Anytime! My direct line is 757-962-7502.
What a great area code!
Ahhh ok I get what you mean.
I guess as a new collector I misunderstood.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
But wouldn’t that evaluation be biased and dependent on the person?
For example two MS 65 Morgan Dollars of the same year and mint mark.
One might be super white and frosty and full of shiny luster.
Another might not be white & frosty at all but have a beautiful natural rainbow toning around the edges.
Some might like the first one and others the second no?
@Pnies20 said:
You’re not going to get any sort of a deal but they have good customer service. Look at recent auction prices and compare elsewhere before you buy from them. 100% upstanding and reliable, though. No complaints there.
So where would you recommend finding deals?
It depends on how you define a deal. If you just want the cheapest coin with a given number on the slab, just look for ugly coins and you'll likely find plenty. If you want quality coins, DLRC and many others will have them, but they'll be priced accordingly. Familiarize yourself with how a given coin should look and understand how the pricing history correlates to coin quality. The number on the slab and the number constituting the price are very, very poor ways to determine, in a vacuum, whether to buy a coin.
Which is not what I do.
Hunt for the coin you want and get it at The price you think is fair. Don’t buy a coin for 20% over retail because it’s being sold buy a leader in the industry. Saying this as a generality not necessarily aimed at DLRC.
The Hunt is the best part. Private treaties between collectors can end up being rewarding in more ways than just your pocket book if you go that route.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
But wouldn’t that evaluation be biased and dependent on the person?
For example two MS 65 Morgan Dollars of the same year and mint mark.
One might be super white and frosty and full of shiny luster.
Another might not be white & frosty at all but have a beautiful natural rainbow toning around the edges.
Some might like the first one and others the second no?
You’re exactly right. You will develop a style of coin you like. It doesnt Matter others think. Do research on auctions, taking into account eye appeal and pay what you think is correct. Give the people that listen to your input and concerns your business.
As noted many times, great company, good reputation. Sign up for their mailing list. Their DLRC end of the week Coins We Love is always interesting and full of enticing gems. The thing I like most about the 2021 DLRC is how John Brush has such an obvious positive passion for numismatics. This is a truly great quality since many others focus mostly on making money. As far as APMEX is concerned, totally reputable for bullion but if you’re building a nice coin or currency collection you are much better off purchasing your items from a quality experienced coin or currency dealer.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
But wouldn’t that evaluation be biased and dependent on the person?
For example two MS 65 Morgan Dollars of the same year and mint mark.
One might be super white and frosty and full of shiny luster.
Another might not be white & frosty at all but have a beautiful natural rainbow toning around the edges.
Some might like the first one and others the second no?
There is preference and what you’ll buy and then there is recognizing eye appeal/quality. The only way to recognize great eye appeal and quality is to look at a lot of coins in hand. It’s about understanding a particular type as well. It’s actually the first step in good grading, IMO.
Knowing what to look for in coins is a great way to know what you should buy. Then your preference plays in. Hope I explained it ok.
@Pnies20 said:
You’re not going to get any sort of a deal but they have good customer service. Look at recent auction prices and compare elsewhere before you buy from them. 100% upstanding and reliable, though. No complaints there.
So where would you recommend finding deals?
It depends on how you define a deal. If you just want the cheapest coin with a given number on the slab, just look for ugly coins and you'll likely find plenty. If you want quality coins, DLRC and many others will have them, but they'll be priced accordingly. Familiarize yourself with how a given coin should look and understand how the pricing history correlates to coin quality. The number on the slab and the number constituting the price are very, very poor ways to determine, in a vacuum, whether to buy a coin.
Which is not what I do.
Hunt for the coin you want and get it at The price you think is fair. Don’t buy a coin for 20% over retail because it’s being sold buy a leader in the industry. Saying this as a generality not necessarily aimed at DLRC.
The Hunt is the best part. Private treaties between collectors can end up being rewarding in more ways than just your pocket book if you go that route.
Of course. You shouldn't pay more just because, but there can be reasons why some dealers appear to be consistently on the high side. It may be that they are hoping for a sucker. It may be that they carry consistently excellent coins.
@Pnies20 said:
You’re not going to get any sort of a deal but they have good customer service. Look at recent auction prices and compare elsewhere before you buy from them. 100% upstanding and reliable, though. No complaints there.
So where would you recommend finding deals?
It depends on how you define a deal. If you just want the cheapest coin with a given number on the slab, just look for ugly coins and you'll likely find plenty. If you want quality coins, DLRC and many others will have them, but they'll be priced accordingly. Familiarize yourself with how a given coin should look and understand how the pricing history correlates to coin quality. The number on the slab and the number constituting the price are very, very poor ways to determine, in a vacuum, whether to buy a coin.
I just mean where can I buy coins at a fair price rather than paying much more than others paid for the same coin recently?
Right. You're missing my point. I suppose if you want a white, common-date MS65 Morgan dollar, you can likely just look for the best price. But if you're looking for a quality piece, especially if it isn't a widget, you can't just look for the "best price" because that doesn't mean anything without context. A great coin can be overpriced even considering how nice it is, but a coin that's inexpensive relative to recent sales may also be of low enough quality that it's overpriced even with the discount. You may find that certain dealers ask strong money for their coins consistently. That could be because they're overpriced, or because they have quality coins that are better than most of the coins that make up the price history. Or it could be some of both. To that end, you need to be able to learn enough about the coins you're interested in to make a determination of value. Just seeing a high or low price relative to trends isn't the right way to look at it if you want quality.
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
For those of you who don't know us, give me a call. Anytime! My direct line is 757-962-7502.
What a great area code!
Ahhh ok I get what you mean.
I guess as a new collector I misunderstood.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Correct. In all grades, but particularly below the higher gem grades, every coin is a compromise. Does that MS64 Morgan dollar have great lustre and a few more marks, or slightly subdued lustre and cleaner surfaces? More light chatter or less chatter, but one mark that's a bit more prominent and distracting? While many of these coins are going to look pretty similar, even in a common series, you can find better examples. For Morgan dollars, maybe it's finding one with slightly reflective fields or frosty devices, rather than just plain, lustrous silver throughout. It doesn't have to be prooflike or the next grade up, but it might be a bit closer to either of those, and as a result a more appealing coin. Or look for an original skin and frosty lustre rather than a dipped, totally white coin.
Your point about toning is well taken, and to that end, it's preference. If you don't want a toned coin, that doesn't mean that all untoned coins are the same. Here's an example. In full disclosure, I bought it because of the toning on the reverse. But take the obverse. The devices are frosty, the lustre is excellent. The golden toning is a tad stronger than an ideal illustration, but the coin has really nice original surfaces, rather than being dipped (even the "white" parts aren't stripped white--that's the skin you're seeing). You could find one with a very light skin that isn't as golden, but still gives a really nice effect.
The real key here is to look at lots of coins. Check out the sales at Heritage and try to understand why some coins sold for more or less than others. If you can't figure it out, ask. Sometimes it's a fluke. Oftentimes there's a reason. This will take a lot of time, and you may make mistakes along the way. But if you look at a lot of coins, you'll be more likely to understand the coins you're looking to buy and make a good purchase, rather than jumping too early and getting a lesser coin you won't like as much when you know more down the line.
I can say this: I've regretted many more purchases where I thought I got a great price than I have coins where I knowingly paid very strong money. In the latter cases, I paid strong money because I knew the coin was worth it. In the former, I was excited to get a perceived deal, and later learned the price was what it was for a reason, and perhaps even at that lower price, it was still priced too high.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
But wouldn’t that evaluation be biased and dependent on the person?
For example two MS 65 Morgan Dollars of the same year and mint mark.
One might be super white and frosty and full of shiny luster.
Another might not be white & frosty at all but have a beautiful natural rainbow toning around the edges.
Some might like the first one and others the second no?
Which is why "sight seen" coins generally sell much higher than "sight unseen". Just because that Morgan grades 65 doesn't mean that you'll like it and (later) that it fits into your collection.
@Tom147 said:
Late to the thread but yes they are. One of the top sites IMO. Just take into account the fee's involved. This is not unique to DLRC. Heritage, GC etc. all have buyers premium, taxes, shipping etc. added on to your final price. Take these into account when bidding. Some can add an additional 25% or more to your bid.
Actually, we don't charge buyer's fees! Nor shipping...nor imaging fees. Our goal is to not make the process more complicated than it already is?
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
You can also ask John Brush @JBatDavidLawrence who posts here. He's President and Owner of David Lawrence.
Oh ok thanks!
I’m just trying to be careful because I know there are a lot of sites selling fake stuff from China.
Like all those websites that will happily sell an MS 1804 Bust Dollar for $19.99.
Does the DLRC website have anything like that? No. They list a large variety of high-quality TPG-certified coins. They have a very polished website. There's no resemblance to the fake sites you are worried about. Further, it doesn't take much digging to find out that a company like DLRC is legit. For example, you could have easily done a Forum search for "David Lawrence Rare Coins" and seen many postings from customers, etc.:
You're thinking about buying $1,000+ coins. Am I to understand that you never look at PCGS CoinFacts to research the market value of these coins? DLRC auctions are tracked in CoinFacts, along with the other major houses like Heritage, Stacks' Bowers, Great Collections, etc. That should tell you something.
People on the forum are generally nice and polite, especially with new people. That's nice, but perhaps they are not telling you everything you need to hear.
You're not going to get scammed buying from DLRC, but are you ready to jump in and start buying $1,000 coins? You're new to the hobby and you seem rather naive.
Your best defense against being scammed is to think for yourself. You started this thread by asking a question that essentially asked other people to think for you. Think about it.
@Tom147 said:
Late to the thread but yes they are. One of the top sites IMO. Just take into account the fee's involved. This is not unique to DLRC. Heritage, GC etc. all have buyers premium, taxes, shipping etc. added on to your final price. Take these into account when bidding. Some can add an additional 25% or more to your bid.
Actually, we don't charge buyer's fees! Nor shipping...nor imaging fees. Our goal is to not make the process more complicated than it already is?
This is what I had thought, but it is good to have Mr. Brush confirm.
You can also ask John Brush @JBatDavidLawrence who posts here. He's President and Owner of David Lawrence.
Oh ok thanks!
I’m just trying to be careful because I know there are a lot of sites selling fake stuff from China.
Like all those websites that will happily sell an MS 1804 Bust Dollar for $19.99.
Does the DLRC website have anything like that? No. They list a large variety of high-quality TPG-certified coins. They have a very polished website. There's no resemblance to the fake sites you are worried about. Further, it doesn't take much digging to find out that a company like DLRC is legit. For example, you could have easily done a Forum search for "David Lawrence Rare Coins" and seen many postings from customers, etc.:
You're thinking about buying $1,000+ coins. Am I to understand that you never look at PCGS CoinFacts to research the market value of these coins? DLRC auctions are tracked in CoinFacts, along with the other major houses like Heritage, Stacks' Bowers, Great Collections, etc. That should tell you something.
People on the forum are generally nice and polite, especially with new people. That's nice, but perhaps they are not telling you everything you need to hear.
You're not going to get scammed buying from DLRC, but are you ready to jump in and start buying $1,000 coins? You're new to the hobby and you seem rather naive.
Your best defense against being scammed is to think for yourself. You started this thread by asking a question that essentially asked other people to think for you. Think about it.
Thanks @IkesT, you said in a civil way what I would have said in a much less positive way, especially the last sentence.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
You can also ask John Brush @JBatDavidLawrence who posts here. He's President and Owner of David Lawrence.
Oh ok thanks!
I’m just trying to be careful because I know there are a lot of sites selling fake stuff from China.
Like all those websites that will happily sell an MS 1804 Bust Dollar for $19.99.
Does the DLRC website have anything like that? No. They list a large variety of high-quality TPG-certified coins. They have a very polished website. There's no resemblance to the fake sites you are worried about. Further, it doesn't take much digging to find out that a company like DLRC is legit. For example, you could have easily done a Forum search for "David Lawrence Rare Coins" and seen many postings from customers, etc.:
You're thinking about buying $1,000+ coins. Am I to understand that you never look at PCGS CoinFacts to research the market value of these coins? DLRC auctions are tracked in CoinFacts, along with the other major houses like Heritage, Stacks' Bowers, Great Collections, etc. That should tell you something.
People on the forum are generally nice and polite, especially with new people. That's nice, but perhaps they are not telling you everything you need to hear.
You're not going to get scammed buying from DLRC, but are you ready to jump in and start buying $1,000 coins? You're new to the hobby and you seem rather naive.
Your best defense against being scammed is to think for yourself. You started this thread by asking a question that essentially asked other people to think for you. Think about it.
Just because a site isn’t selling a coin significantly under market value does NOT mean it’s legitimate.
Heck there are some scammers out there who sell fakes for over what they’re worth.
I wanted to hear from people with experience with DLRC and I couldn’t find any reviews on their website itself so I asked here.
However had I known I could do a forum search I would’ve done that for sure.
I’ve already bought $1,000 coins.
I have a $10 Indian Head Gold Eagle and a 1799 Draped Bust $1. Both were over $1,000.
@oldUScoins said:
I’ve had great experiences with DLRC. Use the make an offer feature. All my offers but one have been accepted over the past few years.
@MKUltra24 said:
I was on Facebook and saw one of their advertisements so I went to check out their website and saw they had tons of coins for sale & auction.
Does anyone know if DLRC is a legitimate site to buy from?
@JBatDavidLawrence said:
For those of you who wrote nice comments, thank you!
For those of you who don't know us, give me a call. Anytime! My direct line is 757-962-7502.
Or email me at john@davidlawrence.com. I'll reply outside of business hours most of the time.
For those of you who didn't write nice things, give me a call as well. I'd like to see what we can do to make it better for you next time or to see if we can get to the bottom of the issue.
Just wanted to say I wasn’t trying to doubt your reputation or anything> I just didn’t know anything and wanted to make sure it was safe before spending all that money.
Good thing you asked. Do not be embarrassed to ask.
You can also ask John Brush @JBatDavidLawrence who posts here. He's President and Owner of David Lawrence.
Oh ok thanks!
I’m just trying to be careful because I know there are a lot of sites selling fake stuff from China.
Like all those websites that will happily sell an MS 1804 Bust Dollar for $19.99.
Does the DLRC website have anything like that? No. They list a large variety of high-quality TPG-certified coins. They have a very polished website. There's no resemblance to the fake sites you are worried about. Further, it doesn't take much digging to find out that a company like DLRC is legit. For example, you could have easily done a Forum search for "David Lawrence Rare Coins" and seen many postings from customers, etc.:
You're thinking about buying $1,000+ coins. Am I to understand that you never look at PCGS CoinFacts to research the market value of these coins? DLRC auctions are tracked in CoinFacts, along with the other major houses like Heritage, Stacks' Bowers, Great Collections, etc. That should tell you something.
People on the forum are generally nice and polite, especially with new people. That's nice, but perhaps they are not telling you everything you need to hear.
You're not going to get scammed buying from DLRC, but are you ready to jump in and start buying $1,000 coins? You're new to the hobby and you seem rather naive.
Your best defense against being scammed is to think for yourself. You started this thread by asking a question that essentially asked other people to think for you. Think about it.
Just because a site isn’t selling a coin significantly under market value does NOT mean it’s legitimate.
Heck there are some scammers out there who sell fakes for over what they’re worth.
I wanted to hear from people with experience with DLRC and I couldn’t find any reviews on their website itself so I asked here.
I don't know of any coin dealers that have reviews on their website (I suppose APMEX has reviews of bullion products, but that's a little bit different). And let's be honest for a second. If reviews saying "these guys are great!" is all it took to prove a site is legit, wouldn't all the scammers just add their own fake reviews to their websites?
Some of my nicest coins have come from DLRC. Be sure to check the BST section here as well, lots of good and honest forum members sell from time to time.
I have bought numerous coins from DLRC and their service is top-notch. There are multiple ways to buy from them including making offers and weekly auctions. You would be well-served to add them to your short list of reputable dealers.
However had I known I could do a forum search I would’ve done that for sure.
I’ve already bought $1,000 coins.
I have a $10 Indian Head Gold Eagle and a 1799 Draped Bust $1. Both were over $1,000.
As evidenced by what you learned about your DB $, you aren’t following the maxim “buy what you understand”. Playing in the $1000 + segment and then expressing surprise about what you bought is a hard way to learn. I don’t write this to dim your enthusiasm, but you could be headed for some expensive mistakes.
@MKUltra24 said:
I was on Facebook and saw one of their advertisements so I went to check out their website and saw they had tons of coins for sale & auction.
Does anyone know if DLRC is a legitimate site to buy from?
Just did another deal with John over the weekend that we finished up today. Great inventory, excellent service and a solid company to work with. John is also very personable in my experience.
Is the auction data listed on the website from coins only sold on DLRC? I used this coin because it was one the OP said he wanted to buy.
Yes, we don't have the rights to list auction results from other venues.
That being said, all of the major companies list their auction prices with our gracious hosts here: https://pcgs.com/auctionprices
We actually sell a large number of coins directly as well, but those results are private and not listed on our website.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
I can say this: I've regretted many more purchases where I thought I got a great price than I have coins where I knowingly paid very strong money. In the latter cases, I paid strong money because I knew the coin was worth it. In the former, I was excited to get a perceived deal, and later learned the price was what it was for a reason, and perhaps even at that lower price, it was still priced too high.
@Pnies20 said:
You’re not going to get any sort of a deal but they have good customer service. Look at recent auction prices and compare elsewhere before you buy from them. 100% upstanding and reliable, though. No complaints there.
So where would you recommend finding deals?
It depends on how you define a deal. If you just want the cheapest coin with a given number on the slab, just look for ugly coins and you'll likely find plenty. If you want quality coins, DLRC and many others will have them, but they'll be priced accordingly. Familiarize yourself with how a given coin should look and understand how the pricing history correlates to coin quality. The number on the slab and the number constituting the price are very, very poor ways to determine, in a vacuum, whether to buy a coin.
I just mean where can I buy coins at a fair price rather than paying much more than others paid for the same coin recently?
@MKUltra24 said:
I was on Facebook and saw one of their advertisements so I went to check out their website and saw they had tons of coins for sale & auction.
Does anyone know if DLRC is a legitimate site to buy from?
I've bought a few coins from DLRC over the years. All were "make an offer" and my discounted (by like 5-10%) offers were accepted. All of the coins were nice for the grade I thought, and the images accurately reflected the coins in hand. This 1924-S Lincoln cent PCGS MS64BN I bought from them last year:
John Feigenbaum is the son of DLRC founder David Feigenbaum. John ran DLRC for quite some time (I think 15- 20 years) and now it is my understanding he bought CDN and publishes their pricing newsletters, including the Greysheet.
Ask any of the over 600 dealers who attend major coins shows, such as Long Beach Expo, they will know John.
However had I known I could do a forum search I would’ve done that for sure.
I’ve already bought $1,000 coins.
I have a $10 Indian Head Gold Eagle and a 1799 Draped Bust $1. Both were over $1,000.
As evidenced by what you learned about your DB $, you aren’t following the maxim “buy what you understand”. Playing in the $1000 + segment and then expressing surprise about what you bought is a hard way to learn. I don’t write this to dim your enthusiasm, but you could be headed for some expensive mistakes.
When did I “express surprise about what (I) bought”?
I’ve been very happy with all of the coin purchases I ever made.
Except for the 1998 Proof American Silver Eagle I paid $70 when I could’ve easily got it cheaper than that.
@MKUltra24 said:
I was on Facebook and saw one of their advertisements so I went to check out their website and saw they had tons of coins for sale & auction.
Does anyone know if DLRC is a legitimate site to buy from?
@MKUltra24 said:
I was on Facebook and saw one of their advertisements so I went to check out their website and saw they had tons of coins for sale & auction.
Does anyone know if DLRC is a legitimate site to buy from?
Comments
I have done business with them and have been completely satisfied.
Ahhh ok I get what you mean.
I guess as a new collector I misunderstood.
I’m so used to going by grade and it sounds like you’re saying some coins are much nicer than others of the same type & grade and will cost more.
So looking for say the cheapest MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollar wouldn’t be possible since some MS64 1884 CC Morgan Dollars look much nicer than others.
Yes, you’ll definitely find that there are coins that barely make the grade, are solid for the grade, are premium for the grade, and occasionally might go up a grade on a good day/circumstances. The hardest thing to learn, IMO, is evaluating eye appeal. On the one side it’s easy to know what looks good, but on the other side it’s hard to know if that really looks good until you’ve seen enough to really know what looks good.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
But wouldn’t that evaluation be biased and dependent on the person?
For example two MS 65 Morgan Dollars of the same year and mint mark.
One might be super white and frosty and full of shiny luster.
Another might not be white & frosty at all but have a beautiful natural rainbow toning around the edges.
Some might like the first one and others the second no?
Which is not what I do.
Hunt for the coin you want and get it at The price you think is fair. Don’t buy a coin for 20% over retail because it’s being sold buy a leader in the industry. Saying this as a generality not necessarily aimed at DLRC.
The Hunt is the best part. Private treaties between collectors can end up being rewarding in more ways than just your pocket book if you go that route.
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.
You’re exactly right. You will develop a style of coin you like. It doesnt Matter others think. Do research on auctions, taking into account eye appeal and pay what you think is correct. Give the people that listen to your input and concerns your business.
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.
As noted many times, great company, good reputation. Sign up for their mailing list. Their DLRC end of the week Coins We Love is always interesting and full of enticing gems. The thing I like most about the 2021 DLRC is how John Brush has such an obvious positive passion for numismatics. This is a truly great quality since many others focus mostly on making money. As far as APMEX is concerned, totally reputable for bullion but if you’re building a nice coin or currency collection you are much better off purchasing your items from a quality experienced coin or currency dealer.
There is preference and what you’ll buy and then there is recognizing eye appeal/quality. The only way to recognize great eye appeal and quality is to look at a lot of coins in hand. It’s about understanding a particular type as well. It’s actually the first step in good grading, IMO.
Knowing what to look for in coins is a great way to know what you should buy. Then your preference plays in. Hope I explained it ok.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Of course. You shouldn't pay more just because, but there can be reasons why some dealers appear to be consistently on the high side. It may be that they are hoping for a sucker. It may be that they carry consistently excellent coins.
Correct. In all grades, but particularly below the higher gem grades, every coin is a compromise. Does that MS64 Morgan dollar have great lustre and a few more marks, or slightly subdued lustre and cleaner surfaces? More light chatter or less chatter, but one mark that's a bit more prominent and distracting? While many of these coins are going to look pretty similar, even in a common series, you can find better examples. For Morgan dollars, maybe it's finding one with slightly reflective fields or frosty devices, rather than just plain, lustrous silver throughout. It doesn't have to be prooflike or the next grade up, but it might be a bit closer to either of those, and as a result a more appealing coin. Or look for an original skin and frosty lustre rather than a dipped, totally white coin.
Your point about toning is well taken, and to that end, it's preference. If you don't want a toned coin, that doesn't mean that all untoned coins are the same. Here's an example. In full disclosure, I bought it because of the toning on the reverse. But take the obverse. The devices are frosty, the lustre is excellent. The golden toning is a tad stronger than an ideal illustration, but the coin has really nice original surfaces, rather than being dipped (even the "white" parts aren't stripped white--that's the skin you're seeing). You could find one with a very light skin that isn't as golden, but still gives a really nice effect.
The real key here is to look at lots of coins. Check out the sales at Heritage and try to understand why some coins sold for more or less than others. If you can't figure it out, ask. Sometimes it's a fluke. Oftentimes there's a reason. This will take a lot of time, and you may make mistakes along the way. But if you look at a lot of coins, you'll be more likely to understand the coins you're looking to buy and make a good purchase, rather than jumping too early and getting a lesser coin you won't like as much when you know more down the line.
I can say this: I've regretted many more purchases where I thought I got a great price than I have coins where I knowingly paid very strong money. In the latter cases, I paid strong money because I knew the coin was worth it. In the former, I was excited to get a perceived deal, and later learned the price was what it was for a reason, and perhaps even at that lower price, it was still priced too high.
Which is why "sight seen" coins generally sell much higher than "sight unseen". Just because that Morgan grades 65 doesn't mean that you'll like it and (later) that it fits into your collection.
Actually, we don't charge buyer's fees! Nor shipping...nor imaging fees. Our goal is to not make the process more complicated than it already is?
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
John, good to know this. What I like about this forum. Always learning. Thank you sir.
There are many forumites who have posted complimentary comments about @JBatDavidLawrence DLRC, and you can count me among them. They also buy coins!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
Yes, done many deals with them.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Bought some $10 gold Indians from them years ago via their ebay auctions. No complaints.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Does the DLRC website have anything like that? No. They list a large variety of high-quality TPG-certified coins. They have a very polished website. There's no resemblance to the fake sites you are worried about. Further, it doesn't take much digging to find out that a company like DLRC is legit. For example, you could have easily done a Forum search for "David Lawrence Rare Coins" and seen many postings from customers, etc.:
https://forums.collectors.com/search?Search=david+lawrence+rare+coins
You're thinking about buying $1,000+ coins. Am I to understand that you never look at PCGS CoinFacts to research the market value of these coins? DLRC auctions are tracked in CoinFacts, along with the other major houses like Heritage, Stacks' Bowers, Great Collections, etc. That should tell you something.
People on the forum are generally nice and polite, especially with new people. That's nice, but perhaps they are not telling you everything you need to hear.
You're not going to get scammed buying from DLRC, but are you ready to jump in and start buying $1,000 coins? You're new to the hobby and you seem rather naive.
Your best defense against being scammed is to think for yourself. You started this thread by asking a question that essentially asked other people to think for you. Think about it.
This is what I had thought, but it is good to have Mr. Brush confirm.
Can't get much more legit than DLRC. Just as good as Heritage Auctions.
I’ve had great experiences with DLRC. Use the make an offer feature. All my offers but one have been accepted over the past few years.
@IkesT said:
Thanks @IkesT, you said in a civil way what I would have said in a much less positive way, especially the last sentence.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Back to DLRC: this thread ought to be a testimony to how quality and customer service pays off in the long run.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Just because a site isn’t selling a coin significantly under market value does NOT mean it’s legitimate.
Heck there are some scammers out there who sell fakes for over what they’re worth.
I wanted to hear from people with experience with DLRC and I couldn’t find any reviews on their website itself so I asked here.
However had I known I could do a forum search I would’ve done that for sure.
I’ve already bought $1,000 coins.
I have a $10 Indian Head Gold Eagle and a 1799 Draped Bust $1. Both were over $1,000.
Perhaps your offers are too high???
I purchased this from them
@JBatDavidLawrence
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I could not have said THAT better
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Good thing you asked. Do not be embarrassed to ask.
Recommended!
Yes
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
I don't know of any coin dealers that have reviews on their website (I suppose APMEX has reviews of bullion products, but that's a little bit different). And let's be honest for a second. If reviews saying "these guys are great!" is all it took to prove a site is legit, wouldn't all the scammers just add their own fake reviews to their websites?
Some of my nicest coins have come from DLRC. Be sure to check the BST section here as well, lots of good and honest forum members sell from time to time.
This thread is free advertising. I just went to DLRC and checked out a really nice looking Classic Head quarter Eagle.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I have bought numerous coins from DLRC and their service is top-notch. There are multiple ways to buy from them including making offers and weekly auctions. You would be well-served to add them to your short list of reputable dealers.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
As evidenced by what you learned about your DB $, you aren’t following the maxim “buy what you understand”. Playing in the $1000 + segment and then expressing surprise about what you bought is a hard way to learn. I don’t write this to dim your enthusiasm, but you could be headed for some expensive mistakes.
https://www.davidlawrence.com/rare-coin/2189399
Question for @JBatDavidLawrence
Is the auction data listed on the website from coins only sold on DLRC? I used this coin because it was one the OP said he wanted to buy.
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.
I've purchased coins from them for 20 years, and have been pleased with the quality and service. Not a lot of bargains, but fair retail prices.
I can tell you that it is, in fact, DLRC auction data only.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That’s what I thought. Just making sure. Thanks.
BHNC #248 … 121 and counting.
yes
Late to the party, but another resounding YES.
Just did another deal with John over the weekend that we finished up today. Great inventory, excellent service and a solid company to work with. John is also very personable in my experience.
My last two coins from them are posted here;
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1050352/small-bust-larger-bust-pretty-busts#latest
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I was just thinking the same thing as I’m pondering their ‘82-CC Morgan in a PCGS MS67 holder.
Yes, I sent this one to CAC after I bought it from DLRC:
Yes, we don't have the rights to list auction results from other venues.
That being said, all of the major companies list their auction prices with our gracious hosts here: https://pcgs.com/auctionprices
We actually sell a large number of coins directly as well, but those results are private and not listed on our website.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@airplanenut
This! (edited to attribute the quote)
Yes they are legit but beware: THEIR PHOTOS ARE NOT ACCURATE!!
Major Auctions may be the answer. Also compare same or similar coins listed on competitors websites. NEN has an easy to use database for example.
As legit as they come.
I've bought a few coins from DLRC over the years. All were "make an offer" and my discounted (by like 5-10%) offers were accepted. All of the coins were nice for the grade I thought, and the images accurately reflected the coins in hand. This 1924-S Lincoln cent PCGS MS64BN I bought from them last year:
John Feigenbaum is the son of DLRC founder David Feigenbaum. John ran DLRC for quite some time (I think 15- 20 years) and now it is my understanding he bought CDN and publishes their pricing newsletters, including the Greysheet.
Ask any of the over 600 dealers who attend major coins shows, such as Long Beach Expo, they will know John.
When did I “express surprise about what (I) bought”?
I’ve been very happy with all of the coin purchases I ever made.
Except for the 1998 Proof American Silver Eagle I paid $70 when I could’ve easily got it cheaper than that.
And it completed
what I think is a 'balanced' set
PS I only have 49 graded coins in my collection
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Dang that 1652 Shilling is awesome!!
May I ask what you paid for it?
I’d like to get one for myself (maybe a lower grade like VF20-XF) but I’m not sure if it’s way outside my financial ball park or not.