Legal matters like this can feel like torture; then you get through it, heal, and life gets better again. Due to the show shutdowns I am sure many dealers are suffering financially.
@jmlanzaf said:
This thread is an interesting experiment in tribal loyalty.
Perhaps, or it is one where some hobbyists have sympathy for someone who owns up to their failings. Who here hasn't failed in their lifetimes?
Tribal loyalty goes both ways. We had a forum member who took his own life a while back. There wasn't a lot of tribal loyalty there but the situation was different.
@jmlanzaf said:
This thread is an interesting experiment in tribal loyalty.
Perhaps, or it is one where some hobbyists have sympathy for someone who owns up to their failings. Who here hasn't failed in their lifetimes?
I agree, more or less. But I just wonder what our response would be if the other party had posted here. There is a tendency to rally to the tribe. When someone posts that they didn't get a coin they received, we scream "scammer" and side with the buyer. When someone posts that their buyer is complaining that they didn't get the coin that we shipped, we block the buyer for being a nuisance and blame the post office.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works out for both parties in this instance. This is a private matter between two parties and I have no reason to wish ill on either of them. I also don't believe there is any broader societal concern.
@jmlanzaf said:
This thread is an interesting experiment in tribal loyalty.
Perhaps, or it is one where some hobbyists have sympathy for someone who owns up to their failings. Who here hasn't failed in their lifetimes?
I agree, more or less. But I just wonder what our response would be if the other party had posted here. There is a tendency to rally to the tribe. When someone posts that they didn't get a coin they received, we scream "scammer" and side with the buyer. When someone posts that their buyer is complaining that they didn't get the coin that we shipped, we block the buyer for being a nuisance and blame the post office.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works out for both parties in this instance. This is a private matter between two parties and I have no reason to wish ill on either of them. I also don't believe there is any broader societal concern.
Without more information (and I'm not asking nor do I think it should necessarily be posted), it seems like an unfortunate business situation. I don't have enough information on who is right vs. wrong, but it's unfortunate if it impacts Rick's business as an ongoing concern.
@EagleEye said:
Hi all,
I am being sued. I had an investor in my business and the contract with him stipulated that I maintain the amount invested in my business in inventory. I failed to do so. So I am concentrated on getting though this very difficult situation. Initially, I thought I should shut everything down to preserve everything as it was when I was served. This was prior to legal counsel. They are not trying to shut me down, only recover the investment, which may be the same thing. We'll see. I still have my intellectual property, like Photo Seal and my books. Anyone who has gone though something like this knows the pain involved. I ask for your prayers and well-wishes.
Wish you well Rick! I've purchased a couple of your "Photo Seal" coins and sent a coin to you for the Photo Seal sticker which is equivalent to a CAC sticker.
This is the coin that earned your sticker. Two images by Mark Goodman of the same coin:
@jmlanzaf said:
This thread is an interesting experiment in tribal loyalty.
I guess no one likes to see someone's business shut down especially one as well recognized as Ricks no matter what the issue . Certainly there is another side to this story.
I hope both sides work it out and lives to fight another day. Ricks livelihood is at stake and he is someone we know so it's natural people rally around him with well wishes
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Rick, I hope this resolves equitably for you and the other party.
I, as a dealer, learn a great deal from this type of thread.
Lesson learned ... Do NOT let anyone invest in my business.
Another lesson that I have recently learned personally is not to take consignments.
I'm not sure that's the lesson. I mean, it was for you. I would take loans, if necessary, and consignments but you need really well written agreements and stick to them.
I don't know what your consignment problem was, but most issues ive seen are when expectations aren't met but not clearly articulated up front...in writing.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Rick, I hope this resolves equitably for you and the other party.
I, as a dealer, learn a great deal from this type of thread.
Lesson learned ... Do NOT let anyone invest in my business.
Another lesson that I have recently learned personally is not to take consignments.
I'm not sure that's the lesson. I mean, it was for you. I would take loans, if necessary, and consignments but you need really well written agreements and stick to them.
I don't know what your consignment problem was, but most issues ive seen are when expectations aren't met but not clearly articulated up front...in writing.
The worst part of the experience was the constant phone calls from the consigner wanting to micromanage my business. It was kinda like I had a boss.
I gave the client an incredibly good deal and then he kept wanting to change the agreement.
Not worth the hassle.
Next time, I will offer to buy outright.
A loan may come from any source, ie a bank, a credit card, etc.
I am afraid that an investor might want to micromanage the business which is unacceptable.
Best of luck to you. You are one of the good guys in the business.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@coinnut said:
Sorry to hear of this. Best of luck Rick.
Wise words from ErrorsOnCoins
I agree. Not that consignments can’t be mutually beneficial but it takes the right kind of dealer and consigner. The nick picking, milk every penny out of their coins type is going to be hard to live with except a cash outright transaction. Other wise consignments should be viewed as marketing opportunities. I will eBay cycle them X times, i will show cycle them X times....and if I execute a sale between ($this and this$) your portion is this. After said cycles they will be returned by X date with all monies closed status.
On the other side; “Let me hold them and see what I can do” is lazy and a recipe for disappointment all around.
@coinnut said:
Sorry to hear of this. Best of luck Rick.
Wise words from ErrorsOnCoins
I agree. Not that consignments can’t be mutually beneficial but it takes the right kind of dealer and consigner. The nick picking, milk every penny out of their coins type is going to be hard to live with except a cash outright transaction. Other wise consignments should be viewed as marketing opportunities. I will eBay cycle them X times, i will show cycle them X times....and if I execute a sale between ($this and this$) your portion is this. After said cycles they will be returned by X date with all monies closed status.
On the other side; “Let me hold them and see what I can do” is lazy and a recipe for disappointment all around.
Yes, exactly this.
When I have a clear upfront agreement (in writing), I've never had a problem. Something akin to I will run it in this forum at this price in this mode for this long and take this percentage.
Whenever it is a "sell this and see what you can get", there is often a problem with expectations not being met, etc.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Rick, I hope this resolves equitably for you and the other party.
I, as a dealer, learn a great deal from this type of thread.
Lesson learned ... Do NOT let anyone invest in my business.
Another lesson that I have recently learned personally is not to take consignments.
I'm not sure that's the lesson. I mean, it was for you. I would take loans, if necessary, and consignments but you need really well written agreements and stick to them.
I don't know what your consignment problem was, but most issues ive seen are when expectations aren't met but not clearly articulated up front...in writing.
The worst part of the experience was the constant phone calls from the consigner wanting to micromanage my business. It was kinda like I had a boss.
I gave the client an incredibly good deal and then he kept wanting to change the agreement.
Not worth the hassle.
Next time, I will offer to buy outright.
A loan may come from any source, ie a bank, a credit card, etc.
I am afraid that an investor might want to micromanage the business which is unacceptable.
Again, you can take a private loan but it needs to be clear that your "investor" is not a partner. You get the money and agree to whatever terms. I've done numerous deals like that where I loaned people money.
Comments
Sorry to hear about this. Hang in there Rick!
This thread is an interesting experiment in tribal loyalty.
@EagleEye.... Difficult situation and usually not quickly resolved. Best of luck. Cheers, RickO
Sorry Rick. I hope for a good outcome.
Legal matters like this can feel like torture; then you get through it, heal, and life gets better again. Due to the show shutdowns I am sure many dealers are suffering financially.
Perhaps, or it is one where some hobbyists have sympathy for someone who owns up to their failings. Who here hasn't failed in their lifetimes?
Tribal loyalty goes both ways. We had a forum member who took his own life a while back. There wasn't a lot of tribal loyalty there but the situation was different.
Good luck Rick @EagleEye! Glad your website is up again. You've built up a great business and following with the Seal. Hope it all works out.
Is it possible to get another investor? If so, you could payout the current investor and replenish the funds.
Sorry to hear, Rick. Best wishes.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Hang in there Rick.......
I agree, more or less. But I just wonder what our response would be if the other party had posted here. There is a tendency to rally to the tribe. When someone posts that they didn't get a coin they received, we scream "scammer" and side with the buyer. When someone posts that their buyer is complaining that they didn't get the coin that we shipped, we block the buyer for being a nuisance and blame the post office.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works out for both parties in this instance. This is a private matter between two parties and I have no reason to wish ill on either of them. I also don't believe there is any broader societal concern.
Hi Rick... you will swim through this. ><>
You got the Eye.
Without more information (and I'm not asking nor do I think it should necessarily be posted), it seems like an unfortunate business situation. I don't have enough information on who is right vs. wrong, but it's unfortunate if it impacts Rick's business as an ongoing concern.
Hope it works out for both parties.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
i think we're gonna need a bigger investor.
someone who can't run fast
Wish you well Rick! I've purchased a couple of your "Photo Seal" coins and sent a coin to you for the Photo Seal sticker which is equivalent to a CAC sticker.
This is the coin that earned your sticker. Two images by Mark Goodman of the same coin:
This image is by BlueCC:
I guess no one likes to see someone's business shut down especially one as well recognized as Ricks no matter what the issue . Certainly there is another side to this story.
I hope both sides work it out and lives to fight another day. Ricks livelihood is at stake and he is someone we know so it's natural people rally around him with well wishes
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Rick, I hope this resolves equitably for you and the other party.
I, as a dealer, learn a great deal from this type of thread.
Lesson learned ... Do NOT let anyone invest in my business.
Another lesson that I have recently learned personally is not to take consignments.
I'm not sure that's the lesson. I mean, it was for you. I would take loans, if necessary, and consignments but you need really well written agreements and stick to them.
I don't know what your consignment problem was, but most issues ive seen are when expectations aren't met but not clearly articulated up front...in writing.
good luck rick all the best, im routing for ya
The worst part of the experience was the constant phone calls from the consigner wanting to micromanage my business. It was kinda like I had a boss.
I gave the client an incredibly good deal and then he kept wanting to change the agreement.
Not worth the hassle.
Next time, I will offer to buy outright.
A loan may come from any source, ie a bank, a credit card, etc.
I am afraid that an investor might want to micromanage the business which is unacceptable.
Sorry to hear of this. Best of luck Rick.
Wise words from ErrorsOnCoins
Best of luck to you. You are one of the good guys in the business.
I agree. Not that consignments can’t be mutually beneficial but it takes the right kind of dealer and consigner. The nick picking, milk every penny out of their coins type is going to be hard to live with except a cash outright transaction. Other wise consignments should be viewed as marketing opportunities. I will eBay cycle them X times, i will show cycle them X times....and if I execute a sale between ($this and this$) your portion is this. After said cycles they will be returned by X date with all monies closed status.
On the other side; “Let me hold them and see what I can do” is lazy and a recipe for disappointment all around.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Yes, exactly this.
When I have a clear upfront agreement (in writing), I've never had a problem. Something akin to I will run it in this forum at this price in this mode for this long and take this percentage.
Whenever it is a "sell this and see what you can get", there is often a problem with expectations not being met, etc.
Again, you can take a private loan but it needs to be clear that your "investor" is not a partner. You get the money and agree to whatever terms. I've done numerous deals like that where I loaned people money.