Another presentation 1964 JFK half dollar, this one from a senator

JBK

@DrDarryl posted an excellent thread recently about a presentation 1964 JFK half dollar accompanied by its original letter from President Lyndon B. Johnson. That inspired me to pick up an item that I had been watching on ebay for the past few months.

It is a 1964 JFK half that was sent by Senator Birch Bayh to a constituent.

The presentation is not nearly as nice as @DrDarryl 's example, and therefore the provenance is not as ironclad as his, but the coin certainly looks like it has been taped to the cardboard for 56 years.

I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I noted that the date of the letter is the same as the LBJ ones - March 24, 1964. This makes me wonder if the mint made examples available to certain political figures on that date, or if Sen. Bayh regifted a half dollar he got from LBJ.

johnny9434

Way cool

Hydrant

Nice tape job. Classy.

Swampboy

Very cool.
To me, the tape is just part of the story.

1Bufffan

Interesting that the letter said that the coin was given "two weeks prior to the general distribution" I wonder how the Senator had access to coinage that was not yet available to the public,

ambro51

“commemorative” coin? Were they thinking a one year, back to Franklin situation hmmmmm

fathom

Yes definitely need to keep as is.

morgansforever

@Hydrant said:
Nice tape job. Classy.

About as classy as the 2014 3/4 oz. Kennedy gold piece, shouldn't it of been a full oz?

Mr_Spud

Some reagent grade acetone would get the tape residue off easily enough. It might be worth it to keep the coin from deteriorating further. I wonder what the reverse looks like.

ThreeCentSilverFL

I'd keep it as is. Cool.

291fifth

Leave it just as it is.

Zoins

@JBK said:
I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I would send it to PCGS. If you want someone to handle it, I would use the PCGS service.

MWallace

Very cool Jeff. I'm leaning toward leaving it as is, but also see the appeal of it being slabbed as long as the label states what it is. If you have it slabbed, keep good pictures of it as it is now.

MWallace

Here's an AP Wire photo of the 1st Day Issued, March 24, 1964.

MFeld

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I would send it to PCGS. If you want someone to handle it, I would use the PCGS service.

I wouldn’t. I think slabbing it would kill the charm.

Zoins

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I would send it to PCGS. If you want someone to handle it, I would use the PCGS service.

I wouldn’t. I think slabbing it would kill the charm.

I'm 100% okay with the loss of that "charm"

It's just on a piece of cardboard. It's not as if the item it's taped to has any special text or seal on it.

MFeld

@Zoins said:

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I would send it to PCGS. If you want someone to handle it, I would use the PCGS service.

I wouldn’t. I think slabbing it would kill the charm.

I'm 100% okay with the loss of that "charm"

It's just on a piece of cardboard. It's not as if the item it's taped to has any special text or seal on it.

That’s all true, but I’d much rather have such a coin out of a holder and with the tape. You may, of course, have yours slabbed.

Zoins

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am now trying to decide if I should have the coin cleaned of any contaminants (but not dipped for color) and then slabbed for preservation purposes. Any suggestions or opinions would be welcomed.

I would send it to PCGS. If you want someone to handle it, I would use the PCGS service.

I wouldn’t. I think slabbing it would kill the charm.

I'm 100% okay with the loss of that "charm"

It's just on a piece of cardboard. It's not as if the item it's taped to has any special text or seal on it.

That’s all true, but I’d much rather have such a coin out of a holder and with the tape. You may, of course, have yours slabbed.

Well, it's really up to the OP right? The OP mentioned considering slabbing it for preservation purposes and asked for suggestions, so we're both providing ours.

You may, of course, have yours remain taped

MedalCollector

Removing the coin from the cardboard and lifting off the tape residue would make it just like all of the other millions of 64 Kennedys.

If it was a rare or special variety, I might agree with some level of conservation, but it is not. JMO

A very cool piece, indeed!

Zoins

@GoldenEgg said:
Removing the coin from the cardboard and lifting off the tape residue would make it just like all of the other millions of 64 Kennedys.

I disagree it would look like all the other 64 Kennedys. I certainly wouldn't dip it. Keeping the awesome tape toning pattern would retain the charm for me.

A very cool piece, indeed!

This I agree with.

CalifornianKing

It's up to the OP but if it was mine I would send it in for conservation and grading IF they would write on the label about how it is a presentation piece.

Zoins

@CalifornianKing said:
It's up to the OP but if it was mine I would send it in for conservation and grading IF they would write on the label about how it is a presentation piece.

Agree having the provenance is very important.

PCGS just added the "Ex. Corning II Mayor of Albany" provenance for @Goldminers so I'm optimistic here too.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1012171/gold-albany-bi-centennial-cradle-of-the-union-so-called-dollar-hk-511#latest

JBK

Thx all for the input so far. I have some agreement with all the suggestions.

I am inherently apprehensive about being the one to peel the coin off the cardboard after all these years, but I also am sensitive to the longer-term preservation considerations.

If a TPG would recognize the provenance on the label then I might be more willing to consider that route.

MasonG

If I was in the market for a historical item like this, I'd want it to be original. IMO, putting the coin in a hunk of plastic = Not interested.

Zoins

@MasonG said:
If I was in the market for a historical item like this, I'd want it to be original. IMO, putting the coin in a hunk of plastic = Not interested.

Do you ever buy historical items like this?

Lots of coins are removed from original holders, slabbed and kept / sold with the original paperwork.

Here's an original holder I have that I won't remove, but this is a bit different than what we have here.

MasonG

@Zoins said:
Do you ever buy historical items like this?

I have bought historical items in the past.

@Zoins said:
Lots of coins are removed from original holders, slabbed and kept / sold with the original paperwork.

Yes, I understand that's so. As mentioned above, the OP mentioned considering slabbing it for preservation purposes and asked for suggestions, so we're both providing ours.

@Zoins said:
Here's an original holder I have that I won't remove, but this is a bit different than what we have here.

Why?

Zoins

I will say that if donating it to a museum or say the ANS is a future consideration, I would keep it on the cardboard.

Zoins

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Here's an original holder I have that I won't remove, but this is a bit different than what we have here.

Why?

Read the text on the token

JBK

@Zoins said:
I will say that if donating it to a museum or say the ANS is a future consideration, I would keep it on the cardboard.

That exact scenario had not immediately crossed my mind, but it is worth considering that type of situation. The whole package as originally created might be of more historical interest as is (I also have the original mailing envelope).

MasonG

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

Zoins

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

MFeld

@Zoins said:

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

But it did come that way, which is part of its history and presentation.

MasonG

@Zoins said:
The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

No, it doesn't. Ok... so you're in favor of maintaining historical items in their original condition- just not this one.

RedStorm

@ambro51 said:
“commemorative” coin? Were they thinking a one year, back to Franklin situation hmmmmm

Commemorative in a layman’s sense versus a numismatist’s, I think. The Ike dollar, like the Kennedy half, was issued shortly after the general’s death and was thought of as a ‘commemorative coin’ in a general sense too.

Zoins

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

But it did come that way, which is part of its history and presentation.

This is part of the history and presentation of the 1913 Liberty Head nickels as it used to hold them all. Unfortunately, not a single one is stored it in anymore

To me, the cardboard is more like this holder than the cocoabola wood.

It's okay for different people to value the cardboard differently.

MasonG

@Zoins said:
This is part of the history and presentation of the 1913 Liberty Head nickels as it used to hold them all. Unfortunately, not a single one is stored it in anymore

Somebody was presented with that? Who? And who made the presentation?

Zoins

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
This is part of the history and presentation of the 1913 Liberty Head nickels as it used to hold them all. Unfortunately, not a single one is stored it in anymore

Somebody was presented with that? Who? And who made the presentation?

Colonel Green presented it to his audience of course.

You may be using the "presentation" more formally than I am.

I believe Birch Bayh would have thought the cardboard would be saved less than even Green's nickel holder.

MasonG

The coin in the OPs post was given (presented) to the person who received it. Did Colonel Green give the coins to his audience?

Zoins

@MasonG said:
The coin in the OPs post was given (presented) to the person who received it. Did Colonel Green give the coins to his audience?

The word "present" doesn't necessarily mean "give" a physical thing.

I present slides and give talks (presentations) all the time which don't involve giving some physical object.

MFeld

@Zoins said:

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

But it did come that way, which is part of its history and presentation.

This is part of the history and presentation of the 1913 Liberty Head nickels as it used to hold them all. Unfortunately, not a single one is stored it in anymore

To me, the cardboard is more like this holder than the cocoabola wood.

It's okay for different people to value the cardboard differently.

How cool would it be to display that holder with one (or more) of the 1913 nickels in it?! But alas, I only got halfway there.😉

Zoins

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@MFeld said:

@Zoins said:

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
Read the text on the token

I read it. As long as the slab included the provenance, why would it matter if the token was removed?

The JFK half dollar doesn't say it comes taped to cardboard

But it did come that way, which is part of its history and presentation.

This is part of the history and presentation of the 1913 Liberty Head nickels as it used to hold them all. Unfortunately, not a single one is stored it in anymore

To me, the cardboard is more like this holder than the cocoabola wood.

It's okay for different people to value the cardboard differently.

How cool would it be to display that holder with one (or more) of the 1913 nickels in it?! But alas, I only got halfway there.😉

I do think it would be nice, but the current owners of the nickels apparently do not.

This holder did sell for over $10K without any coins. I don't think the cardboard would go for that much.

MasonG

@Zoins said:
The word "present" doesn't necessarily mean "give" a physical thing.

No, it doesn't.

@Zoins said:
I present slides and give talks (presentations) all the time which don't involve giving some physical object.

Ok. You're using the word to mean something different than the OP. Got it.

Zoins

@MasonG said:

@Zoins said:
I present slides and give talks (presentations) all the time which don't involve giving some physical object.

Ok. You're using the word to mean something different than the OP. Got it.

That's nitpicking to me. We can of course choose to interpret it differently.

You obviously value the cardboard more than I, and others, do. That's ok. We don't have to convince each other.

MasonG

The difference between giving something to someone and showing it to them is nitpicking? Ok.

BTW- I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Flatwoods

I'd make a cool frame for that and hang it as is.

cmerlo1

Tape is cool sometimes. Possible bloody fingerprints, not so much:

Zoins

@MasonG said:
The difference between giving something to someone and showing it to them is nitpicking? Ok.

It is to me here.

BTW- I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Good to know. Thanks.

ambro51

Think ahead to the collectors of the future. Keep it All exactly as found. Tape cardboard and everything. No one can recover originality, but You can preserve it.

Zoins

@JBK said:
It is a 1964 JFK half that was sent by Senator Birch Bayh to a constituent.

What I want to know is who is Miller Carbon and why he was chosen to receive this

BillJones

@Mr_Spud said:
Some reagent grade acetone would get the tape residue off easily enough. It might be worth it to keep the coin from deteriorating further. I wonder what the reverse looks like.

I imagine that the reverse is toned black or at least as dark as the areas not covered by the type. The coin is mounted on cardboard which is full of sulfur. It is best to leave this coin where it is.

This reminds me of a 1950 Proof set I saw many years ago that was housed in a custom made, inscribed presentation case. The case had partially melted, which had damaged the coins, but it was subscribed to a cabinet member of the Truman administration, I forget which one. The price was $200 below the Grey Sheet bid for the set at the time, about $300, because of the damage, but I now regret not buying it. It was a unique item.

JBK

@BillJones said:

@Mr_Spud said:
Some reagent grade acetone would get the tape residue off easily enough. It might be worth it to keep the coin from deteriorating further. I wonder what the reverse looks like.

I imagine that the reverse is toned black or at least as dark as the areas not covered by the type. The coin is mounted on cardboard which is full of sulfur. It is best to leave this coin where it is.

The reverse is part of what made me consider stabbing it. I was surprised by the lack of adverse effects of the tape adhesive but I assume the cardboard is not safe for the reverse. I suppose any damage has been done by now.

I might consider slipping a piece of acid free paper or Mylar in between the coin and cardboard to act as a barrier to prevent any ongoing damage from the cardboard. The tape seems to not be an issue at this point.