Beginner Here, looking for advice and tips
misiu007
Posts: 12 ✭
Hi Everyone,
My name is Chris, live in Chicago area and am 45 years old. You guys seem to have a great forum here with mountains of knowledge shared between the posters. Realizing similar threads have been floating around, dont mean to be repetitive but have some specific questions. Im looking to get into coin collecting for two reasons,
- as an investment, collecting bullion, gold coins, coins with potential to keep or increase their value - to diversify my investment portfolio a bit (~10%)
- to collect coins for the sheer fun of it. I remember that ever since I was a little boy, I used to collect old beat up coins that I found in random places, and spending great amounts of time staring at them, wondering about where they come from, who has used them in the past, if there is anything special about them. In my adult life I have been collecting coins and currency bills from around the world, that I picked up during my travels, but would like to reconnect with really learning about coin collecting and everything it entails. Ive always liked old coins, for simple reason that they have more history and been around longer.
Concerning #1, am I better off investing in bullion type gold, as in perhaps 1oz new american eagle gold coins or are there more interesting coins that may keep or increase in their value in the future?
Concerning # 2, where do i start my journey? What are some of the best sources to start learning about numismatic coin collecting? Books, videos, perhaps online courses? Any advice and tips for a beginner?
TIA
Comments
Welcome to the forum!
Welcome! And re-read what 291fifth posted several times. That’s the long and short of it. Coins can be fun, and a store of value, but it’s typically not a great way to grow your net worth. It can, of course, grow your enjoyment greatly.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Welcome to the Forum's
Steve
Welcome
Thanks, Ill pick up a copy of "A Guide Book of United States Coins". For collector coins, i meant as a hobby. Reading some of the previous newbie threads on here, it became clear that collector coins may not be the best type of investment. As such, Ill probably have limited funds to use towards starting a collection, but im quite alright with that. Why do you think the world of coin collectors is shrinking? Do you think its because of the shift to digital currencies?
As for the investment in gold, do you guys think it would be more prudent to simply pickup gold bars? they seem to closer to spot price of gold. Coins still sound little more attractive to me, but I realize the mark up there will likely be a little higher. Saw some website online offering an oz gold 2020 american eagle at current market price of gold as an intro offer but am not sure how legit. What would be a reputable source for buying bullion coins?
THanks for the warm welcome, hopefuly with time I can bring some insight and information others can use as well.
Welcome a board! Buy a copy of the Red Book.
Coins can be an investment, but not for a beginner.
Knowledgeable experts can buy coins as investments using their knowledge.
How about buying some common date pre-33 gold coinage?
It will satisfy the bullion stacker and the coin collector in you.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
That sound like a great idea. What are some reputable places to purchase?
Coin collecting isn’t the best investment vehicle, but I will say as a hobby, it has minimal financial downside (ever owned a boat?).
Collecting pre-33 gold is a great combo of stacking and collecting, especially if you stay away from the rarities. You can get really neat coins with lots of history for not much over spot.
People on here like the BST (buy/sell/trade) and many have recommended APMEX for bullion. Finding a local coin shop to work with would be a good idea, whether you’re stacking, collecting, or both.
Welcome to the forum and have fun on your journey!
My favorite place to buy pre-33 is right here on the forums in the Buy,Sell,Trade section.
eBay is good as long as it’s from a reputable dealer. Some auction sites like Great Collections are good but usually offer coins that wouldn’t be classified as bullion type gold coinage. More high grade, key date type inventory in those venues.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Boat hell, try a horse.
What others have said is already sound advice.
As for the advice on collector coins not being such a great investment, it really depends on how savvy you are in purchasing them and what type of coin. The highest graded coins of Julius Caesar and Napoleon should always hold and increase their value as they attract not only coin collectors, but artifact collectors as well.
Sources to buy coins would include the BST Forum here, APMEX, eBay (only from the reputable dealers). Those are the ones I have used multiple times.
It would also do you some good to join a local coin club. People there share knowledge and many clubs have coin auctions too. I know with COVID-19, live meetings are cancelled, so you really have this Forum for now, which is also nice.
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The hobby is aging. Fewer young people are interested. It is the fate of many old line hobbies. Some will say that there are many new "internet-only" collectors out there. There are some but probably not enough to keep the coin hobby from slowly declining.
About 35 years ago I was attending a meeting of a stamp club I was a member of. I made much the same comment about the future fate of stamp collecting. I was laughed at by the other members. Today my dire prediction has come true. Stamp collecting has experienced a severe decline due to the aging of its hobbyists.
The mark-up on collector coins is much higher than it is on bullion coins. There are many ways disguise markups in collectible fields. Grading one way when buying and another way when selling is one of the examples of this. Learn how to grade conservatively. Look at many of the "Guess the Grade" threads you can find in this forum. You will be able to tell fairly quickly who knows how to grade and who does not.
But don't be too stingy, either. Online coin stores are a gold mine - you don't want to get blocked by the sellers for making lowball offers.
Interesting. I used to amateur collect stamps when I was in my teens and remember how much i enjoyed it, despite not being able to spend much money on it... Unfortunately, I had several big albums of stamps that got left behind when I moved with my family to another continent. Back then, we used to meet up with some friends that also collected stamps and would exchange them with one another to complete collections etc. I dont think I care very much if coin collecting is becoming less popular, but understand how that impacts demand and value of coins and ultimately makes it less than ideal investment. Much more interested in enjoying the journey.
Since everyone said everything I would, Buy bullion at the lowest price point. It's friggin' bullion, it will never be "a coin". Buy coins that you like, pleasing to your eye in PCGS or NGC holders ONLY. When you can grade better than the Dealers then you can buy raw coins. Again, shop around.
E-Bay "sold" listings can give you a great idea of what current values for any given coin should be. Do your research. Buying just one or two coins that aren't special can turn off a starting collector.
For the record, coins are far more fun than bullion.
Welcome to the forums.
My YouTube Channel
CoinFacts is also a great reference tool.
I’m going to disagree with the advice of “think like a dealer, buy like a dealer”. If one has no experience in buying, selling, or grading, I don’t think this realistic or helpful.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
American Gold eagles (AGEs) are a great way to invest in bullion. They offer both low spreads to spot and high liquidity. They are an excellent way to add physical bullion to your investment portfolio. If you are going to procure any quantity over time, don't sweat every penny over spot, it is much more important to find a reputable & trustworthy dealer who can provide service to you.
Welcome! You've come to the right place to learn.
Gold is up pretty high right now, so you may have missed your window. However, I like pre-33 gold. Even low mint state coins can be purchased with a marginal mark up over spot.
You might consider buying some folders/albums and a huge bag of just 90% junk silver which has a very low premium over spot compared to bars/bullion. I think its fun, and satisfying to complete a book. You could easily complete Franklin halves and Roosevelt dimes this way. You could make a serious dent in Mercury dimes and Walking Liberty halves this way too! It could be a bridge to higher grade mint state coins too.
Read up on grading too!
Welcome to the forums!
Can't comment on the Bullion but regarding the collecting aspect I will give you my sincerest piece of advise: Try to have fun, enjoy the hobby and your collecting!
K
@misiu007.... Welcome aboard. Excellent advice offered above. I also recommend you visit the Precious Metals forum. Stacking gold or silver is a good store of value. The market is rising right now, so bide your time. If you buy, I recommend you stick to American Silver Eagles (ASE) and American Gold Eagles (AGE)....They are far more liquid when needed. Buy as close to melt as possible. As far as coins, be careful. Learn as much as you can before buying... start off with a reasonable type/series and enjoy it. Cheers, RickO
Agree and I would also add the Gold Buffalos to the list.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall.... Thanks, I intended to include the Gold Buffalo coins.... oversight. Cheers, RickO
You will lose money on everything you buy. Every dealer is smarter than you and out only to make money. You will buy overpriced items and not know any better. When you realize all this is true and sell to escape you’ll lose about half what you put in.
Collecting coins is a great hobby, but dismally lousy investment. Transaction costs are high and the system is designed to siphon $$ away from individual collectors.
I’d guess 90% of those who collect will realize an actual loss when they sell. Even those who do make a modest profit would have almost always done better in real estate or mutual funds.
The only chance you have to come out ahead financially is to have superior knowledge, superior grading skills, and access to large quantities of quality material outside of normal retail channels.
Have fun, fully fund traditional retirement accounts first, never borrow to buy coins, and enjoy a truly wonderful hobby for what it is. Just don’t confuse it with investing.
THIS ^^^
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Welcome, I just rejoined PCGS after gone for 5 years and my old account did not work. These guys have great advice here. Stay away from bulk or bars of gold as some may be filled with something other than gold. If you want larger chunks of silver try the America the beautiful 5 OZ coins if you can get them for a little over spot.
If you use CoinWorld, PCGS, and NGCs value guides, you can get a pretty good idea of a coin's value. They are bookmarked in my computer. I buy ASEs(PR70s), Modern Commemorative (PR69) silver dollars, and have started on the top 100 Modern Coins (about 27th on NGCs registry).
Thanks guys, lots of good advice. If you get graded coins, what rating would typically be the sweet spot? MS62 and up?
Welcome!
Enjoy!
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
Welcome, have fun!
Okay I'll be the black sheep. My experience in coin collecting has been very rewarding. Not only financially but mentally also. Keep in mind that I've been collecting coins before there was such a thing as the internet and many of the early purchases have doubled or tripled in value.
If you purchase quality coins and hold onto them for at least a decade, you'll make a good profit.
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
Welcome @misiu007
Seems like very good advice through and through. I hope you say around, learn, and really and enjoy the "hobby of kings". Collect what you enjoy, and take the time to pick up a book or two, maybe a periodical, and look and study before you purchase.
The rest of this is my own personal opinion about purchasing gold ... others opinions and advice may vary
Make sure whatever you do with Gold is liquid. Bars are NOT the easiest vehicle for trading in my opinion. For purchases of modern issues, I would say American Eagles and Buffalos in any size are the most liquid. MS-68's and 69's are probably the sweet spot.
IF you go with pre-33 Gold, AND you want to track bullion, my suggestion would be to stick with PCGS (or NGC) examples only, at least until you really have your feet under you (and probably even then). MS62 and MS63 are a good value point, and try to stay close to spot.
I think this is ultimately a better way to enjoy numismatics and bullion together, and while it isn't always the cheapest way to play bullion directly, the spreads are similar to modern bullion if you stick with what is considered more "generic" gold.
"Generic" is generally used to define "most common dates". Eagles and Double Eagles tend to be the way to stay closer to spot, although many people like the smaller denominations like Quarter and Half Eagles.
Also, keep an eye out for "less common" dates, trading at common prices. You will have this opportunity more often in a rising gold market than a falling one. When gold is rising, many of these "slightly better" dates lose a little of any "numismatic premium" they have, and when gold is falling, they tend to gain some of it back.
I don't mean rarities, as that is a different world. I mean common or close to common-priced dates that have lower overall surviving populations of graded examples. A good way to find this is look at population data, even though it is somewhat skewed.
For a terrible and not to insightful example, the following three dates (1894, 1900, and 1907) are considered very common Liberty $10. in 62 and 63 grades, and nice cons for the grade can be found with little searching. They are priced almost identically. But one has a noticeably lower graded population than the other two. All factors being equal (price, grade, eye appeal) my own nature almost always gravitates toward scarcity. It keeps the hunt more interesting.
Ramble over! Good luck!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Every dealer is going to look at you the same way a dog looks at a 3 year old w/ an ice cream cone.
I'd go with PCGS certified American Gold Eagles in MS69.
You can avoid the grading/CAC idocy associated with Pre-33 stuff.
Pick something easy to start or you'll get slaughtered.
APMEX sells fairly cheap and you don't have to worry about getting ripped off.
There are many little things to learn like coming home after dark & seeing 8K worth of coins sitting on your porch.
https://www.apmex.com/category/11121/1-oz-american-gold-eagle-coins-pcgs-certified
Run your 1st purchase past us here and we'll advise.
BTW...Welcome
My Saint Set
Thats great. What has been the biggest contributor to your success?
I hear ya. Thats why Im here to educate myself, as much as I can anyway, before buying any coins. Taking a look at APMEX and BST section of this fourm. Have lots of reading to do! THanks
Thank you for all the specifics. Really helpful.
At 45 years of age you have plenty of time to worry about "making a profit". Don't spend money that you think you might need for the next ten years or so (especially the mortgage payment or grocery money), pick a series / category. buy what seems attractive and of interest. enjoy the ride.
You seem like you might be a world traveler. If so you might want to consider the darkside (foreign coins). You'd be surprised how many different small sovereign size or 20 franc size gold coins you can buy close to melt value from the countries you have visited and build up a nice stack of gold bullion in the process. At major shows with multiple bullion dealers you can frequently buy this type material for 3 to 10% over melt and usually sell it for 98% of melt should you lose interest or decide to take a profit.
Anyway, have fun and welcome to the forum.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
It’s funny.....you can spend fortunes and acquire great rarities but you never relive the thrill of finding a 1955 S to fill that last hole in your penny book.
The best "investment advice" is don't. The second best is collect what other people don't and if you're a good collector you'll probably eventually make a profit.
Sell a coin once in a while because it's only when selling you learn what coins are really worth.
Best advice is have fun and everything else will take care of itself. It always has for me in nearly 65 years of collecting.
If you want to add gold to your portfolio you can just buy the GLD ETF and your transaction fees are basically 0. Even with bullion you’ll pay a 5% spread and then you have to worry about storing it.
Collect coins for the fun of it. Some may go up in value. Some may go down. Obviously they are an investment, but whether they are a good one or a bad one largely depends on the market (luck) and your degree of preparation. No one has knowledge of which series or even specific coins will do well (at least I’ve never really seen credible claims of this) but people who make money do so with experience and an eye for quality.
That's easy - "Time"
Coins, real estate, classic cars all appreciate in time
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
If you buy at the wrong time and/or the wrong price, you can still be in a loss position, even after decades.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The ears of classic commem collectors all over the country are burning right now...