Doubling your money with coins or bullion in 15 years sounds great, but a good mix of mutual funds should double every 7-9 years. From an investment viewpoint, you have to consider the opportunity cost of your choice.
My name is Chris, live in Chicago area and am 45 years old. You guys seem to have a great forum here with mountains of knowledge shared between the posters. Realizing similar threads have been floating around, dont mean to be repetitive but have some specific questions. Im looking to get into coin collecting for two reasons,
as an investment, collecting bullion, gold coins, coins with potential to keep or increase their value - to diversify my investment portfolio a bit (~10%)
to collect coins for the sheer fun of it. I remember that ever since I was a little boy, I used to collect old beat up coins that I found in random places, and spending great amounts of time staring at them, wondering about where they come from, who has used them in the past, if there is anything special about them. In my adult life I have been collecting coins and currency bills from around the world, that I picked up during my travels, but would like to reconnect with really learning about coin collecting and everything it entails. Ive always liked old coins, for simple reason that they have more history and been around longer.
Concerning #1, am I better off investing in bullion type gold, as in perhaps 1oz new american eagle gold coins or are there more interesting coins that may keep or increase in their value in the future?
Concerning # 2, where do i start my journey? What are some of the best sources to start learning about numismatic coin collecting? Books, videos, perhaps online courses? Any advice and tips for a beginner?
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the forum.
Viewed strictly as a way to "invest" (speculate is probably more accurate) in gold, coins are at a disadvantage (from a transactional cost and security standpoint) to proxy investments like GLD. It's true that owning physical gold affords the pleasure of actually viewing your "investment", so you have to calculate how much that is worth to you. If you simply want to hedge against the decline in fiat currency, I'd suggest Bitcoin over gold. The supply/demand dynamics favor the former.
If you just want to collect coins for fun and at reasonable cost, consider filling in an album or two with raw coins purchased on eBay or other Internet venues. As others have said, education is key before spending serious money on slabbed coins. This will give you something fun to pursue while you're getting up to speed on more expensive coins.
Having over 60 years in the collecting aspect, In addition to all the advice above, for the coin collecting part: simply Buy what YOU like- Your opinion is the only one that counts. If you like type coins you may want to try a Dansco 7070 album.
You’ve been given some good suggestions and advice, and some of what will follow has already been posted. These are my collecting tips, which I’ve posted here and elsewhere over a period of many years (and edited slightly):
Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.
Examine as many coins as you can which have been graded by the most highly respected grading companies. This can be done at coin shows and in auctions and is a great way to improve upon your grading skills.
The best way to improve your grading ability is to find someone who is highly qualified AND willing to spend time reviewing coins with you. That person can be a dealer or collector, but he needs to be more than just a friend – he needs to be a teacher. Many individuals are “qualified” OR “willing to spend the time”, but few are BOTH.
Don’t keep buying coins without ever selling any of them – learn what it’s like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those “gems” they sold to you.
Don’t be afraid or embarrassed to ask lots of questions. You and just about everyone else can learn a great deal that way.
Be aware of privacy and security concerns. It might not be fun to do so, but it’s extremely important.
It’s always good to get a second opinion. Doing so doesn’t make you less knowledgeable, worthy or confident – it simply makes good sense.
Don’t try to get bargains at the expense of quality and desirability, or you’ll likely end up with sub-par coins which aren’t bargains, anyway.
Generally, I advise against “investing” in coins. Even if you are very well informed, based upon buy/sell spreads and other factors, the odds are against your success. That said, I understand that many collectors end up spending significant sums of money on their collections and can’t/shouldn’t ignore the financial implications.
If you are going to “invest”, I’d suggest diversification – not putting too much of your money into one coin or one coin type. I’d also recommend staying away from especially esoteric and/or illiquid and/or currently “hot” items.
While it is not a pleasant mindset to engage in, think about and plan for how your coins should be disposed of if/when something happens to you. Make your spouse and/or family and/or friends and/or an attorney aware of your wishes. If you have a particular dealer or coin/auction company that should be contacted, have that information recorded, along with costs, sources, purchase dates, etc., of your coins.
Eye-appeal is hard to ignore, but technical quality shouldn’t be over-looked/compromised.
If you participate in auctions, whether over the Internet or in person, set your price/bidding limits in advance and stick to them. Auction fever hits many bidders, and almost always to their detriment.
Find time for other activities that don’t have anything to do with coin collecting. Don’t make coins your whole life – life is too short for that.
If you are going to stretch to buy a coin, do it for a coin which is truly special and/or virtually irreplaceable, not on an ordinary one. There are far more of the latter than of the former, and there will almost always be other opportunities.
Don’t talk yourself into buying a coin. If something about it bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later.
Don’t be lulled into a false/unrealistic sense of security during strong/rising markets. There are good markets and bad markets too – I promise.
Unless you have a full return privilege, don’t buy rare coins on a sight-unseen basis, regardless of the seller or the images.
Enjoy our hobby.
I repeat, enjoy our hobby.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Mfield Great summary and thanks for taking the time to post it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@MFeld said:
Don’t keep buying coins without ever selling any of them – learn what it’s like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those “gems” they sold to you.
This is a classic statement, I almost choked on my coffee laughing when I read that
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
Now, in regards to bullion - an interesting move would be to start a collection of the new Silver Eagle series (and a new Gold Eagle Series if it happens), right from the start. However, be wary of what the Mint has been doing - they will string you along for years while you pursue a fine collection - and at the last minute they will offer an "instant rarity" of extremely low mintage at a horrendous markup and the collection on which you've spent considerable time & money on will be rendered incomplete without a major outlay of $$$ and frustration to go along with that.
One point about collecting bullion - low premiums are your friend, especially until you come to appreciate what makes a bullion piece more desirable and worth a higher premium. A long term plan involving both finance and desire prior to beginning a serious collection is always a good idea.
One point about coin collecting and the dwindling number of coin collectors - don't necessarily believe that the numbers of coin collectors is static and will never begin to increase at some point in the future. Whenever gold & silver encounter increased demand because of concerns over inflation, government spending and economic uncertainty (such as now) - more people are drawn into both bullion and into coin collecting in general. I hadn't collected coins for about 20 years until my own re-entry into coin collecting came as a result of an interest in retaining the purchasing power of my savings via silver and gold, after the stock market crash of '87.
You can also satisfy your collecting bug by buying yourself some blue Whitman folders and filling them out of circulation at minimal cost. You can do a low-cost collection of modern non-precious metal coins by purchasing from the Mint as well - however, with a caveat that the Mint has picked up a nasty habit of producing a plethora of varieties and finishes (sold at a premium) that defy mere mortals the chance of keeping track of the varieties and finishes - with the inevitable result that the whole collection rightfully assumes only face value when you try to sell it. Moral of the story, do that type of collecting for fun only.
Down the road, after you immerse yourself back into the pursuit of collecting coins, you might consider one or more of the time-honored classic series. It's oft been said that "they aren't making any more of them" and even so, you will likely not recoup your original outlay if you should decide to sell the collection later. However, the ability to "hold history in your hand" has always been one of the most appealing aspects of coin collecting - and it always will be.
Lastly, buy a Redbook and maybe a couple other good coin references. And take your time. David Hall said, "have fun with your coins" which is always a great idea. David Bowers is another great example to follow, if you can find some of the many articles (and books) on coin collection that he has written over the years.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The best gold for paying close to spot and yet getting something historical would be British Sovereigns and French 20 Francs/Italian 20 Lire, etc. from the Latin Monetary Union from 1865 to WW1. Fractions of an ounce and AU/Unc. condition with little or no premium.
Bars are too easily counterfeited and have no numismatic interest.
@MFeld said:
You’ve been given some good suggestions and advice, and some of what will follow has already been posted. These are my collecting tips, which I’ve posted here and elsewhere over a period of many years (and edited slightly):
Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.
Examine as many coins as you can which have been graded by the most highly respected grading companies. This can be done at coin shows and in auctions and is a great way to improve upon your grading skills.
The best way to improve your grading ability is to find someone who is highly qualified AND willing to spend time reviewing coins with you. That person can be a dealer or collector, but he needs to be more than just a friend – he needs to be a teacher. Many individuals are “qualified” OR “willing to spend the time”, but few are BOTH.
Don’t keep buying coins without ever selling any of them – learn what it’s like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those “gems” they sold to you.
Don’t be afraid or embarrassed to ask lots of questions. You and just about everyone else can learn a great deal that way.
Be aware of privacy and security concerns. It might not be fun to do so, but it’s extremely important.
It’s always good to get a second opinion. Doing so doesn’t make you less knowledgeable, worthy or confident – it simply makes good sense.
Don’t try to get bargains at the expense of quality and desirability, or you’ll likely end up with sub-par coins which aren’t bargains, anyway.
Generally, I advise against “investing” in coins. Even if you are very well informed, based upon buy/sell spreads and other factors, the odds are against your success. That said, I understand that many collectors end up spending significant sums of money on their collections and can’t/shouldn’t ignore the financial implications.
If you are going to “invest”, I’d suggest diversification – not putting too much of your money into one coin or one coin type. I’d also recommend staying away from especially esoteric and/or illiquid and/or currently “hot” items.
While it is not a pleasant mindset to engage in, think about and plan for how your coins should be disposed of if/when something happens to you. Make your spouse and/or family and/or friends and/or an attorney aware of your wishes. If you have a particular dealer or coin/auction company that should be contacted, have that information recorded, along with costs, sources, purchase dates, etc., of your coins.
Eye-appeal is hard to ignore, but technical quality shouldn’t be over-looked/compromised.
If you participate in auctions, whether over the Internet or in person, set your price/bidding limits in advance and stick to them. Auction fever hits many bidders, and almost always to their detriment.
Find time for other activities that don’t have anything to do with coin collecting. Don’t make coins your whole life – life is too short for that.
If you are going to stretch to buy a coin, do it for a coin which is truly special and/or virtually irreplaceable, not on an ordinary one. There are far more of the latter than of the former, and there will almost always be other opportunities.
Don’t talk yourself into buying a coin. If something about it bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later.
Don’t be lulled into a false/unrealistic sense of security during strong/rising markets. There are good markets and bad markets too – I promise.
Unless you have a full return privilege, don’t buy rare coins on a sight-unseen basis, regardless of the seller or the images.
Enjoy our hobby.
I repeat, enjoy our hobby.
Wow, amazingly insightful. Really appreciate it. I saved your post to a word doc and have it on my desktop for future reference. Thank you very much!
I have two pieces of advice. I would consider joining the American Numismatic Association. Their mandate is education and you can learn a great deal.
I would also take a look at the American Numismatic Association's videos. Many of them address the questions you posed. https://www.money.org/video-vignettes https://info.money.org/elearning
@MFeld said:
You’ve been given some good suggestions and advice, and some of what will follow has already been posted. These are my collecting tips, which I’ve posted here and elsewhere over a period of many years (and edited slightly):
Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.
Examine as many coins as you can which have been graded by the most highly respected grading companies. This can be done at coin shows and in auctions and is a great way to improve upon your grading skills.
The best way to improve your grading ability is to find someone who is highly qualified AND willing to spend time reviewing coins with you. That person can be a dealer or collector, but he needs to be more than just a friend – he needs to be a teacher. Many individuals are “qualified” OR “willing to spend the time”, but few are BOTH.
Don’t keep buying coins without ever selling any of them – learn what it’s like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those “gems” they sold to you.
Don’t be afraid or embarrassed to ask lots of questions. You and just about everyone else can learn a great deal that way.
Be aware of privacy and security concerns. It might not be fun to do so, but it’s extremely important.
It’s always good to get a second opinion. Doing so doesn’t make you less knowledgeable, worthy or confident – it simply makes good sense.
Don’t try to get bargains at the expense of quality and desirability, or you’ll likely end up with sub-par coins which aren’t bargains, anyway.
Generally, I advise against “investing” in coins. Even if you are very well informed, based upon buy/sell spreads and other factors, the odds are against your success. That said, I understand that many collectors end up spending significant sums of money on their collections and can’t/shouldn’t ignore the financial implications.
If you are going to “invest”, I’d suggest diversification – not putting too much of your money into one coin or one coin type. I’d also recommend staying away from especially esoteric and/or illiquid and/or currently “hot” items.
While it is not a pleasant mindset to engage in, think about and plan for how your coins should be disposed of if/when something happens to you. Make your spouse and/or family and/or friends and/or an attorney aware of your wishes. If you have a particular dealer or coin/auction company that should be contacted, have that information recorded, along with costs, sources, purchase dates, etc., of your coins.
Eye-appeal is hard to ignore, but technical quality shouldn’t be over-looked/compromised.
If you participate in auctions, whether over the Internet or in person, set your price/bidding limits in advance and stick to them. Auction fever hits many bidders, and almost always to their detriment.
Find time for other activities that don’t have anything to do with coin collecting. Don’t make coins your whole life – life is too short for that.
If you are going to stretch to buy a coin, do it for a coin which is truly special and/or virtually irreplaceable, not on an ordinary one. There are far more of the latter than of the former, and there will almost always be other opportunities.
Don’t talk yourself into buying a coin. If something about it bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later.
Don’t be lulled into a false/unrealistic sense of security during strong/rising markets. There are good markets and bad markets too – I promise.
Unless you have a full return privilege, don’t buy rare coins on a sight-unseen basis, regardless of the seller or the images.
Enjoy our hobby.
I repeat, enjoy our hobby.
Wow, amazingly insightful. Really appreciate it. I saved your post to a word doc and have it on my desktop for future reference. Thank you very much!
My pleasure and happy to try to help. Thank you, too.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So as an example, I found this on APMEX and it seems like a pretty good deal to me. If I decided to pick one up, it would go under the investment part. Its $200 above golds spot price, which is a reasonable mark up IMO, since its a coin and MS70 graded. Any thoughts or pointers?
@misiu007 said:
So as an example, I found this on APMEX and it seems like a pretty good deal to me. If I decided to pick one up, it would go under the investment part. Its $200 above golds spot price, which is a reasonable mark up IMO, since its a coin and MS70 graded. Any thoughts or pointers?
Have you checked around to see what other have been selling for?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Buy foreign coins. All the auction houses can tell you many foreign coins are in demand. China pre-1949 coin price goes up year after year. Even some modern coins are good investment. Junk boat (most common coin ) price double since last year.
@misiu007 said:
So as an example, I found this on APMEX and it seems like a pretty good deal to me. If I decided to pick one up, it would go under the investment part. Its $200 above golds spot price, which is a reasonable mark up IMO, since its a coin and MS70 graded. Any thoughts or pointers?
Have you checked around to see what other have been selling for?
I have checked around on few sites, this just jumped out at me as possibly a good deal.
Comments
Damn, I guess I've just been lucky
misiu007, ask MFELD and MasonG what they're investing in and do the opposite (Just kidding)
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
Doubling your money with coins or bullion in 15 years sounds great, but a good mix of mutual funds should double every 7-9 years. From an investment viewpoint, you have to consider the opportunity cost of your choice.
I buy and sell coins but don't invest in them. So there's that...
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the forum.
Viewed strictly as a way to "invest" (speculate is probably more accurate) in gold, coins are at a disadvantage (from a transactional cost and security standpoint) to proxy investments like GLD. It's true that owning physical gold affords the pleasure of actually viewing your "investment", so you have to calculate how much that is worth to you. If you simply want to hedge against the decline in fiat currency, I'd suggest Bitcoin over gold. The supply/demand dynamics favor the former.
If you just want to collect coins for fun and at reasonable cost, consider filling in an album or two with raw coins purchased on eBay or other Internet venues. As others have said, education is key before spending serious money on slabbed coins. This will give you something fun to pursue while you're getting up to speed on more expensive coins.
Have fun whatever you do!
Having over 60 years in the collecting aspect, In addition to all the advice above, for the coin collecting part: simply Buy what YOU like- Your opinion is the only one that counts. If you like type coins you may want to try a Dansco 7070 album.
You’ve been given some good suggestions and advice, and some of what will follow has already been posted. These are my collecting tips, which I’ve posted here and elsewhere over a period of many years (and edited slightly):
Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.
Examine as many coins as you can which have been graded by the most highly respected grading companies. This can be done at coin shows and in auctions and is a great way to improve upon your grading skills.
The best way to improve your grading ability is to find someone who is highly qualified AND willing to spend time reviewing coins with you. That person can be a dealer or collector, but he needs to be more than just a friend – he needs to be a teacher. Many individuals are “qualified” OR “willing to spend the time”, but few are BOTH.
Don’t keep buying coins without ever selling any of them – learn what it’s like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those “gems” they sold to you.
Don’t be afraid or embarrassed to ask lots of questions. You and just about everyone else can learn a great deal that way.
Be aware of privacy and security concerns. It might not be fun to do so, but it’s extremely important.
It’s always good to get a second opinion. Doing so doesn’t make you less knowledgeable, worthy or confident – it simply makes good sense.
Don’t try to get bargains at the expense of quality and desirability, or you’ll likely end up with sub-par coins which aren’t bargains, anyway.
Generally, I advise against “investing” in coins. Even if you are very well informed, based upon buy/sell spreads and other factors, the odds are against your success. That said, I understand that many collectors end up spending significant sums of money on their collections and can’t/shouldn’t ignore the financial implications.
If you are going to “invest”, I’d suggest diversification – not putting too much of your money into one coin or one coin type. I’d also recommend staying away from especially esoteric and/or illiquid and/or currently “hot” items.
While it is not a pleasant mindset to engage in, think about and plan for how your coins should be disposed of if/when something happens to you. Make your spouse and/or family and/or friends and/or an attorney aware of your wishes. If you have a particular dealer or coin/auction company that should be contacted, have that information recorded, along with costs, sources, purchase dates, etc., of your coins.
Eye-appeal is hard to ignore, but technical quality shouldn’t be over-looked/compromised.
If you participate in auctions, whether over the Internet or in person, set your price/bidding limits in advance and stick to them. Auction fever hits many bidders, and almost always to their detriment.
Find time for other activities that don’t have anything to do with coin collecting. Don’t make coins your whole life – life is too short for that.
If you are going to stretch to buy a coin, do it for a coin which is truly special and/or virtually irreplaceable, not on an ordinary one. There are far more of the latter than of the former, and there will almost always be other opportunities.
Don’t talk yourself into buying a coin. If something about it bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later.
Don’t be lulled into a false/unrealistic sense of security during strong/rising markets. There are good markets and bad markets too – I promise.
Unless you have a full return privilege, don’t buy rare coins on a sight-unseen basis, regardless of the seller or the images.
Enjoy our hobby.
I repeat, enjoy our hobby.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Mfield Great summary and thanks for taking the time to post it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
MFeld, You sir are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you.
i just copied and printed your post. Taped to the right of my monitor. Words to live by.
This is a classic statement, I almost choked on my coffee laughing when I read that
Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack
I concur with what Mr. Feld has said.
Now, in regards to bullion - an interesting move would be to start a collection of the new Silver Eagle series (and a new Gold Eagle Series if it happens), right from the start. However, be wary of what the Mint has been doing - they will string you along for years while you pursue a fine collection - and at the last minute they will offer an "instant rarity" of extremely low mintage at a horrendous markup and the collection on which you've spent considerable time & money on will be rendered incomplete without a major outlay of $$$ and frustration to go along with that.
One point about collecting bullion - low premiums are your friend, especially until you come to appreciate what makes a bullion piece more desirable and worth a higher premium. A long term plan involving both finance and desire prior to beginning a serious collection is always a good idea.
One point about coin collecting and the dwindling number of coin collectors - don't necessarily believe that the numbers of coin collectors is static and will never begin to increase at some point in the future. Whenever gold & silver encounter increased demand because of concerns over inflation, government spending and economic uncertainty (such as now) - more people are drawn into both bullion and into coin collecting in general. I hadn't collected coins for about 20 years until my own re-entry into coin collecting came as a result of an interest in retaining the purchasing power of my savings via silver and gold, after the stock market crash of '87.
You can also satisfy your collecting bug by buying yourself some blue Whitman folders and filling them out of circulation at minimal cost. You can do a low-cost collection of modern non-precious metal coins by purchasing from the Mint as well - however, with a caveat that the Mint has picked up a nasty habit of producing a plethora of varieties and finishes (sold at a premium) that defy mere mortals the chance of keeping track of the varieties and finishes - with the inevitable result that the whole collection rightfully assumes only face value when you try to sell it. Moral of the story, do that type of collecting for fun only.
Down the road, after you immerse yourself back into the pursuit of collecting coins, you might consider one or more of the time-honored classic series. It's oft been said that "they aren't making any more of them" and even so, you will likely not recoup your original outlay if you should decide to sell the collection later. However, the ability to "hold history in your hand" has always been one of the most appealing aspects of coin collecting - and it always will be.
Lastly, buy a Redbook and maybe a couple other good coin references. And take your time. David Hall said, "have fun with your coins" which is always a great idea. David Bowers is another great example to follow, if you can find some of the many articles (and books) on coin collection that he has written over the years.
I knew it would happen.
The best gold for paying close to spot and yet getting something historical would be British Sovereigns and French 20 Francs/Italian 20 Lire, etc. from the Latin Monetary Union from 1865 to WW1. Fractions of an ounce and AU/Unc. condition with little or no premium.
Bars are too easily counterfeited and have no numismatic interest.
Wow, amazingly insightful. Really appreciate it. I saved your post to a word doc and have it on my desktop for future reference. Thank you very much!
I have two pieces of advice. I would consider joining the American Numismatic Association. Their mandate is education and you can learn a great deal.
I would also take a look at the American Numismatic Association's videos. Many of them address the questions you posed. https://www.money.org/video-vignettes
https://info.money.org/elearning
My pleasure and happy to try to help. Thank you, too.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So as an example, I found this on APMEX and it seems like a pretty good deal to me. If I decided to pick one up, it would go under the investment part. Its $200 above golds spot price, which is a reasonable mark up IMO, since its a coin and MS70 graded. Any thoughts or pointers?
Have you checked around to see what other have been selling for?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That’s a strange choice of slab to illustrate a random year.
Buy foreign coins. All the auction houses can tell you many foreign coins are in demand. China pre-1949 coin price goes up year after year. Even some modern coins are good investment. Junk boat (most common coin ) price double since last year.
I have checked around on few sites, this just jumped out at me as possibly a good deal.