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Common Date Morgans - Flipping Update #2
pointfivezero
Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just returned from my LCS with a bundle of common date Morgans. I noticed the owner had not updated any pricing on their website and after a brief analysis, it appeared there were some deals to be had due to the recent demand. The store had a variety of rattlers, OGH's, fatties and CAC's from which I hand picked 17 coins. Some appear to be dark in the picture but actually have a really great iridescent quality. All the coins in the pictures are in protective plastic wrappers:
Has anyone else noticed and/or taken advantage of these buying opportunities?
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Buying opportunities depend on the price you paid for each coin and what they look like. Keep in mind there are millions of Morgan’s out there and even the “rare” ones aren’t that “rare”.
Yes agreed - removing a couple of the higher graded coins, I paid an average of $65 each.
Seems to me that you paid avg retail, not sure I would call that a buying opportunity.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Be sure to check 'em for VAMs. You may have gotten a deal after all.
Nice Haul. Opportunity knocked and you answered!
CACs , Toners, and OGHs that dont break the bank! Hello!
The definition of "average retail" is a fluid one as evidenced by the PCGS price guide and recent demand. For this purchase, I checked recent sold auctions and even before the group discount the LCS provided, they were profitable.
More importantly, I felt most were under-graded by today's standards. My point is, if the sellers aren't adjusting their prices for current market conditions, there are some buying opportunities out there:
Avg $65 each plus flipping expenses, time to sell, and sales price will equal? Perhaps OP has factored this in his buy decisions.
Good looking bunch!
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Thanks - last two pictures for today. Overall, I'm very pleased.
$65 each would be a buying opportunity for common date MS65 Morgans. 63-64's not so much in my opinion. As long as your happy though that's all that matters. Certainly some nice looking coins in the bunch but from my experiences you paid full retail to full retail +.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
A 91-S is not a common date. That’s a $200 coin in 63. Some of the ones above look very nice for the grade. Most of the toned ones don’t appeal to me, but maybe it’s the lighting. If you’re happy and they were priced right, then well done!
Vamworld.com is the place. Let us know if you find any. Peace Roy
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Where's the fatties?
Nice newps.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Thanks and yes, good catch. No fatties - just Gen 14 and 17 holders.
Thanks. I paid $116.25 for the 91-S. The toners have an iridescence that is hard to capture in pictures.
Thanks Roy - I will get the loop out and start checking.
That is a large acquisition.... Some nice Morgan's there...Good luck with your VAM search.... Cheers, RickO
Common Morgans are just that common Morgans. If the dealer was willing to sell them at that price then it must represent the current ACTUAL market level not the level price guides indicate. Dealers know the market.
Maybe you did well, maybe not. It really depends on what your goal is with respect to their purchase. It does look like there are some nice coins there. The dealer moved 17 coins, so he's happy.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
I don’t think you stole them but I think you did okay. Your coins seem to be on the nicer side and some of them are in older holders.
These are today’s prices from Stacks Bowers.
Thanks for the feedback - @291fifth @messydesk @skier07
Just because I'm bored, I created the following spreadsheet. If I choose to flip this bunch, I will add periodic updates with net gains/losses after ebay, paypal and shipping expenses:
Some of those “recent sales” look optimistic. The last PCGS 66 1900-O that sold at auction went for $276. It didn’t have a sticker but many at that level won’t since it’s not going to affect the price much. Also, your 79-S in 63 has a higher price than the 64. Sure, the 63 is in an old holder, but that isn’t going to flip the expected resale prices.
If you do end up selling some I’ll be interested to see how your results match up with your expectations.
Looks good on paper. I have to wonder about some of the recent sales, though. $650 for the 1900-O is 66+ money. Don't confuse a CAC sticker with a plus grade. EBay will eat up 13-20%, once you figure in the potential for needing to pay sales tax. I think my approach with this lot would be to see if there are any upgrades that matter (maybe the 91-S or 03), check for VAMs (I always do this, but I don't charge myself for my services), and then see if I can make the 00-O free to me, or at least cheap. You may or may not be able to get a little extra for toning on the 04-O. You'll need good and accurate pictures of it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
I think you did alright, especially if you were wanting to keep them. As for flipping, I'm not sure there's much meat on the bone for you, but what do I know, I never sold a coin (only traded a few).
Did you negotiate, or pay asking price? Spending $1,500+ and taking 17 coins, usually there's some volume pricing to be had. I'm interested to know how you fare if you part with the lot. Good luck!
Those recent sales seem a bit hopeful to me. Common date morgans to me are the worst thing period to buy there are hundreds of thousands of those things out there selling them is a pain in the rear due to that. They'll sit for years for sale unless you want to give them away or there's something very special about them.
I would actually encourage you to try flipping a bunch for a profit. It will make you a better buyer later.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The recent sales are from ebay sold auctions in the past few weeks. I did not cherry pick the highest prices. I was also skeptical with the sale price on the 1900-O but it will be the first coin I list. Will keep everyone updated.
I agree with those who have posted about "Recent sales". A number of them look to be more than a little bit optimistic.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The LCS was reluctant to negotiate given the fact she had not updated the prices recently. However, she did provide a 7% discount for the group purchase. As for the $1500 level, this is the amount required for a tax-free purchase here in California. These two coins were listed as available but turned out not to exist so I had to do some last minute scrambling:
MS 65 morgans are a deal. At some point, people outside our hobby will realize you can get a 100 year old antique for next to nothing.
https://www.ebay.com/mys/active
There are more than enough such coins to satisfy anyone who comes to that realization.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The CAC retail price (CACcoins.com) for the 1900-O in 66 is $390. And CAC lists 385 stickered in that grade. No astute buyer is going to pay $650 with those kinds of numbers and retail value. Your best bet is to risk it, crack it out and see if it can hit 67 for a 10x return. But first give it a good evaluation using pcgs photograde to see if it might be a 67 on any given day.
Best, SH
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I'm not saying this buyer is astute nor do I expect this kind of money but it did happen:
I think your prices in the spreadsheet for the "price guide" column are high. 1879-s MS-64 $90 ? Just one example
Another example brought $480 last month and. CAC 66+ sold for $630 in June. You appear to be focusing on outliers, not the norm. While that’s your prerogative, it’s not the way to arrive at realistic numbers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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This was part of the reason for my original post. PCGS recently raised prices 10 - 15% to reflect the general market strength:
Hi Mark - I will admit I limited my search to ebay sold listings so if that is focusing on outliers, guilty as charged. For what it's worth, I just finished my own listing for this coin so we will know more by Sunday night.
If you want to know what coins are bringing, don’t limit your research just to EBay and price guides.
Best of luck with your listing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Using PCGS auction records, 1900-O MS 66/CAC there were 8 coins sold in 2019 to 2020 - winning prices ranged from $300 to 510, a median around $400 and right at the listed price on the CAC website. The $650 is one outlier either for a super spectacular coin for the grade or an uninformed buyer. From the albeit bad image of the coin on ebay, it does not look like it was the former but someone still might have been thinking crack out and a shot at upgrade, or just is not worried about over spending. There may be more uninformed or big spending buyers out there (we all over pay from time to time), but I would not count on it. The CAC price looks pretty solid and a possible quick flip for a good profit........
Best, SH
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
To really evaluate the deal you need to know where they are relative to CDN bid.
A 1900-o went for 276 at auction this month per the CDN app. I don’t c u making any fantastic deal on that.
He indicated that his is stickered. And as already pointed out in this thread, CAC examples have been bringing more than that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Current bid at $185 with still 4 days to go! gogogogogooooO!
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lol - yes, for those playing at home, I have listed both the 1891-S and 1900-O to end Sunday night. This weekend, I plan to list four or five more. Putting together the pictures and documentation now.
My ebay user name is the same as my CU name.
Tim
Cac examples may be bringing more but first you have to find that buyer line up and pay that and that is not easy in this market unless the coin is really PQ on its own merits lol. Go find that buyer. Somebody might take it for $400 Perhaps a tad more. if the coin is all there but $650 the guy is buried..
What has this issue done (Trended) over the last 5 years? If down how much further can it fall? It’s not a single or double digit piece pop wise in 66. Pop 1227 / 332 higher. A nice 63 at $70 works for many.
In looking at the 1900-O that went for $650 I would call it a B coin, average quality. It looks kinda dullish to me is that softness over the ear? I don’t like the dark toning in / around the stars. Bet the seller thrilled get that.
@Cougar1978 - I have no illusions of a $650 sale. And to your point, the trend is not encouraging (see attached) but I'm hoping someone out there needs/wants a nice 66 CAC coin. I'll post an update when the auction closes.
Yes they’re “millions out there” so keep an eye out for a 1893-S or 1901. Both are considered “rare”; but what the heck. Im sure most can spare a few hundred thousand.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
Selling tonight, right?
First two auctions close at 10 PM EST. Then round two starts - four Morgans.
Two Morgans sold - 15 to go (four now up for auction)
My goal was $600 for the two so I fell a bit short but not too far:
Are your sale prices after fees and shipping, or rather “net” instead of “gross”?