Problem coins
mtnman
Posts: 571 ✭✭✭
Is there any reason you would buy a problem coin, details, cleaned, etc? There seem to be a lot of problem coins on eBay and the prices seem to be quite high.
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If I saw a problem coin that I could afford for a more expensive series I otherwise couldn’t afford, as long as it is not too distracting I would get it.
Problem coins .......
When you buy a problem coin, their problem becomes YOUR problem
Only if it was something I otherwise couldn't afford and I felt the "problem" was acceptable to me.
Some ebay sellers think a problem is actually a bonus feature.
Collector, occasional seller
Maybe a rare variety or a pioneer gold coin
Mr_Spud
When I saw 'problem coin" and "eBay" I thought of an interesting coin I saw there. It looks like somebody was chewing on this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1934-S-PEACE-SILVER-DOLLAR-VERY-FINE-KEY-DATE-LOT-OF-1-FREE-SHIP-1-DAY-AUCTION/224177749031?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649
I’d consider them ONLY if I were collecting a series that contained extremely rare dates or varieties. Not an issue with me, in the pool I swim in.
Dave
Low budget collectors will buy problem coins for key dates in their series. I was more than happy to get a cull 1909 S VDB for my album.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
At an appropriate price level, problem coins can present a good opportunity.
Sometimes a minor issue prevents a coin from straight grading but it still has solid appeal and is available for a discount. Also, if you are filling an album, some spots might best be served with a problem coin (especially for coins that would otherwise be very expensive).
i have several problem coins in my collection, they are rare.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I never waste my time with problem coins.
Typically I’ll buy one for my album if I’m looking to keep costs down. I got a nice large cent that had reverse damage. It was $18 and in a clear VF on the front but some small holes were drilled into the back (like dimples). It’s fine for me as I’m trying to keep the costs down. Some cleaning doesn’t look too bad and can keep the costs down. At this time I won’t buy a slabbed problem coin unless it’s a low cost one to be cracked out.
I have only bought one problem coin. It was a 1838-D $5. I kept it a few years and actually sold it for a profit.
I have some straight-graded coins that were problem coins.
Lance.
Ditto.
Problem coins can be good deals for advanced collectors.
Sometimes a service gets it wrong or is overly critical. There are levels of problems. "Tooled" is pretty serious and is usually the kiss of death; real damage of any type reduces the coin's value substantially. The "cleaned" judgment seems to have become pervasive over a number of years. That varies a lot, from a light wipe or patch of hairlines to real surface damage. There are compensating factors for various problems and issues.
Same here
There are a lot of nice looking buffs with counting machine/wheel mark damage that are hard to see and don’t distract from the look too much. I’ve had my share.
I would buy one as a last resort, under the assumption that so would the next owner.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
for those willing to consider problem coins...is there a 'problem' type you would never consider?
https://pcgs.com/grades ...click the No Grade link
Every coin has a place in a collection. Not everyone's collection, but a collection.
We tend to see a more select group here that has different collecting goals then the
average coin collector out there.
The vast majority of collectors do not have a plastic obsession they have a coin passion.
This is CU, sponsored and paid for by our hosts so this is expected. And many of the
worlds finest coins are housed in their plastic. They do their job well.
But the majority of the worlds coins are raw and accepted for what they are.
I am sure there are many many proud owners of a nice 1909 S VDB that has a scratch, or
a Capped Bust Half with a cleaning. Are they worth the same as a BU example in PCGS housing... of
course not, but they didn't cost the owner as much either.
Kinda like the homeowners in a seaside development saying how they would never live in apartment complex while
the people in the apartments are happy they have a nice place they can afford each month. And the Sam Adams tastes
the same in both places.
In the right circumstances I could see myself owning a problem half disme, small eagle half dollar, or chain cent. (Especially if it was given to me, LOL). I have a couple of others - well-struck 1921 Peace dollars and such. Just don’t pay regular prices for problem coins and there’s no real issue.
It’s quite likely many of your treasures were once in problem holders. There are lots of borderline cases, especially in actual rarities.
Walkers nope, straight grades only please.
Early copper, I’ll take them just about any way I can get them, if the price is commensurate with the value.
I have knowingly bought one coin graded Uncirculated Details Cleaned. If the coin had been harshly cleaned, whizzed, big scratch, graffiti, tooled, holed or any other damage that would have distracted from the coin as struck from the mint, I would not have bought it. Other than that one coin, Details graded coins are a no go for my collection.
The thing about problem coins is some are worse than others. Heavy scratches, graffiti, gouges and corrosion are hard to forgive and will be consistently condemned by TPG graders. OTOH, questionable color/toning and improper cleaning are sometimes judgment calls that can later swing the other way.
Has anyone here not been surprised to find a details-coin that later straight-graded?
A puttied coin detected by a TPG will be rejected. Blatant PVC too. Yet each is easily corrected and will often straight-grade after conservation.
Blindly ignoring "problem coins" never costs you, true. But recognizing those that might straight grade after conservation or simply aging in a folder can be enriching (and very satisfying). Sometimes nothing more is needed than a raw resubmission...another look.
Lance.
Normally, I would not consider a problem coin.... If, however, it was a coin of interest (to me), and ridiculously cheap, then I would likely pick it up... A gold coin with a problem would be an example, below melt...Cheers, RickO
Here’s my abomination, heavily tooled on the obverse to remove deep scratches in the left obverse field.
Before one gets all “judgy “, I’m in it for <$800, and look around and see what’s available for under $3k in the marketplace and auction records.
The coin shown above is my vine & bars '93 cent. My lettered edge '93 cent likewise is in a 'problem' PCGS holder, for environmental damage. But the 'damage' is quite slight and the coin is better than many similar straight graded examples I looked at; and I evaluated a lot of them before choosing it. As much as I don't like the crackout game, that one will definitely be a candidate someday.
Lots of folks buy problem coins as long as the label doesn’t identify the problem. Put the same coin in a details holder and forget it.
I spent about a week last month, off and on, negotiating with the owner and trying to buy a "problem" rare early US coin (a die variety with about 30 known) for my collection.
The coin has solid Fine details and is in a PCGS "Genuine.98" (damaged) holder. The piece looks ok at arm's length, perhaps a light cleaning, some uneven toning, up close has light tooling/graffiti, slightly mashed/smoothed rim area, a couple of scrapes and digs, and other minor issues.
I wanted the coin, at what I considered an appropriate Net grade-price... but what would that be?
As an average PCGS Fine-12, past auctions indicate a value well above $10k. Goods go for about half that, and even a "nice" poor-1 would be worth over a thousand.
Well, I finally offered to buy it as a net FR/AG -2.7 . But Alas, it went to someone else who saw it as a net AG/G - 3.8.
C'est la vie, que sera sera
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Me too.
Can problems be fixed to straight grade? i was recently thinking long and hard on that question on a high value coin, and decided there were too many "ifs" to that and returned the coin.
"Well, I finally offered to buy it as a net FR/AG -2.7 . But Alas, it went to someone else who saw it as a net AG/G - 3.8."
And now is is someone else's problem.
Depends on the problem.
I think someone recently discussed an example where a coin received a Genuine grade, due to PVC residue or something similar. A note from the TPG suggested the coin be resubmitted for conservation, to fix the problem, and then receive a straight grade. Likewise, I’m guessing a puttied gold coin could also be fixed, by removing the substance used to hide the marks.
But any type of major damage, harsh cleaning, dipped copper, etc is just SOL.
I have generally stayed away from problem coins because I know that they will never make me happy. My rule of thumb is if I can’t afford a decent example (a straight graded Fine - 15 is the lowest grade in my type set), I will pass.
I may buy a details graded coin if it's something that I collect, the damage isn't too severe, and it's dirt cheap.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am always amazed at some of the problem coins that sell on ebay. Many times I shake my head when I see 1 sell for reasonably close to a problem free 1 I have listed. It kind of reminds me of when I drove an 18 wheeler. Here's this little widget...I'm thinking who would want that and then see truck load after truck load of them being shipped out. In the grand scheme of things, there is more demand for stuff than many would think.
If I could most certainly make money on it, absolutely.
For certain coins I collect the only extant example may be a holed coin, in that case, yes of course.
Latin American Collection
Lots of “decent” looking slabbed coins which didn’t straight grade are purchased, cracked out, and resold as problem free coins.
Agree. And many of these coins are resubmitted and receive a straight grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I’ve always avoided problem coins. The longer I collect, the more I think that has been a good strategy.
I with bill J , a problem coin is always a problem. if I cant afford a nice example, I just wont own one.
Years ago, when i was chasing key dates, i wouldnt buy problem coins, but sometimes would settle for marginal , mediocre coins , not now, if it aint darn nice, i wont buy it.
I know this is difficult for folks that like rarities and rare varieties and such
"Not ever owning one" is the choice almost all collectors make for coins that are truly rare and very difficult to find for sale in any condition, and prohibitively expensive when Nice. It takes an ability to think reasonably and analytically, and a strong desire for completion of a challenging set, and a willingness to compromise, that is simply too difficult for the majority of eye candy and plastic aficionados
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Dealer friend of mine just bough a vf details, tooled $$50 Humbert. Nice looking coin in hand, obvious tooling under a glass. Flipped if for a nice profit. Every coin deserves love, even problem coins, if you can buy them right.
Tom
Same dealer got a collection in to appraise several years ago that I helped him with. There was a full set of $3 gold, 3 1895 dollars, a dozen 1856 flying eagle cents, and a $4 stella, among others. I'll never forget opening a partial twisted paper roll of what I assumed to be common date indian cents, only to find 11 or12 1856 FEs! And 1 or 2 of the 1895 dollars were loose in a mixed box of coins. All were obvious "problem" coins. The Stella looked like it had been run over by a train, but it was real. Hardest collection I ever saw to appraise, but cool to see. For myself, I would generally prefer not to own a problem coin.
Tom
I can certainly appreciate perfect coins, and for the most part avoid problem coins, but I just enjoy owning interesting old coins of all kinds, warts and all. I'm guessing some of the critics on here never owned a 179X anything - that's their prerogative I suppose.
Here’s a dog that I paid $35 for and owned it for years before selling it to a dealer specialist for $300 for his personal collection. The coin and the counterstamp are both (contemporary) counterfeit, and the damage from the cut is horrendous.
Of course it’s also probably incredibly rare. And I had more enjoyment studying it than I’d ever get from any of my MS66 walkers.
No - do not want problem coins.
No Likey.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/