Update _ old collector, first auction, COVID-19 blues...
Joe_360
Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
9/12: Thanks everyone for the great advise. I contacted the seller about shipping cost and he said (and did) added a couple of bucks in the shipping package.
Also, in talking he asked me if I was interested in anything else that he had, and we made a deal outside of an auction and I paid no additional fees.
Nice guy and nice deals.
Attached is the Morgan CC that I bought. Thanks again, Joe
Original post:
As the title states, I've been a coin collector for may years now, and just attended and made a purchase on my first on-line auction. I am ending up paying about 50% more in fees than what I purchased the coin for - a 1891 CC Morgan...
I contribute this foolish coin activity to COVID-19 blues of no coin shows and closed coin shops.
Question, why does one have to pay a premium on top of the auction purchase? Seems that the sellers should pay fees to sell and market their coins... and as a buyer, who is a guest at the auction, the ones putting out the cash, they should not have to pay extra...
Big learning experience here, unless you are lucky, and their are no educated coin enthusiast attending,, you are bound to pay more than you would at a coin show...
Thanks for reading and comments. Sing the blues...
Comments
Just calculate the additional fees as part of your bid and bid less if you want or need to.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the buyer's premium is 15% then your maximum bid should be 85% of what you think the coin is worth TO YOU.
Hey Joe ...
man I could break into James Marshall Hendrix on that
... if it's your first auction, hopefully you didn't spent years worth of budget, and at least now you know.
*
In the future, that's the first thing you should determine, what are the buyers fees. Not all venues are the same.
In my case, I also have to factor in Sales Tax under $1500. purchases, as the state I live in collects any way they can unless I go over that threshold.
Usually what I do is come up with a divisor to calculate my bids.
For example if I am willing to pay $500. and the Buyers Fee is 20% and the Tax is 8% the math is this;
First the divisor = 1.20 x 1.08
That value is 1.296
Then if $500 is my max out of pocket (less any shipping), I would calculate $500 / 1.296 = $385.
Every time you do this at first it will seem funny, and your bid will seem low ... but unless you are willing to stretch past $500. that's what you HAVE to do.
Again, make sure you adjust for the auction venue first, then the sales tax (if any) to get that divisor right. After that, it's just a quick calculation once you know what YOU are willing to pay.
Good luck next time around and hope this helps!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Actually, to the nearest percent, it should be 87% not 85%. If there’s a 15% buyer’s premium and you want to bid a maximum of $100, a hammer bid of $85 would total $97.75, while a hammer bid of $87 would total $100.05.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Always read the fine print.
Thanks to all for the advice and guidance! First auction much like a first date...
You though you just take her to the movies, than there was the soda, popcorn and M&M's,,,
I only hope when I get the actual coin that it doesn't break my heart...
Joe
A learning experience can be valuable, hope the coin exceeds your expectations which will lessen the sting somewhat.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Don't forget to show us your purchase so we can either make you feel good or ..... Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I also do a little calculus around the fact that I have to travel a few hours to get to a show or shop, which isn’t free. I usually tack it on to a vacation or biz trip, but it is usually at the expense of something else (family time, networking, etc.). With that in mind, I might be willing to go a little more on a coin because I can get it from my desk.
Finally, My budget is pretty low, so $5.50 in shipping is a noticeable percentage of a price that I need to take into consideration. It helps me adjust my bid appropriately.
Sorry your first experience wasn’t great. I just started bidding online and there is definitely a learning curve.
buy your coins on e bay, there are no fees for buyers, unless you live in a state that charges state taxes
As long as the buyer takes them into account, it doesn’t matter whether there are fees or not. Depending upon the circumstances, he might be able to get a better deal elsewhere, even if there are fees.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Buyer fees don't bother me at all, as long as I consider them (and shipping charges) in my bid.
Dave
Yeah, didn't have my think hat on and didn't do the math. x +.15x = 100 so x = 100/1.15 or about 87
close enough for the most part
This is completely false, there are loads of fees the thing is those fees have been loaded into the sellers price so as a buyer you may not see them but you are paying them.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Hi Dave,
That's what does bother me... $11.99 to ship a 1oz coin... How are they shipping for that price... Not very fair IMO.
Thanks
My shipping charge was 9.5% of the total price, too high IMO.
Thanks
buy your coins on e bay, there are no fees for buyers, unless you live in a state that charges state taxes
Yeah, right. The only items I see on FleaBag in my area of interest are recycles from Heritage and Stacks auctions at three to four times the price. No thanks.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
The shipping charge as a % of the value of the coin will typically be higher for lower value pieces. The fee might have been very close to the same, even if the coin had been double or triple the value of yours.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Those fees are why I stopped buying at auctions years ago.... Just not worth it .... Plenty of coins out there...Cheers, RickO
9.5% for shipping is pretty high. Talk to customer service next time, especially since you’re now an established customer. I’ve had good success with letting them know that I want to combine auctions and have them ship together. Once I only won 1 coin and shipping would have been similar to your situation, but I was watching things for the next week. I ended up winning a few the next week, they shipped together and the total shipping cost was basically cut in half. It saved me $5.50 just for asking.
One last thing - check the sites and see if anyone has any deals. I got free shipping on my first week of wins from Great Collections. I don’t know if they are still offering it, but it was nice.
The auction houses will keep pushing fees and charges upward until the bidding public says "NO". They are trying to pull out whatever the market will bear.
Agree Ricko, Damn Corona... Never before and never again... Can't wait for coin shows to be back...
I think your kidding yourself that you would be able to buy that same coin at a show for substantially less, another coin that a dealer acquired from another channel maybe. Just some food for thought, lets say that you would have won it for $125 but instead your favorite show dealer was the highbidder and wins this coin at $120 in this auction because you did not bid. He also has to pay the fees and then he has to tack on his profit percentage. So I really do not see how you think that this coin under those conditions would be less expensive at a show. Many of the coins in dealer's showcases were bought thru auction venues first, then perhaps traded around the floor a time or two where those middlemen costs are added on and then sold to you the end buyer. As I said just food for thought.
And I am not saying that buying at a show is bad just that it is not guaranteed to be less expensive then buying from an auction house even after the fees.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
i agree that most buy it now prices are high, but i buy from no reserve auctions and most of the time the cost is below gray sheet. auction sites like great collections don't offer buyer promos either, e bay offers 5 percent e bucks once in a while as well as coupons, just used a 25 dollar coupon a few hours ago and it was free
I guess it can happen that you get a bad deal at auction because of the COVID 19. I just bought something at a Heritage auction, and I think I would have had to pay more if it was not for the Pandemic. I was a really rare gold medal, that few have probably ever seen. As luck would have it I had seen one like it a few years before, and new just how friging impressive it was in person. I have no doubt that had it been a normal Platinum night auction, held in conjunction with a coin show, with a normal lot viewing. I would either have not gotten it, or I would have had to pay a lot more.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
I have found it almost impossible to buy anything from the major auction houses. If anything, it seems like it might be great time to consign to them. The bids are outrageous, and it seems like the bidders ignore the buyers’ fees completely. I have been higher than the previous high bids paid for a couple lots. The best I finished was third.
The catalog on a Hard Times token that interested me was $800. It sold for over $2,600 including the buyers’ fee. Another piece had a cat $250. It sold for almost $800. A British piece that interested me had previous high result of $6,500. It sold for almost $9,000.
I also collect political items. If you combine the buyers’ fee and my local sales tax, the price I have to pay is almost 36% above the hammer price.
The best strategy is to look at the smaller auction venue or buy the material from dealers on-line you trust.
9/12: Thanks everyone for the great advise. I contacted the seller about shipping cost and he said (and did) added a couple of bucks in the shipping package.
Also, in talking he asked me if I was interested in anything else that he had, and we made a deal outside of an auction and I paid no additional fees.
Nice guy and nice deals.
Attached is the Morgan CC that I bought. Thanks again, Joe
@Joe_360 .... I understand what you are saying. However, I do not have to have a coin....I have my money and can choose where I want to spend it, for what, and how much I am willing to pay. When I used to go to shows, in the PNW, I often found coins I wanted, in the condition I wanted, for very good prices. As the song goes, 'Ya gotta shop around'.... I will not pay auction fees. Cheers, RickO
@ricko, Hence why I stated COVID-19 blues as there are no coins shows at the moment, why I did my first auction... Thanks