Making tons of free money in this market even if you hardly know anything about coins (not an ad)
Azurescens
Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hey folks. So, I was talking to some of my buds the last few weeks of how I've been playing the field. I didn't have a great mentor for coins growing up, and didn't spend THAT much time in coin shops, so a lot of this I've just kinda gone with what works. Again, I'm sorry if this is just day-to-day stuff in a coin shop.
Of course, discussing this and others starting to do this only makes the market stronger for all of us and we all earn more and faster. We all literally have a vested business interest in discussing things like this.
I'm not claiming this is airtight and bulletproof, or that it is flawless, but it is absolutely fantastic for me. It really helps if you DO know anything, or have such amazing resources like PCGS who hosts us here for free. Basic knowledge will still take you very far. I hope maybe this can help some of you.
*
We know one thing, if it's you vs money and you have less, you lose. So how can you position yourself best? Preparing yourself with these advantages is how your smaller amount of money is going to win an auction over someone's larger amount of money. On Ebay, I've noticed psychological intimidation works really well. Powering through item lots and spending that extra money to get someone to stop bidding can be worth it. It can also be pretty risky so use your own discretion. But there's nothing like having ten items of the same thing and by items five and six you've discouraged everyone else and it's free money. Crush their dreams. Take the free gold. You absolutely need to read the other bidders right and be ready to crush those bidders nuclear bids a few times. show them the door on the right item at the right hour and clean up. watch out for shills. Stay able to afford your biggest of mistakes.
Other things that put you in a better position are, for example, mis-listed items and misused terms "reverse DDO", "double die" etc.) Save some searches with quarter Indian in Washington quarters. Half eagles in Franklins. Set up phone alerts so you get a text whenever a cheap BIN is listed in the wrong category. Then walk (laugh, run, whatever) to the bank. It goes beyond crossing categories and into the most popular of typos and wrongly used terms. You can figure those out (sorry).
Dollar Cost Average (DCA). Maximize your discounted combined shipping. Sure, 6 bucks shipping sucks when buying a $30 coin. But if you're buying ten then hey, you're positioned better than everyone else right out the gate. They're bidding with that shipping in mind, but it's literally something you can forget and power through and bid accordingly. Buying a hundred? Even better, because you can throw that wholesaler some money for all the work they're putting in so you have coins. You can crush dreams even harder the more you're in. Eat it real bad? But got a stack of 50 you got in on? Throw the piles together find a way to move on without working for nothing.
Eating it. Sometimes, it's just worth nuking that bid over and over and crush everyone else. For example, I overpaid for a 2017-W and 2015-W eagle today but I don't care because they shipped free, and the amount I gain from completing the set far outweighs the little bit extra. They paid for themselves and made me more money just by buying them and doing what I was gonna do anyway (list and sell). Find ways to do this with everything, all the time. Keep looking forward because the market is going wild and it doesn't matter.
He who controls the gold makes the rules. Okay. Well, what about he who controls and corners one specific area of the market? You get to ask whatever you want. Of course, be ready to sit on them or push them to another pile. Maybe the series has 5000 new items listed the day you get yours. Why waste your time working hard to lose money? Set them aside. In this market, they'll make you money next week. Just dont go too heavy if your wallet can't handle it, and be careful with some of this stuff because it can be hard to exercise some restraint if you're buying pieces you like.
I bought four Silver SP70 Rand today because the shipping was free and they're a profit if I sold them today for their going rate less fees (got in at 60, they're listed for 75..100..150. I can work with that). I knew I was already in a stronger position than anyone else with eyes on it just from combined discounted shipping alone. There are some buyers who will come by and swipe those 6 or 8 or 10 overpriced BIN. Don't ask me. Important to note the ships free part: I never have to consider that $4.50 +/- fees blahblahablaba into the price. It's just my coin. I can forget everything else. I love removing scattered variables like that because it helps keep me on my toes, and every little bit easier. Embrace what you can, when you can.
Then, double down again on that. These four coins have hardly been around the last few months. I get to choose what they go for and I can even buy out competition just to own the market share. I have a fifth and sixth right now. They'll all sell together pretty much after they touch my fingertips. I'll just buy whatever ones are listed by other people and reevaluate how much money I want.
Even if I pay more, I own the market - at least, long enough to do what I gotta do. The markets are moving so fast that I don't have to corner it for a week or two and work hard. Seems like half a day or an evening has been long enough for many to cycle through. If I do it right it rains diamonds. Usually it's just a few bucks. I had some ms70 silver eagles that needed a week or two until they were baked to perfection. It happens. Keep yourself north of "loss" and you are winning.
Sometimes it's more advantageous to move the coin sideways and break even just for the good feedback and PayPal legitimacy. Or, take that small loss to rustle up funds for an item that will make you even more money. Dont let yourself get stuck because it's your own fault. But dont worry... hang on a week or two if you screw up bad, and those losses will be gains. Just try to learn something along the way (optional).
Never work for nothing. ever, I mean, in life too. But also this. Find ways to remove (not mitigate) those situations. Some situations are worth reducing the likelihood of something happening. Other situations are worth re-evaluating everything to get them out of your specific groove. There is always a benefit.
If the market is suddenly flooded your items become a loss or just sit there doing nothing... You had figured the $25 eagles would sell for $40 this week but someone dumped a truckload for $35. Set them aside. The market is so good that it will fix your mistake for you, so long as dont intervene and work against your best interests. Find ways like these to turn crap situations into free money. This is all about forward-thinking positivity and a holistic, flexible approach.
Buy Joe's coin to get him off the market. If he has even more cheap stuff, buy him out and list it next week and you're making the money he would've made. If you really think you can get in his head, list similar stuff for significantly less, ending at similar times, and let the attrition do the work for you. Please do not use this superpower for the forces of evil.
Stack piles like this that have more than one advantage. Whether it be you're in better or they're more rare. Diversify. Prepare for Very Bad Situations. They'll happen. For example, I just got a bunch of gold back that I was sure was low or mid MS. A lot hit high AU and some details. I'm just gonna crack them out and put them in jewelry of similar colors and styles and make even more money than selling the two items separately. It doesn't matter that the grading fees are a loss, as they've been figured in since the beginning, which leaves me more flexible. You need to discover and foster "outs". The more options your stack has, the more options you have, the more money you're making.. and buying and making..
Sunk cost fallacy. Bidders fear they're losing a deal so much so that they overpay at auction. For a good idea on the going rate, add a little bit to the highest BIN. The market is going up, so that number is even higher, and it is more free money. It's not a half bad litmus test. Sort by ending soonest, subtract a few bucks from the most recent and most popular auction, you just found the best BIN to sell at that will make you the most.
Risk. You get paid to risk your resources. Greater the risk, greater the reward. Take on all the risk but mitigate it on the way down. Move some of your pieces to other piles, and depending on what you want, make plans and stay flexible. Series and denominations are waxing and waning fast, so sitting on something generally doesn't even take a week (not exaggerating).
That being said, saved searches. Canada 999 gold brings up way different stuff than 5 maple gold 9999. That's for you guys to figure out yourselves. I recommend multiple devices that are always around. Do smart things like choose the right times. Look for the listings with errors. Is it worth $100 hoping that the title/picture end up being gold? I mean... I've had it go both says but when it works its great. Position yourself as to have that opportunity at a moment's notice, or again, one on the way and one in hand and one on Ebay.
The human brain is a master of pattern recognition even if you think you suck at it. It's how we perceive reality, recognize our children and strangers, and our body can even use it to override our thoughts and kick in our instincts. It is powerful, so start paying attention and use it. It's how we make judgments of perception and tell who a person is. It also affects how we perceive things like time. We are naturally good at it even if you think you arent. Comb through 50 saved searches, 100, 200. Eventually, even if the images are different, you can literally scroll and absorb just enough to matter to do it quick and hardly invest time. It doesnt take long if you do it enough.
Mitigating even MORE risk. The mail sucks. A lost package could shut the whole thing down. Position yourself as to where you have inventory, have stuff coming in, and generally keep all your eggs in separate baskets, but keep your hands in all the pies. Be ready to go dark and hold, and be ready to liquidate. The more you can stay on your toes the quicker you can dance around problematic situations.
Guy Who Wants His Coin. I'm often this guy so others must exist. There's just some coins that people will BIN whatever. Figure out what they are and list them when there's none around, or, as noted above, buy the competition just to crush them and make your money faster, than waiting on their cheaper item to sell so that yours does. Again, series and coins are waxing and waning so fast, it's not even a week before the market is effectively reset and shuffled back around. And its been that way for most stuff for a bit. Double down on this by listing them for way too much while hitting as many categories as possible. If someone pays, holy moly. If not, hundreds of millions of free eyes on your username. Ideally, keeping a listing in a category should be as easy as a widget per category.. I'm just working with what I got right now, and in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to have overpriced stuff to get eyes, just sales. Working on it.
You Only Live Once (YOLO). Be aware I recommend this to nobody. But, approaching this with a YOLO attitude but being able to cast aside interruptions or roadblocks makes you all that much more money. Be flexible. Be ready to accept loss and face the fact you made a crap decision but turn it on its back, or double down buy 40 more and lower your DCA, or, suddenly stop picking up pieces and go dark and hold. It'll all be worth more next week.
There are no mistakes just bad decisions. Stop making them. Your goal is to turn these into a positive thing. Just don't chase anything too far, because there will be more coins next week. There will be nicer coins next week, and they will be worth more next week. You have coins coming in and coins selling right now that are worth more than last week. Always be prepared for quick self evaluation and honesty. If it's going south don't run with it, stop wasting any brain space period and get back to scanning saved searches or buying stuff.
Perception. Invest the $20 in the jewelry tray and white cotton gloves. Spellcheck. Preview Listing.
I've reserved two posts below for some pics. Not sure how far I'm gonna take this. So I hope you enjoyed.
Edit: typos, tense, the usual..
Comments
This post is reserved for photos.
That may be the longest post I have seen on this forum. Good luck with your 'strategy'... Cheers, RickO
I think that the chances of "making tons of free money in this market even if you hardly know anything about coins" are far less likely than the chances of a financial disaster.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld I wish I could agree and LOL at the same time.
I'll address 1 bit from above that I remedied years go on ebay about crushing the competition in a way. Back in the early days when you could see everything, including who the hi bidder was I had a guy following me and just using my work and out bidding me on pretty much everything I bid on.
Then I came up with a plan. How many remember when Heritage had that huge sale on ebay(losts of conspiracy theories around that). Well there were tons of nice coins right up my alley. So I decided I would bid the absolute highest amount I felt I could possibly sell the coins for. He outbid me on every coin to the tune of thousands of dollars.
Guess What? He never out bid me again after that!
Probably some good advice in there but there are enough conflicting scenarios to get someone into trouble if they misread or misunderstand something.
I am not so sure that the lure of "free money" is as important as the advice to take advantage of opportunities.
It may be longer than all your posts strung together...
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
To be honest, buying something a few bucks back of avg BIN and listing for 99 cents next week is the easiest thing in the world.
The rest is just cuz I like you guys.
I’m gunna stick to my day job & occasionally buy coins for fun.
"Buying something a few bucks back of avg BIN" might be relatively easy. Though I suspect that there might be a few other things in the world that are easier
).
It's the part about making tons of money, listing for 99 cents, that can be more difficult. Numerous posters who know a great deal about coins and the market haven't found that to be nearly as wonderful as you think it is.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For the most part, I liked the read above
How do you make a small fortune in the coin market? Start with a large fortune!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Does that mean there were a lot of errors?
Free money = Red flags ... IMO.
I don’t read long ones, sorry but an interesting fact I found out the other day Marc Bolan of T. Rex real name was Mark Feld. No not the same guy.
I liked crushing the competition part, bold
The most fundamental rule of ANY business is to understand your market. I'm really not sure what his point is.
Given the number of eBay sellers on this forum, we might as well rename the forum The Billionaire Boys Club if the OP's thesis is correct.
Back in 1997, when I started on eBay, I would start auctions at 99 cents. There was a tiny fraction of the number of listings that are currently there and you could be sure that a Morgan dollar collector could peruse all new listings and all ending listings for a given day and NOTHING was missed. Now, if you list an 1885-O UNC Morgan $ for 99 cents, there is a non-zero chance that it gets missed among the thousands of listings and sells for $10 or less.
I have had since great scores on ebay when a seller started the auction at .99 or 1.00 and no other bidders showed up.
You have to really be sure of your market to buy for real money and resell that way. But, obviously some are able to do it.
I'm not an ebay seller, and am rarely a buyer, but a lot of what is up there makes sense with the (repeated) caveat that the market is wild and everything will be worth more next week. If you're trying this strategy and have early success, get your money out quick and play with house money or money you're not going to depend on.
Is there a coin bubble right now? I don't know, I hope not, but when something is going up and up and up, timing the exit of your money is crucial. Even if you miss the top.
Thanks for sharing your strategies and philosophy for success; if they have all worked well for you then all is good.
I do wince when I read "Making tons of free money in this market even if you hardly know anything about coins". There is no free ride. I would have to say you do need to know your market.... and better have some good knowledge about coins. Otherwise... with fakes, scams, etc., and not having knowledge in this area... you can get eaten alive.
"Buying something a few bucks back of avg BIN" and then listing at .99 cent start.... Been there and done that. Many times works out ok, and many times not. Don't forget you have the ebay fees that will likely eat up your perceived 'profit'. And as mentioned before, starting at .99 cents can turn out a big loss for you, even though you may have snagged the item previously a few bucks back of avg BIN.
"Perception. Invest the $20 in the jewelry tray and white cotton gloves. Spellcheck. Preview Listing." Sometimes the simplest things have the best rewards. I have found this to be very helpful for auctions. I don't use white gloves, but avoid photographing coins in my hand, and try to ensure photos are of sufficient details and representative of the coins.
I just crushed my competition sitting on the back porch reading all of this!😎
...
Those "new" mosquitoes suck
ya, the ones with the little white stripes are not native to our area, but just showed up in the last few years. Sneaky little bastards. The go in low.
I just called the city about my neighbors "green pool"
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's Cary Grants' , comment. Buy this from Joe.
There are several sellers who list nothing but 99 cent auctions whose listings I check regularly. I make good money buying a number of those coins every week and putting them in my eBay store. Most recent sale: paid $4, sold for $45. Not all my auction purchases provide that margin of profit, but they all make me money. So- keep those 99 cent auctions coming, I'm all for them. But just as a buyer, not a seller.
Uh oh, this is taking an ugly turn.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Yes I see it coming!
I don't know what they are or who this person is. Of course, I don't know you either. It's all public to me.
Note to self: Never PM with TwoSides2aCoin
Note to the world. Here I am.
I don't know. I know there is a forum "etiquette", but why does the Code of Silence need to extend to insults? It's not like 2sides hacked into private emails or those messages contained any private information.
If you voluntarily send me a message, why don't I have the right to do with it as I please?
Actually, the lesson in the last century used to be "never put into writing anything you wouldn't want made public". Of course, that used to be on actual paper, but still...
for me it's not a complex set of ideas as stated above
it's more of ok will this sell at that price or no, do i need to drop the price, are my pics good enough to show the coin, what is the demand for such a coin
been selling and collecting since 2003 and this tons of free money is why so many come into coins thinking it's easy street and find out it's not and bail
NOTHING IN THE WORLD IS FREE EVERYTHING HAS A PRICE
question is are people willing to pay that price for that select item? that is the real world in your face blunt issue we all face or have faced before
COINS FOR SALE, IN LINK BELOW
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCJYQg9x5sPJiCBc9
I have actually wanted to talk with you about the coin business as I believe I started my online coin business about the same time you started your B&M coin business and wanted to see how things have worked out for you.
Now I would not want to discuss the coin business with you via a PM as it could become public
Not to spam but a coin shop has a phone number. You can Google.
And I have a sign that reads " I'm almost thinking about it ".
I bought this for $120. Old listing of 1881 O/S, when it was called an O/S. People passed it because it was an ANACS albeit old. PCGS 1881 O/O VAM 5 MS64 are listed for $1000+, which is probably a bit high. I could see trying to crack and submit then resell for a few hundred profit.
To really make money in the coin business you need upward market momentum - metals advancing, bids in sheet going up - sort of like OL push. Without that it’s smashmouth buy / low sell high ball. Sure knowledge and experience helps - the more you have the better your QB on the field. Being able pick apart online or bourse for what will sell is key. One has to find an angle or area which fits their financial resources / skill set.
Sounds to me like all that "Free" money costs a lot of time, effort, and risk.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Nothing is really free, especially freedom itself.
It has to be earned, and protected.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
You have a lot of great points, though.
buying something a few bucks back of avg BIN and listing for 99 cents next week is the easiest thing in the world.
and when it's time to sell, there's undoubtedly a lot fewer suckers wanting to bid moon money than there are thousands of "lowball bid opportunists" such as yourself.
but hey, the market always needs arbitragers such as yourself. good luck.
I knew it would happen.
Sounds like a plan @Azurescens
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
In the words of Robert Heinlein in one of my favorite sci-fi books:
Gospodin," he said presently, "you used an odd word earlier--odd to me, I mean..."
"Oh, 'tanstaafl.' Means ~There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.' And isn't," I added, pointing to a FREE LUNCH sign across room, "or these drinks would cost half as much. Was reminding her that anything free costs twice as much in long run or turns out worthless."
"An interesting philosophy."
"Not philosophy, fact. One way or other, what you get, you pay for."
Latin American Collection
If the OP wants to crush the competition, and his business plan is making him "tons of free money", why would said OP want to share his lucrative plan with us (likely competition)?
Doesn't add up.
Here's my 2c.
Bragging about making tons of free money = losing a ton and a half of money (not free, by the way, especially when you're losing it) in the future.
Maybe thread title change to... Pennies From Heaven
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think the first step in crushing your competition is to not let your competition know what you're doing.
Ummmm......... yeah.
Yikes. Those PMs are hateful. Some people have been banned for less