1811/0 1c vs vise vs straight grade - updated
LanceNewmanOCC
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what do you think? - update - NGC G6 BN S-286
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Comments
If THAT received a straight grade, I will remove every coin in my possession from that TPG's holder. The vise job is obvious (mirror-image letters), as are other issues (especially that intentional, huge scratch--done in segments, rather than with one fluid motion, and a second obv. scratch that looks intentional too). The obverse rim also has a fin (PMD, possibly a result of the vise job). Pray tell, what does the reverse look like? After the PMD, I suspect it wound up in the ground for a while.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
reverse added and i hope you're being rhetorical.
i've seen stuff in all TPG holders i've not liked and/or disagreed with but those things are the exceptions, not the rule.
i'm in the pmd camp but we'll see what others say before i do the reveal.
I vote vise-job.
It's incuse, and only on the highest level.
A flip over strike would leave a lot more detail (if I'm thinking correctly).
A previous cent stuck in the obverse die would have created two reverse images,
the "obverse" being incuse, but with no obverse portrait details (I think...where's Fred?)
Not a vice job.
Some sort of environmental damage. Corroded while in contact with another coin, or something like that.
It appears to me to be acid-etched while in contact with another piece and when they were separated this is what was obtained. My gut feeling is that it was not done intentionally, but was a found coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The coin was probably damaged early in its circulation life by being used, along with another large cent, as a piece of protective metal for some part that the worker did not want to strike directly. The coin was then just spent normally and became lost. After spending some time in the ground the coin was found and eventually found its way into someone's coin collection because it was an early date. The coin is not an "error".
Possible fused/corroded together with another, and a pry tool was used to separate them, definite PMD and I don't see how that obtained a straight grade.
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I agree with the 'fused, corroded, separated' theory....Cheers, RickO
i like the fused theory. the scratch made me think someone separated them causing it.
glad you all kept posting as i completely forgot about this thread.
op will be updated shortly.
I cannot explain the reversed and incused lettering, wreath and rim, other than to say that I am sure it is post-Mint.
I can imagine some sort of hypothetical situation whereby two coins were laid against each other in a moist, corrosive environment, where a galvanic effect developed in those spots where the high points of the other coin (the lettering, wreath and rim) came near to the surface of this coin, and the galvanic effect etched the surface of this coin. I am not saying that this was what happened, just that I could see it as a hypothetical explanation.
Friday afternoon coin???
was it net graded like the EAC collectors tend to do?
I've seen coins like this, owned coins like this, etc. and still can't believe it straight graded. I can see accepting the damage on a 1793, 1799, 1804...but not one like this. Yes EAC'ers would net grade it, but I'd still think most would say it shouldn't straight grade.
I'm certainly not a "copper guy" but it sure looks like it should have bagged for corrosion or ED.
That coin getting a straight grade is the same to me as coin #1 getting the same grade as coin #2 in this thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1041634/hypothetical-these-2-coins-grade-the-same-and-are-priced-the-same-which-would-you-choose#latest
The large cent should not have straight graded.
That is the single worst coin I have ever seen in a straight grade holder by NGC or PCGS.
Over graded for sure, but since it’s only G-6, I won’t say it’s the worst I have seen. Still, Good 6 says it’s a choice Good, and it’s at least 4 points below that.
Wow! Interesting comment. The 1811/0 does look like a mistake. I could see the planchet quality getting a pass...maybe...but not the damage (one cent and scratch) and not the reverse "red" either. As for the barber halves, you have TomB, CRO and Mark Feld, among others, all known for having a great eye for originality, all choosing coin 1, which to me is clearly superior, over an obviously dipped white coin, and you not only choose coin 2, but you compare it to the coin above. I could possibly see your comment applying to ease of sale, because the market still likes "white" coin, but not to anything else. To each his own, to be sure, but there is no comparison to be made here. Ironically, this will actually draw me to your table at the next show, rather than away from it.
Tom
I appreciate your comments. Looks like I will have to bring my coin to the next show or 2 or 3 depending on how many here can attend. All the biggies who have commented haven't seen either coin in hand. Have you read all the comments in the other thread? I would wager if given the choice side by side very few would choose coin 1. Now...how to get coin 1 to sit beside coin 2 at a show? I have seen enough coins like #1 photographed to be over 90% sure that coin is fairly dark(not to mention enough marks to knock it down). None of these comments would be made about coin #2 if it was a Morgan Dollar. Are these experts saying a Barber Half can not have the qualities I say it has? I've been doing this for over 50 years...probably 30 on the dealer side of the table. I trust my judgement over any of the so called experts here!
I could see a buried cache and the chisel line that separated the two coins.
Are you replying to this thread or a different one?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
LOL! Just defending my comment here!