I wish everything had provenance
philographer
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Was reading that Virgil Brand had a collection of 368,000+ coins. I can’t imagine a provenance having much meaning when attached to that many coins.
Even Bass had a bunch of junk in his collection. Who knows where the coins came from, and who cares about the provenance. Obviously, he just spent and spent and spent.
With that said, the other side of my brain is: I actually want to know where most coins came from. They don’t have to be famous names. I’m thinking:
• From a bank hoard in Europe
• From a small collection handed down through three generations of a Rhode Island family
• From a treasury bag released in 1964
• Picked up at a coin show in Switzerland in 1962
• From the family of a bank president who presided over xx bank 1928-1952
• From the cabinet collection of John Doe, New England collector from 1852-1879
I love the idea of being connected to those who came before us.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Comments
Pedigrees are interesting and informative, from a historical aspect, and certainly add to the cool factor.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
And there you have it.
You forgot the parking lot
Furthest “down” I will go is “came with a pack of smokes from a vending machine” for the 1955 double die!
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Or a 200 year old safe.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
It depends on the coin.
I like to think of this as the Brand-Morelan dollar
I like pedigrees, too. I have a few, and they’re not among the nicest stuff in my collection (which probably isn’t close to average for this board).
Maybe one day there’ll be ShaunBC5 Collection pedigree.
Only if you're a new error collector.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
The “will straight grade when hell freezes over” collection.
Technically, it is the Brand - Neil - Carter - Mr. Eureka - Contursi - Cardinal - Morelan Dollar.....but who's really paying attention, anyway??
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
It's great Bruce is using his name now. It would be strange for that coin to have the "Trade Dollar Nut" provenance
Pedigrees do not interest me....I know many like them and it is certainly a valid collecting niche. Now, if I could get a coin directly from the estate of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin... then I would be interested...but 'collectors who once owned' does not interest me at all. Cheers, RickO
I have just a few items pedigreed to major collections. One is a Great Britain gold sovereign from the Eliasberg collection. As a coin it's nothing special (in terms of it being a WOW coin like some of his others), so I think it's more that he had it, rather than necessarily really studied it. Still, it's neat to know that it was part of a great collection. I also have a note from the John J Ford collection, and it's a nice enough piece (even though not super expensive) that I could imagine he gave it at least some thought, even if it wasn't a major item in his collection. I like the idea that that note was good enough for a collection of that caliber.
That said, while history is neat, I think pedigrees really come into play when there is historical meaning/context--an important collection/collector, an intriguing find, etc. I'm not sure that just knowing John Doe 1 sold the coin to John Doe 2 who then sold it to me really does much if they're both relatively unimportant people.
Of course, I'd be happy to sell you something from the Airplanenut collection--at a healthy premium, of course. Pedigree included.
Every coin you order directly from United States mint does.
I don't own a lot of pedigreed coins but I did manage to pick up this coin yesterday.
1824 O-106 plated in Overton editions 2-5.
I just ran across this again and I need to say that I think Virgil Michael Brand has one of the most amazing pedigrees! The number of amazing coins he had is mouthwatering! Sure, others have a lot of coins but Brand's coins are through the roof. Not sure why I didn't post this before but here's my Virgil Brand tracking thread
Virgil Brand, the most underrated coin collector of all time or "The King of Coin Collectors"?
I’m a provenance man myself
Latin American Collection
Known history dated back decades in some case 🤔
I fondly remember how RB would have hissy fits over the word pedigree, and when it turned violent, you'd see a blur of old men slapping each other's glasses off and mussing up their comb overs
it was as good as the forum ever got really
edit: except for the Anaconda meltdown - now that was riveting and inspirational
Provenance adds to the coin, maybe not monetarily - but certainly interest wise. At least for me.
This thread may help:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/949479/pedigree-vs-provenance
How about The Big E ? 😎
It would be great to track the pedigree / provenance for every coin, owner and sale.
For The Big E, the question will always be how much of his collection was from Clapp. It would be great to have an answer and ability to search on that.
Nice coin! Here's the TrueView
For me, every coin journey is an adventure worth noting. And our minds get to ponder the implications of being in touch with the past. Peace Roy
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I can't agree more. I love farm fresh coins with history all over them. From holes to counter stamps, and all the hands that have left their unwritten story on them. Even a parking lot find is cool. Coin collecting is still COOL!
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
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They all do, most are just a mystery.
I agree to some extent. I think it would be cool to get a few tidbits of history for some of my circulated Carson city coins - was one of them included in a bank robbery? Did they see the slots of Vegas or stay weeks in the covered wagon riding the Oregon Trail?
Yes I often think about this too... I have a super worn 1890 CC that I’m sure has some good stories if only it could talk.
I don’t feel the same so much about the uncirculated ones - I recently had a common date 83 cc graded and it got a MS64 - which I was really pleased about then felt maybe I should have kept it raw. Once graded and slabbed it is somehow no longer “free”... if that makes any sense.
In time, most will have some sort of pedigree. With so much data warehousing and the inevitability of strong AI being able to correlate later appearances of the same coin in new holders, it is just going to be part of the hobby. We will also see artificially intelligent systems essentially cherrypicking at an industrial level. If such prospects don't sound like fun, enjoy the hobby as it is today.
"....
While I have several tracking back to the 1800's this one in my favorite. From my Uncle "circa 1959 " During the depression he delivered eggs from my grand parents farm to area residents and when they had trouble paying their tab, he would ask if they had any old coins laying that he would accept payment ... This 1847 1 cent was one those ,,, not sure how much credit he would give them but I would guess 20 or 25 cents worth .
History is amazing to me. Not just in /with coins but in general. Shipwreck coins, those discovered/found in buried tins, and many other examples (perhaps the subject of a separate thread?)
By the way, its doubtful many CC coins would have been on the Oregon Trail as the CC mint didn't open until some years later.
I'm collector/numismatist that focuses on pedigree and provenance of U.S. Mint issues awarded by a sitting POTUS (at the time of award). Here is one example.
First Day of Issue 1971-S Eisenhower silver dollar awarded by President Nixon
