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Ever see a coin graded XF 45+

RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I have never heard of this grade before last week when I received a silver colonial coin
back from PCGS graded XF 45+.
I was informed this grade was initiated
10 years ago when plus grading started.
I’m confused, does this mean the coin is XF 47
or AU 48 ?
I understand ms 63+ to ms67+ but XF 45+

What do you think ?

Comments

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've got 2 Barber Halves graded XF45+.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a 44-O $5 in 45+ CAC

    Latin American Collection

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020 4:38AM

    @RedCopper said:
    I have never heard of this grade before last week when I received a silver colonial coin
    back from PCGS graded XF 45+.
    I was informed this grade was initiated
    10 years ago when plus grading started.
    I’m confused, does this mean the coin is XF 47
    or AU 48 ?
    I understand ms 63+ to ms67+ but XF 45+

    What do you think ?

    I think 47 is (way) too low for a plus. And maybe 48, also. But 49 or 49+ works. ;)

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a 1899-P half graded XF+ a few tears ago

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I seen one on EBay.

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think:
    1. A + grade means the coin has exceptional eye appeal.
    2. If number 1 is true, then it could apply to any grade.
    3. I'd like to see a picture of your silver colonial coin.

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My last submission had an XF45+ on it. I did not know they used the plus grades for extra fine coins.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020 5:10AM

    @RedCopper said:
    What do you think ?

    I think it's stupid. They need to pick the damn grade.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MidLifeCrisis said:

    1. I'd like to see a picture of your silver colonial coin.

    I would also like to see it :)@RedCopper

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree with ms70. Enough is enough. PL+ or PL* or XF* or ...........and the beat goes on.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From PCGS :)
    .
    "Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.

    Only XF-45 through MS/PR-68 are eligible for Plus grades. Numerically, this includes 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, & 68.

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020 5:47AM

    @1630Boston said:
    From PCGS :)
    .
    "Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade.

    Only XF-45 through MS/PR-68 are eligible for Plus grades. Numerically, this includes 45, 50, 53, 55, 58, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, & 68.

    I don't think TPG's should opine about what's eye appealing and what's not. It's a very strong personal preference that's evidenced right here on this forum.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,801 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In a hundred years the condition of the coin will be incredibly important and the grade assigned today totally irrelevant.

    Just a guess.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    In a hundred years the condition of the coin will be incredibly important and the grade assigned today totally irrelevant.

    Just a guess.

    In a 100 years, robots will be grading coins and we'll all be dead. Just sayin'. ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020 7:09AM

    Here’s a 1857 45+ $20

  • drddmdrddm Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here’s another 45+ CBH


  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How should one price an XF45+ coin? Would if be half way between an XF45 and an AU50?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,422 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    How should one price an XF45+ coin? Would if be half way between an XF45 and an AU50?

    To the moon!!

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,389 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe a couple submissions may have gotten that grade. Thinking they were capped bust halves, if memory serves.

  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to think mine is a 49. CAC approved. ;)

    pcgs.com/SetRegistry/half-cents/lincoln-cents-specialty-sets/lincoln-cents-basic-set-colorless-matte-proof-1909-1916/publishedset/102180
    https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MidLifeCrisis said:
    I think:
    1. A + grade means the coin has exceptional eye appeal.
    2. If number 1 is true, then it could apply to any grade.
    3. I'd like to see a picture of your silver colonial coin.

    @MidLifeCrisis said:
    I think:
    1. A + grade means the coin has exceptional eye appeal.
    2. If number 1 is true, then it could apply to any grade.
    3. I'd like to see a picture of your silver colonial coin.

    But plus grades aren't jusdt about exceptinal eye-appeal. They ar e> @PerryHall said:

    How should one price an XF45+ coin? Would if be half way between an XF45 and an AU50?

    Among other things, it depends upon the date, the type and the value in AU50. There is no easy formula. Some plus coins bring insignificant premiums, while others bring very large ones.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've had one grade that so far. 1904 S Barber Dime.

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms70 said:

    @RedCopper said:
    What do you think ?

    I think it's stupid. They need to pick the damn grade.

    :D:D:D come on @ms70 , don't hold back ... tell us what you really think!

    ... and for what it's worth, I agree with you!!


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • highwayman1highwayman1 Posts: 107 ✭✭✭

    45+ means crack it out and send it FL for AU. 😂🤣

    "He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver, nor he who loves abundance, with increase. This also is vanity.
    When goods increase, they increase who eat them -- so what profit have the owners, except to see them with their eyes?"
    "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all.
    For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil."
    "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."
    http://www.youtube.com/user/alohabibleprophecy/videos

  • RonBRonB Posts: 636 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is the only XF I have that doesn't have a number..

    Collector of Classic US Coins
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one might qualify as XF-45+.

    PCGS XF-45 w/gold CAC

    Got Crust....y gold?
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Latin American Collection

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:

    @ms70 said:

    @RedCopper said:
    What do you think ?

    I think it's stupid. They need to pick the damn grade.

    :D:D:D come on @ms70 , don't hold back ... tell us what you really think!

    ... and for what it's worth, I agree with you!!

    I think it’s more practical and realistic than using 11 different numerical grades to distinguish mint state and proof coins.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good morning Mark. @MFeld

    While that may be true, the subjectivity and often times inconsistency of the grading spectrum, whether it be nuances between a 64 and a 65 (or any other MS grade), or the differences in the "more technical" grades of AU and below will always lead to debate.

    For what it's worth, I think that debate is healthy, but I also see that the technical grades are being skewed. Is a 45 a 45, or is it a 53 that has a scrape, mark, spot, or area that can't allow for a grader to call it a 53 that day, but it's not a bag, so it's a market 45? If so then is the true 45, without issue and reasonable looks a plus?

    It can be argued that the added pluses or stars, help further that debate, but in the MS / PR grades, then we are at decimal grading effectively, correct? Should we go farther there? Is an effective half-point enough? Is the plus sufficient to determine the differences? If that's the case, then why not just go all the way and use 1 through 59 for circulated?

    Sans that, we have effectively split every market grade at least once. Maybe not technically, but for what someone deems "marketability". Adding in the opinion of the opinion with a sticker of some sort, and the grading spectrum becomes a more dizzying array of opinions and subjectivity to the less advanced.

    Let's play the old cover the grade game and see if we can put the widgets back in their shells, with all the right modifiers to boot. You know the game. I'm sure you're better than many at it. I use widgets because some coins are recognizable, especially to photographic memories.

    Finally, I also think what is considered premium is different to different people, surely graders as well, and so these additional modifiers (the plus or the star, then later the sticker or the bean) tend to compile opinion atop opinion.

    In the end it is human nature for most to immediately want to fit the peg in the hole, instead of looking at the peg without too much prejudice.

    In essence, sometimes we need to stop and enjoy the coin for the coin.

    I know there's a lot of money to be made from opinion and subjectivity.

    I also don't disagree with all of it, because I remember the end of the wild west.

    Some of it though ... well I think some of it is too much (at least for me). And overall, I don't always feel that is in the collectors best interest.

    Of course, I could be wrong.

    Todd


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have one, I think it’s really a 50-.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • skier07skier07 Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2020 7:17AM

    @CharlotteDude said:
    This one might qualify as XF-45+.

    PCGS XF-45 w/gold CAC

    That looks like a 50-53 to me. Nice coin by the way.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Good morning Mark. @MFeld

    While that may be true, the subjectivity and often times inconsistency of the grading spectrum, whether it be nuances between a 64 and a 65 (or any other MS grade), or the differences in the "more technical" grades of AU and below will always lead to debate.

    For what it's worth, I think that debate is healthy, but I also see that the technical grades are being skewed. Is a 45 a 45, or is it a 53 that has a scrape, mark, spot, or area that can't allow for a grader to call it a 53 that day, but it's not a bag, so it's a market 45? If so then is the true 45, without issue and reasonable looks a plus?

    It can be argued that the added pluses or stars, help further that debate, but in the MS / PR grades, then we are at decimal grading effectively, correct? Should we go farther there? Is an effective half-point enough? Is the plus sufficient to determine the differences? If that's the case, then why not just go all the way and use 1 through 59 for circulated?

    Sans that, we have effectively split every market grade at least once. Maybe not technically, but for what someone deems "marketability". Adding in the opinion of the opinion with a sticker of some sort, and the grading spectrum becomes a more dizzying array of opinions and subjectivity to the less advanced.

    Let's play the old cover the grade game and see if we can put the widgets back in their shells, with all the right modifiers to boot. You know the game. I'm sure you're better than many at it. I use widgets because some coins are recognizable, especially to photographic memories.

    Finally, I also think what is considered premium is different to different people, surely graders as well, and so these additional modifiers (the plus or the star, then later the sticker or the bean) tend to compile opinion atop opinion.

    In the end it is human nature for most to immediately want to fit the peg in the hole, instead of looking at the peg without too much prejudice.

    In essence, sometimes we need to stop and enjoy the coin for the coin.

    I know there's a lot of money to be made from opinion and subjectivity.

    I also don't disagree with all of it, because I remember the end of the wild west.

    Some of it though ... well I think some of it is too much (at least for me). And overall, I don't always feel that is in the collectors best interest.

    Of course, I could be wrong.

    Todd

    Todd, don’t get me wrong - I’m not for any further attempts at grading refinement. I think we already have more than is practical for purposes of objectivity and consistency.

    I wish there were an option to “love” and not just “like” a post. If there were, I would have chosen it for yours.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fixed it for ya! :# > @MFeld said:

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Good morning Mark. @MFeld

    While that may be true, the subjectivity and often times inconsistency of the grading spectrum, whether it be nuances between a 64 and a 65 (or any other MS grade), or the differences in the "more technical" grades of AU and below will always lead to debate.

    For what it's worth, I think that debate is healthy, but I also see that the technical grades are being skewed. Is a 45 a 45, or is it a 53 that has a scrape, mark, spot, or area that can't allow for a grader to call it a 53 that day, but it's not a bag, so it's a market 45? If so then is the true 45, without issue and reasonable looks a plus?

    It can be argued that the added pluses or stars, help further that debate, but in the MS / PR grades, then we are at decimal grading effectively, correct? Should we go farther there? Is an effective half-point enough? Is the plus sufficient to determine the differences? If that's the case, then why not just go all the way and use 1 through 59 for circulated?

    Sans that, we have effectively split every market grade at least once. Maybe not technically, but for what someone deems "marketability". Adding in the opinion of the opinion with a sticker of some sort, and the grading spectrum becomes a more dizzying array of opinions and subjectivity to the less advanced.

    Let's play the old cover the grade game and see if we can put the widgets back in their shells, with all the right modifiers to boot. You know the game. I'm sure you're better than many at it. I use widgets because some coins are recognizable, especially to photographic memories.

    Finally, I also think what is considered premium is different to different people, surely graders as well, and so these additional modifiers (the plus or the star, then later the sticker or the bean) tend to compile opinion atop opinion.

    In the end it is human nature for most to immediately want to fit the peg in the hole, instead of looking at the peg without too much prejudice.

    In essence, sometimes we need to stop and enjoy the coin for the coin.

    I know there's a lot of money to be made from opinion and subjectivity.

    I also don't disagree with all of it, because I remember the end of the wild west.

    Some of it though ... well I think some of it is too much (at least for me). And overall, I don't always feel that is in the collectors best interest.

    Of course, I could be wrong.

    Todd

    Todd, don’t get me wrong - I’m not for any further attempts at grading refinement. I think we already have more than is practical for purposes of objectivity and consistency.

    I wish there were an option to “love” and not just “like” a post. If there were, I would have chosen it for yours. <3

  • stockdude_stockdude_ Posts: 470 ✭✭✭

    Eye appeal is subjective and should not be used as a criteria for grading a coin

  • highwayman1highwayman1 Posts: 107 ✭✭✭

    Subjective eye appeal isn't used as a criteria for grading, only obvious eye appeal - which is almost a given.

    "He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver, nor he who loves abundance, with increase. This also is vanity.
    When goods increase, they increase who eat them -- so what profit have the owners, except to see them with their eyes?"
    "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man’s all.
    For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether good or evil."
    "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."
    http://www.youtube.com/user/alohabibleprophecy/videos

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    How should one price an XF45+ coin? Would if be half way between an XF45 and an AU50?

    Price it like a coin graded XF with a Green Bean?

    Just an IMHOP guess.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon

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