@BillJones said:
The debt problem and the money supply are real concerns now. I heard the other day that the debt is up to $27 trillion. It also seems that the Federal Reserve Bank is about the only customer for new U.S. debt. It might be that the gold price will, at best, only keep up with inflation.
While gold knows the "truth" about debt and money supply, many in power to make money decisions are convinced that MMT's claim that debt and money supply are irrelevant is a godsend. More reason to have gold.
Gold is a defensive measure, not an answer.
Not sure "defensive" is the right term. Gold is up about 45% over the last 5 years. That doesnt sound defensive to me. If you mesn that gold does well when stocks dont---that doesnt work either. The S &P 500 is up about 44% over the last 5 years---about the same as gold. Smart investors can make money from gold without being defensive.
Among other things gold provides a good defense against falling currency and a good defense against failing central bank policy. Some call it a defense, I call it insurance.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
My suggestion: Dump Gold....I would not even consider buying it at today's levels and to whom would you sell it? Bullion dealers at melt or below melt? Cash is KING
Economics is not my strong point, but is there any end in sight when it comes to the national debt? I mean the can keeps getting kicked down further and further for someone else to worry about. Can't we just keep this up? We can always print more money, so what is the point to have a balanced budget, or dare I say surplus, if the debt keeps growing without any consequences in sight? I have been hearing this "worry" about the national debt for decades now. So, when is the sky going to fall? Like I said, economics is not my strong point, so I like to be enlightened. I am wondering if the decline in buying power of the Middle Class is connected to all this. If it is, then the sky is falling bit by bit.
As an analogy, perhaps a similar narrative can be said about people that are not environmentalists regarding pollution and climate change. They have been hearing about global warming, oil dumped into the ocean, toxins in fish, resource depletion for decades and are probably wondering when the sky is going to fall on that one. Flint, Michigan is just the tip of the iceberg.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
@DeutscherGeist said:
Economics is not my strong point, but is there any end in sight when it comes to the national debt? I mean the can keeps getting kicked down further and further for someone else to worry about. Can't we just keep this up? We can always print more money, so what is the point to have a balanced budget, or dare I say surplus, if the debt keeps growing without any consequences in sight? I have been hearing this "worry" about the national debt for decades now. So, when is the sky going to fall? Like I said, economics is not my strong point, so I like to be enlightened. I am wondering if the decline in buying power of the Middle Class is connected to all this. If it is, then the sky is falling bit by bit.
As an analogy, perhaps a similar narrative can be said about people that are not environmentalists regarding pollution and climate change. They have been hearing about global warming, oil dumped into the ocean, toxins in fish, resource depletion for decades and are probably wondering when the sky is going to fall on that one. Flint, Michigan is just the tip of the iceberg.
Look at Japan. They've been doing it for 25 years and there cumulative debt is 250% of GDP.
Sovereign debt is not at all like household debt.
There's an old Wall St saying: the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Even if you think the debt is irrational - and it really isn't clear - it can keep growing for decades.
I'd also point out that gold is no different than stocks in a sovereign debt inflationary bubble. They are both dollar denominated assets that will inflate with the currency.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I guess the more one chases knowledge, the more one realizes that there is so much that they do not know.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
@BillJones said:
The debt problem and the money supply are real concerns now. I heard the other day that the debt is up to $27 trillion. It also seems that the Federal Reserve Bank is about the only customer for new U.S. debt. It might be that the gold price will, at best, only keep up with inflation.
While gold knows the "truth" about debt and money supply, many in power to make money decisions are convinced that MMT's claim that debt and money supply are irrelevant is a godsend. More reason to have gold.
Gold is a defensive measure, not an answer.
Someone here once said gold is insurance.
That’s my line. You have insurance for your car, insurance for your health and insurance for your home. I’ve always bought gold with the idea that it was insurance for my cash
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sovereign debt of a nation held by the nation's central bank and it's federal agencies means nothing. It never has to be repaid and with no consequences. This is the foundation Modern Monetary Theory. 40% of US debt is held by its central bank and it's federal agencies (i.e. social security trust fund) and this percentage is growing.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@DeutscherGeist said:
Economics is not my strong point, but is there any end in sight when it comes to the national debt? I mean the can keeps getting kicked down further and further for someone else to worry about. Can't we just keep this up? We can always print more money, so what is the point to have a balanced budget, or dare I say surplus, if the debt keeps growing without any consequences in sight?
The Printing presses will work for years until suddenly one day they won’t. People (market makers) will lose confidence all at once if they lose confidence at all. That day will be a very good one to own lots of gold(probably physical), but no one including the Fed knows when that will occur and they are trying very hard to make sure it will never occur. Likely many years away in my opinion but who knows and hopefully there are better times ahead to reverse the deficits.
@roadrunner said: Both came out winners, though. I was under the illusion that gold outperforms the stock market if given at least a 20 years span.
It is easy to find numerous 10+ yr periods where gold out-performed stocks. That's the point. It's never just one or the other.....2000-2011 was one such period. If you take the most powerful rare coins since 1970, they outperformed both stocks and gold.....appreciating approx 50-100X in that period. But you had to go after incredible gems, pop top choice/gem type coins, key dates, etc. Run of the mill stuff or even "decent" stuff got smoked by gold.
Ridiculous comparison. You can't cherry pick coins and compare them to stock indices. Imagine if I cherry picked stocks to compare to your cherry picked coins? Amazon or Microsoft stock would crush the return of a Gem Unc chain cent purchased from the Mint for one cent.
LOL. The stock indexes are "cherry picked" by definition as losers are tossed out....and potential new winners added. The lack of financial knowledge around here is sometimes frightening. LOL. Amazon is one of these "new" additions. What losers were tossed out on the various indexes to bring Amazon into the fold? Imagine if the PCGS3000 CU index got to throw away all the big losers since 1989 and only include the top pop/winners of the past 20 yrs? Truly Laughable.
@3stars said:
If you bought classic commems or MS65 Morgan dollars at their peak you probably have lost 50% or more.
Far more than that. Most of the more common gem commems are probably 10-25% of their 1989 highs. Look at MS65 Columbian halves from $3500+ to $350. Even with changing grading standards the fall is monumental.
@3stars said:
If you bought classic commems or MS65 Morgan dollars at their peak you probably have lost 50% or more.
Far more than that. Most of the more common gem commems are probably 10-25% of their 1989 highs. Look at MS65 Columbian halves from $3500+ to $350. Even with changing grading standards the fall is monumental.
@3stars said:
If you bought classic commems or MS65 Morgan dollars at their peak you probably have lost 50% or more.
Far more than that. Most of the more common gem commems are probably 10-25% of their 1989 highs. Look at MS65 Columbian halves from $3500+ to $350. Even with changing grading standards the fall is monumental.
And MS65 common date Morgans were briefly selling in the $800 range at the peak.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
That's what index funds are for. Buy the Wilshire 5000.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Not sure "defensive" is the right term. Gold is up about 45% over the last 5 years. That doesnt sound defensive to me. If you mesn that gold does well when stocks dont---that doesnt work either. The S &P 500 is up about 44% over the last 5 years---about the same as gold. Smart investors can make money from gold without being defensive.
Among other things gold provides a good defense against falling currency and a good defense against failing central bank policy. Some call it a defense, I call it insurance.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
My suggestion: Dump Gold....I would not even consider buying it at today's levels and to whom would you sell it? Bullion dealers at melt or below melt? Cash is KING
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1039532/paypal-policy-updates#pagetop
Economics is not my strong point, but is there any end in sight when it comes to the national debt? I mean the can keeps getting kicked down further and further for someone else to worry about. Can't we just keep this up? We can always print more money, so what is the point to have a balanced budget, or dare I say surplus, if the debt keeps growing without any consequences in sight? I have been hearing this "worry" about the national debt for decades now. So, when is the sky going to fall? Like I said, economics is not my strong point, so I like to be enlightened. I am wondering if the decline in buying power of the Middle Class is connected to all this. If it is, then the sky is falling bit by bit.
As an analogy, perhaps a similar narrative can be said about people that are not environmentalists regarding pollution and climate change. They have been hearing about global warming, oil dumped into the ocean, toxins in fish, resource depletion for decades and are probably wondering when the sky is going to fall on that one. Flint, Michigan is just the tip of the iceberg.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Look at Japan. They've been doing it for 25 years and there cumulative debt is 250% of GDP.
Sovereign debt is not at all like household debt.
There's an old Wall St saying: the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Even if you think the debt is irrational - and it really isn't clear - it can keep growing for decades.
I'd also point out that gold is no different than stocks in a sovereign debt inflationary bubble. They are both dollar denominated assets that will inflate with the currency.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
jmlanzaf,
I guess the more one chases knowledge, the more one realizes that there is so much that they do not know.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
That’s my line. You have insurance for your car, insurance for your health and insurance for your home. I’ve always bought gold with the idea that it was insurance for my cash
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sovereign debt of a nation held by the nation's central bank and it's federal agencies means nothing. It never has to be repaid and with no consequences. This is the foundation Modern Monetary Theory. 40% of US debt is held by its central bank and it's federal agencies (i.e. social security trust fund) and this percentage is growing.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The Printing presses will work for years until suddenly one day they won’t. People (market makers) will lose confidence all at once if they lose confidence at all. That day will be a very good one to own lots of gold(probably physical), but no one including the Fed knows when that will occur and they are trying very hard to make sure it will never occur. Likely many years away in my opinion but who knows and hopefully there are better times ahead to reverse the deficits.
“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
LOL. The stock indexes are "cherry picked" by definition as losers are tossed out....and potential new winners added. The lack of financial knowledge around here is sometimes frightening. LOL. Amazon is one of these "new" additions. What losers were tossed out on the various indexes to bring Amazon into the fold? Imagine if the PCGS3000 CU index got to throw away all the big losers since 1989 and only include the top pop/winners of the past 20 yrs? Truly Laughable.
Far more than that. Most of the more common gem commems are probably 10-25% of their 1989 highs. Look at MS65 Columbian halves from $3500+ to $350. Even with changing grading standards the fall is monumental.
And MS65 common date Morgans were briefly selling in the $800 range at the peak.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
After reading all of this thread ... what can I say but ... hold on.