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A Serious Question about the rare coin market, corona virus and state sales tax....no its not a joke

segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

With the majority of states having either a partial or full exemption on coins, bullion and currency, how do people think states will react as they grapple with MEGA budget shortfalls due to the virus?

If states look to recoup funds, they will look under every stone, and coins could possibly one of those stones. If they do begin to collect sales tax, could that have a negative affect on the market??

Thoughts???

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Comments

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 6:15PM

    @segoja said:
    With the majority of states having either a partial or full exemption on coins, bullion and currency, how do people think states will react as they grapple with MEGA budget shortfalls due to the virus?

    If states look to recoup funds, they will look under every stone, and coins could possibly one of those stones. If they do begin to collect sales tax, could that have a negative affect on the market??

    Thoughts???

    I would be more concerned with a wealth tax. That's a tax that keeps on giving. I'm not sure the coin market alone is that big in most states to be worth going after. Especially when you consider that several big states don't have the exemption already. But a tax on wealth covers everything.

  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

    "I would be more concerned with a wealth tax. That's a tax that keeps on giving. I'm not sure the coin market alone is that big in most states to be worth going after. But a tax on wealth covers everything."

    No way states implement a wealth tax. If the Fed does, you can rest assured it'll only hit the uber wealthy.

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that if the economic recovery is prolonged, the state governments will indeed find ways for funding budget gaps with increased tax on areas which they can rationalize to their constituents. The near in budget gap will be sizeable as sales taxes decline. I think their first push will be for increased and comparable To local taxation on internet sales.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    "I would be more concerned with a wealth tax. That's a tax that keeps on giving. I'm not sure the coin market alone is that big in most states to be worth going after. But a tax on wealth covers everything."

    No way states implement a wealth tax. If the Fed does, you can rest assured it'll only hit the uber wealthy.

    Maybe, maybe not. The income tax originally only applied to the wealthy. And "wealthy" is in the eye of the beholder.

    Sales tax on coins is nickels and dimes. You are talking about a couple billion in sales of which half of it is probably already taxed in states like NY and CA that have very limited exemptions. So if you take an average 8% tax on an untaxed billion in sales, that's $80 million spread across the country.

  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

    Agree limited $$$, but $$$ nonetheless......they will want everything possible IMHO

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • CommencentsCommencents Posts: 349 ✭✭✭

    I doubt sales tax on rare coins will affect wealthy buyers, their the only ones that can afford them!

    It does however, make me the average Joe, think twice about bidding on low to mid range coins.
    I was not too happy with $30+ sales tax on a recent purchase! Makes it tough for
    sellers by reducing profit margins substantially.

    If your state does't tax coins now, just wait...they will later.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With budget shortfalls they'll be taking a closer look at everything now 😦

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Taxes have become irrelevant. Indeed, I'm not even clear why the Feds bother to collect taxes this year. At issue is to force-feed trillions TO taxpayers and everyone else, to stave off the collapse of the economy because very few are either earning or buying. The states are turning to the Feds for sustenance just like everyone else.

    The aftermath is uncharted seas, but there surely will be long-term, historical consequences in terms of how governments finance their activities.

  • Elcontador1Elcontador1 Posts: 98 ✭✭✭

    Expect more bond issues floated, taxes on utilities, more and higher licensing fees. There will be a push to expand the sales tax base, like a sales tax on services, something California has been trying to do for at least the last ten years.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 10:43PM

    I'm more concerned about the Wayfair decision. In the name of regulating commerce between the states, it could easily lead to the elimination of all State sales taxes, and the introduction of a national sales tax or VAT. With some effort and luck, some or all coins could get excluded, which would be fantastic. But that's hardly a given.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it May, 2020 or is it really December, 1929? The past two months have turned the world upside down.

    People are going to want things to go back to "normal" but are likely to find that "normal" no longer exists. They will pretend that everything is OK when the stay at home orders are lifted but will find that everything is really not OK. Many jobs will no longer exist. Repo men will be doing a bustling business hauling away all those costly SUVs and extended cab pickup trucks that were bought by people who really never could afford them. When bans on foreclosures are lifted look for a surge in the homeless population. Schools will have huge funding shortfalls and that issue alone will fuel the urgent need for more tax revenue.

    Will coin collectors and bullion stackers find themselves receiving or retaining special tax exemptions? Don't count on it.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • RedstoneCoinsRedstoneCoins Posts: 217 ✭✭✭

    Please delete this thread.

    Don't give the taxers any new ideas of things to tax!

    Soon they'll be taxing us for every word we type on forums, by the letter. . .

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    "I would be more concerned with a wealth tax. That's a tax that keeps on giving. I'm not sure the coin market alone is that big in most states to be worth going after. But a tax on wealth covers everything."

    No way states implement a wealth tax. If the Fed does, you can rest assured it'll only hit the uber wealthy.

    Ummmm…..you are way wrong on that.
    Washington State has been trying and is STILL trying to institute "wealth" taxes. They are trying to find ways to get an inroad there......they have been loading the judicial benches with sympathetic judges and are continually trying to push it. Eventually, maybe even sooner rather than later, they will probably succeed BECAUSE they have loaded the benches and because this state is a 1-party (tax me to death) state.

    I don't think they will go as small as going after taxing coins/bullions (I could be wrong), but they are trying everything from city level to state level to get at large companies as well as employees making "too much". And, it won't be the "uber wealthy". It will be on the lower "upper" end for individuals, not the $500,000+ a year group, but much lower than that.

    There's a certain one in seattle that isn't even stopping during the pandemic.....

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see states raising the sales taxes in the very near future...after all, most selling has been drastically effected, and aside from supermarkets and major stores (Walmart, Lowes etc.) businesses have been shut down....so the coffers are draining rapidly (spending does not stop). On the other side of the 'coin' people have reduced or zero income...and when it resumes, much of the expenditures will go to mortgage, rent, past bills etc.. Future looking a bit grim.... Cheers, RickO

  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My gut says the focus will on sin taxes- tobacco, alcohol, and marijuana. Legalizing marijuana could raise a tremendous amount of untapped revenue. People are using it anyway- time to collect revenue from it. Also, the alcohol tax is quite low.

    I don't see politicians voting to tax the wealthy. I see new taxes coming in small doses from the masses.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do know that the sales tax that was implemented by many states has had an adverse affect on sales, most people (at least in the range price ) of the items I sell has definitely. I do have several dealers that buy from me, so they are exempted in most cases.

    I don't sell bullion on ebay, cant compete with the reduced fee structure that the big players get.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ANYTHING except punitive tariffs on China.
    They're our pals.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We just spent trillions, with a T, on a rescue package. Wait for the tax increase. It is not even a question. We have to pay for that. Both Federal and State governments will do everything in their power to collect to the last cent they are entitled...

  • tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I moved to Georgia in 1975 I was shocked to find that they had an Intangible Personal Property Tax. Each year you had to file a Intangible Tax Return and pay tax on cask, stock, bonds and I can’t remember what else. If I remember correctly the tax was $0.10 on every $1,000.00 in cash (CDs, savings accounts, etc.) and $1.00 on every $1,000.00 in Stocks. I also seem to remember some sort of exemption but not sure. All I know is I was by no means wealthy (maybe $50,000 net worth including equity in my home) and I had to file a return and pay some tax every year.

    In 1996 the Supreme Court ruled that a similar tax in North Carolina was invalid and the Georgia Legislature repealed the tax.

    Who’s to say it can’t be put back in place in the future?

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    "I would be more concerned with a wealth tax. That's a tax that keeps on giving. I'm not sure the coin market alone is that big in most states to be worth going after. But a tax on wealth covers everything."

    No way states implement a wealth tax. If the Fed does, you can rest assured it'll only hit the uber wealthy.

    If your know the history of the income tax, you know that it started as “a tax on the wealthy” and worked its way down to the wage earners pretty fast. That’s how they get their nose under the tent. They tell you it’s not intended to get to you, but pretty soon, it does.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020 10:51AM

    Sales tax is set by statute law. I have no control over this. In Texas no sales tax on coins / bullion. I am sure it has hurt my bay sales for states that charge sales tax on coins like California (which I believe taxes coins and bullion). I sometimes see where eBay has collected sales from the buyer to remit to the state on my behalf. The law now allows states to charge (that states) tax to resident buyers on out of state purchases. I have no control over that. It’s the buyers call to decide which venue works for them.

    From an accounting view I would add sales tax and shipping to the costs of the coin. On the flip side attending a local show has its costs like gas, mileage expense, entry, and parking. Not to mention table fee if setting up. I always viewed it as an even wash. For big ticket material I would buy sight seen at shows, paying cash where no sales tax.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Abuelo said:
    We just spent trillions, with a T, on a rescue package. Wait for the tax increase. It is not even a question. We have to pay for that. Both Federal and State governments will do everything in their power to collect to the last cent they are entitled...

    Yes, this virus gives them the perfect reason to go on a wide open crusade of tax increases.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can add an extra line to the Beatles song "Taxman":If you try to eat I'll tax your meat.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020 7:27AM

    I am more worried about the direction of the coin market (especially with covid) than some sales tax issue. Many people have lost their jobs, many will never recover to the income level they had. Many in coin club trying sell out in anguish “why did I not sell out in 2015 or before this.”

    Yes a sales Tax tack on is a bummer if your state adds it to your out of state purchase. Which party helped empower this / open that door? It has hurt my sales in certain states but one has just to got to move on.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I here it all the time on the news about job loss, and I can see it televised, and I am sure its happening, but the people who have come into the shop locally to buy silver who have loss their jobs are getting more money from stimulus and unemployment than when they were working.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would depend on how badly the person wants the coin or other item. The longer this keeps up the more people who will have less disposable income. Where are these people getting the $$ to load up on guns, ammo, etc.?

    I still buy via eBay, Amazon, online places. Even with ST it's still cheaper. Or if I need just one of something, I'll buy local if the price is right. Some places don't collect ST and they are first in line if the price is right.

    I'd be more concerned that some will require PayPal to furnish 1099s for every user; retro back for 5 years. If you took PP gift for bullion you're gonna have some splainin to do or taxes to pay.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More taxes will come for retirement accounts. That’s where the money is.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jdimmick said:
    but the people who have come into the shop locally to buy silver who have loss their jobs are getting more money from stimulus and unemployment than when they were working.

    Hey here is an idea, perhaps, just perhaps, just maybe, those "employers" should pay their employees a living wage.

    I am so tired of people blaming the underpaid workers of this country.

  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you want more taxes, vote Democrat.

    At some point we'll all have to pay for the uncontrolled spending; no way we can keep barrowing money just to give it away. The bill...always comes due at some point. Or, it's bankruptcy!

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • labloverlablover Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @jdimmick said:
    but the people who have come into the shop locally to buy silver who have loss their jobs are getting more money from stimulus and unemployment than when they were working.

    Hey here is an idea, perhaps, just perhaps, just maybe, those "employers" should pay their employees a living wage.

    I am so tired of people blaming the underpaid workers of this country.

    Usually education will cure that problem.

    "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedstoneCoins said:
    Please delete this thread.

    Don't give the taxers any new ideas of things to tax!

    Soon they'll be taxing us for every word we type on forums, by the letter. . .

    I am imposing a $0.05 tax on your post! Please send payment to 🤑

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a novel suggestion for governmental budget shortfalls.

    Instead of raising taxes, borrowing or simply printing money, cut spending.

    Do not spend what you do not have.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    Here is a novel suggestion for governmental budget shortfalls.

    Instead of raising taxes, borrowing or simply printing money, cut spending.

    Do not spend what you do not have.

    As The Daily Oklahoman said in 1951:

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Time to close this thread.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    tick tock

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    I agree.

    I am not allowed to respond to such nonsense.

    Why is the above nonsense allowed if others can not refute it?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    I agree.

    I am not allowed to respond to such nonsense.

    Why is the above nonsense allowed if others can not refute it?

    Why are you not allowed? Did you get a warning from PCGS?

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    I agree.

    I am not allowed to respond to such nonsense.

    Why is the above nonsense allowed if others can not refute it?

    Why are you not allowed? Did you get a warning from PCGS?

    Irrelevant. I do not have any warnings from the mods, but if I were to post a response I would knowingly be violating the rules against political discourse.

  • cucamongacoincucamongacoin Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭

    "Why do you rob banks?" "That's where the money is."

    <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ebay.com/sch/cucamo...?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc="> MY EBAY
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    Here is a novel suggestion for governmental budget shortfalls.

    Instead of raising taxes, borrowing or simply printing money, cut spending.

    Do not spend what you do not have.

    We as a nation are past due for some hard decisions.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here in NV we burned through the $400 million rainy day fund we had before March. Then our Gov, Sisolak (D), held a special session to raise money via an income tax (we have no tax on income here in NV). Said "it would be temporary", yeah nobody believed that crap. It failed to get the votes needed to proceed. So, he did what all Gov'ts need to do, cut spending, halted hiring and pulled his belt in.

    Back to normal,
    bob :)
    Be well, be safe.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :o

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    I agree.

    I am not allowed to respond to such nonsense.

    Why is the above nonsense allowed if others can not refute it?

    Why are you not allowed? Did you get a warning from PCGS?

    Irrelevant. I do not have any warnings from the mods, but if I were to post a response I would knowingly be violating the rules against political discourse.

    It's hardly irrelevant. He specifically said "I am not allowed...". I wondered what he meant by that. I'm not sure why you feel the need to question my question. He might have meant that we are all not allowed. He might also have been speaking of himself singly.

    Maybe you should take a moment and criticize him for saying "I" instead of "we".

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CoinJunkie said:
    Time to close this thread.

    I agree.

    I am not allowed to respond to such nonsense.

    Why is the above nonsense allowed if others can not refute it?

    Why are you not allowed? Did you get a warning from PCGS?

    Irrelevant. I do not have any warnings from the mods, but if I were to post a response I would knowingly be violating the rules against political discourse.

    It's hardly irrelevant. He specifically said "I am not allowed...". I wondered what he meant by that. I'm not sure why you feel the need to question my question. He might have meant that we are all not allowed. He might also have been speaking of himself singly.

    Maybe you should take a moment and criticize him for saying "I" instead of "we".

    I'm not here to criticize either of you. I'm merely pointing out that technically no one is allowed to post political commentary on this forum. That is true regardless of whether the poster has been warned previously.

    EOM.

This discussion has been closed.