Also got a shipped notice yesterday. I ordered only the MS versions. I'll get the PR versions later this year. And I HATE myself for the OCD that absolutely requires me to buy all the modern commemoratives.
I couldn’t talk myself into buying a single basketball coin! Far cry from the hysteria when the baseball coins went on sale. And, therein lies the problem for me-when I can buy a 6 year old gold baseball coin graded perfect PCGS 70FS for a good bit less money than a raw basketball coin at this point, I can not justify buying the basketball version. Further, we are selling PCGS 70 grade gold baseball coins right now signed by solid Hall of Fame players for quite a bit less money than the raw gold basketball coins! The Mint priced me out of the product-plain and simple.
But, of course, I couldn’t just sit with all the money in my bank unspent. I went right to Heritage and grabbed a super cool finest known variety (pop 4/0) for $2,640 all in, that last sold at auction almost 2 years ago as a pop 2/0 for $6,600 all in. To those registry beginners- the registry is a marathon race, not a sprint!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
As reflected by new posts in this thread, the Basketball coins show an anemic response compared to previous commemorative coin releases. The lowest seller on Thursday is the Unc. $5 Gold at just 1,640 which isn't unanticipated. At this point I don't expect any of these coins to reach "sold out" status.
@AUandAG said:
An old man, a girl and a wheelchair player....no for me. Ugly coin, way to many themes on one surface. Net covering it all does not make sense....
Politically correct coins are not new.
pass.
good one.
bob
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Near 50,000 gold baseball sold in a short time frame in 2014 compared to under 6,000 of these basketball on day 1. Can the Mint think for a moment they priced these coins properly? Or any gold or platinum coins this year for that matter?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I couldn’t talk myself into buying a single basketball coin! Far cry from the hysteria when the baseball coins went on sale. And, therein lies the problem for me-when I can buy a 6 year old gold baseball coin graded perfect PCGS 70FS for a good bit less money than a raw basketball coin at this point, I can not justify buying the basketball version. Further, we are selling PCGS 70 grade gold baseball coins right now signed by solid Hall of Fame players for quite a bit less money than the raw gold basketball coins! The Mint priced me out of the product-plain and simple.
But, of course, I couldn’t just sit with all the money in my bank unspent. I went right to Heritage and grabbed a super cool finest known variety (pop 4/0) for $2,640 all in, that last sold at auction almost 2 years ago as a pop 2/0 for $6,600 all in. To those registry beginners- the registry is a marathon race, not a sprint!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Wondercoin| Agreed. I don't get excited about the new listings from USM-even though I collect the gold commems, and like them. With a little patience they come appear here and there for substantially less in PR and MS 70's for close to bullion or sometimes less. I was caught up in the mania of the HOF gold coins-a cool coin imo-and lost out on a $800 bid. Fortunately I was overbid. About a year later I located both the MS and PR versions in FS for less than the $800 bid I lost out on prior.
Kid's set half not very much different sold so far than the standard proof half is a bit surprising to me being a unique finish and delayed (for a real reason?) commemorative.
The gold Basketball uncirculated mintage is already greater than around 22 first spouse gold uncirculated coins final mintages, so it is already pretty common for a new US Mint gold coin. LOL
The first time we came up with convex and concave coins, I thought it was odd and strange. In fact, I haven't changed my view. I feel
like they all belong on the railroad track until a train rolls over them and straightens them out.
Baseballs and hot dogs. Woot as to basketball ????
I like that "nothing but net" look .... on the one side.
I'm sorry but I think the design is stupid. I can't get past the basketball being larger than the rim and the wheelchair guy's arm being unnaturally long. Too bad they couldn't have put a famous image of a dunk on the coin like Dr. J's free throw line slam in 1976. That was a classic!
@TurtleCat said:
I wonder how much of the sale actually goes to the charity?
It probably says on the site. It's usually part of the original terms for the coin.
I'm searching. So far I can only find the surcharges and no mention of the goals to give the charity those surcharges.
"Surcharges collected from coin sales — $35 for each gold coin, $10 for each silver coin, and $5 for each half–dollar coin — are authorized to be paid to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame to fund an endowment that will enable increased operations and educational programming."
@chesterb said:
I'm sorry but I think the design is stupid. I can't get past the basketball being larger than the rim and the wheelchair guy's arm being unnaturally long. Too bad they couldn't have put a famous image of a dunk on the coin like Dr. J's free throw line slam in 1976. That was a classic!
In actuality, the rim could almost fit two basketballs
Excerpts from the document: Surcharges
The surcharges section of the legislation typically sets the surcharges (amount above the face value that the U.S. Mint charges) per coin and designates the distribution of these surcharges to recipient organizations. For example, the statute to authorize the U.S. Army commemorative coin stated:
SEC. 7. SURCHARGES.
(a) In General.—All sales of coins minted under this Act shall include a surcharge as follows:
(1) A surcharge of $35 per coin for the $5 coin.
(2) A surcharge of $10 per coin for the $1 coin.
(3) A surcharge of $5 per coin for the half dollar coin.
(b) Distribution.—Subject to section 5134(f) of title 31, United States Code, all surcharges received by the Secretary from the sale of coins issued under this Act shall be promptly paid by the Secretary to the Foundation to help finance the National Museum of the United States Army.
(c) Audits.—The Foundation shall be subject to the audit requirements of section 5134(f)(2) of title 31, United States Code, with regard to the amounts received by the Foundation under subsection (b).
(d) Limitation.—Notwithstanding subsection (a), no surcharge may be included with respect to the issuance under this Act of any coin during a calendar year if, as of the time of such issuance, the issuance of such coin would result in the number of commemorative coin programs issued during such year to exceed the annual 2 commemorative coin program issuance limitation under section 5112(m)(1) of title 31, United States Code (as in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act). The Secretary of the Treasury may issue guidance to carry out this subsection.24
More information on surcharges and disbursement to designated recipient organizations can be found below under "Disbursement of Surcharges."
Disbursement of Surcharges
An important part of commemorative coin legislation is the designation of groups to receive potential surcharges from the coin sales. Often, when drafting legislation, Members have specific organizations in mind as recipients of potential surcharges. As that legislation is being drafted, however, Members face a choice of whether surcharges should be directed to a single group, or to more than one entity.
In order for a group to receive surcharge payments, it must go through two stages: (1) raise sufficient matching funds from private sources,57 and (2) be subject to annual audits on its use of surcharge payments.58 Designated recipient groups are required to raise matching funds from private sources prior to the disbursement of surcharges. A group's ability to raise sufficient funds is a potentially important consideration. Should a group not raise sufficient private funds, the full surcharge payment for which they could be eligible might not be disbursed.
Authorizing legislation generally includes language about how the group might use surcharges. As shown in "Surcharges" above, these purposes are often broad. For example, the legislation that authorized the 1993 Thomas Jefferson Commemorative coin directed surcharges to two organizations: the Jefferson Endowment Fund and the Corporation for Jefferson's Poplar Forest.59 Funds for the Jefferson Endowment Fund were to be used "to establish and maintain an endowment to be a permanent source of support for Monticello and its historic furnishings; and for the Jefferson Endowment Fund's educational programs, including the International Center for Jefferson Studies."60 For the Corporation for Jefferson's Poplar Forest, funds were to be used for the "restoration and maintenance of Poplar Forest."61
Once sufficient funds are raised and surcharges are disbursed, designated recipient groups are subject to an audit of surcharge payments.62 Additionally, the surcharge payments must be "accounted for separately from all other revenues and expenditures of the organization."63 These audits are conducted "in accordance with generally accepted government auditing standards by an independent public accountant selected by the organization."64 Should a group not use payments properly, that information would likely be discovered by the required audit and could potentially result in a sanction, although no specific penalty is mentioned in law.
If you haven't "rested your eyes" yet, prepare your self for a little more. An example is included showing a typical disbursement to a recipient of surcharges. Note: the paragraph near the end about the recovery of "all allocable operation and program costs prior to the release of surcharge funds."
There is the catch. If sales don't cover all costs the remainder available to the charity would be a negative number and therefore the charity, to quote Willy Wonka of Charlie and the chocolate factory -
Willy Wonka: Wrong sir, wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him. It states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy. I the undersigned shall forfeit all rights privileges and licenses herein and herein contained et cetera et cetera... huhh fax mentis incendium gloria culpum et cetera et cetera... huhh memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there black and white clear as crystal! You stole fizzylifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir! Grandpa Joe: You're a crook. You're a cheat and a swindler. That's what you are! How can you do a thing like this?! Build up a little boy's hope and then smash all his dreams to pieces! You're an inhuman MONSTER! Willy Wonka:I SAID GOOD DAY!
Disbursement of Surcharges
As discussed above under "Authorizing Commemorative Coins," each authorizing statute sets a surcharge amount per coin and designates one or more recipient organizations to receive the surcharges. A designated recipient organization is "any organization designated, under any provision of law, as the recipient of any surcharge imposed on the sale of any numismatic item."44
Commemorative coin legislation generally includes the name(s) of the organization(s) that will benefit from the sale of the coin and how the surcharges will be divided, if necessary. For example, the legislation authorizing a commemorative coin for the U.S. Marshals Service specified four groups to receive distribution from the program.45 They were
the U.S. Marshals Museum, Inc.,
the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children,
the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association Foundation, and
the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.46
Additionally, the law might also specify how much money the designated recipient organization should receive. For the Marshals Service commemorative coin, the first $5 million was specified for the U.S. Marshals Museum. After that, additional surcharges were divided equally among the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association Foundation, and the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.47
Once a commemorative coin has been authorized, the CCRA requires that certain standards be met before surcharge payments can be distributed to designated recipient organizations:48
The recipient organization must raise funds from private sources "in an amount that is equal to or greater than the total amount of the proceeds of such surcharge derived from the sale of such numismatic item."49
The qualifying funds raised from private sources must be for the purposes specified by the enabling legislation.
The U.S. Mint must recover "all numismatic operation and program costs allocable to the program."50
The recipient organization must submit an audited financial statement and submit the results of annual audits to demonstrate, to the satisfaction of the Secretary of the Treasury, that it has qualified for surcharge proceeds and is properly expending them.51
Guidance provided by the U.S. Mint in Surcharge Recipient Organization's Compliance Procedures for Surcharge Eligibility & Payments includes further details of the requirements placed on designated recipient groups before surcharge payments can be made. These include requirements for documentation on the amount of money raised from private sources and the period of fund raising. To document these requirements, designated recipient groups must fill out a "Schedule of Funds Raised From Private Sources," which is provided in an appendix to the Surcharge Recipient Organization's Compliance Procedures for Surcharge Eligibility & Payments publication.52
Following completion of these tasks, and after the Mint has recouped any expenses related to minting the commemorative coin, surcharges are then disbursed to the designated recipient organization.53 Since 1982, when the commemorative coin program was restarted, the U.S. Mint has raised more than $506 million in surcharges for various designated recipient groups.54 Production costs for each commemorative coin can differ based on design, administrative costs, and metals used. For example, Table 4 shows how the U.S. Mint calculated surcharges for a commemorative coin for the 2007 Benjamin Franklin Commemorative Coin.55
Table 4. Example Calculation of Commemorative Coin Surcharge Payments
Â
Benjamin Franklin
REVENUE
$20,348,835
COST OF GOODS SOLD
Â
Manufacturing and Assembling
$7,576,163
Order Fulfillment
$549,513
Total Cost of Goods Sold
$8,125,676
RESULTS BEFORE SELLING, GENERAL & ADMINISTRATIVE
$12,223,159
Selling, General & Administrative
Â
Promotional
$1,000,000
Travel
$2,290
General & Administrative & Marketing
$2,529,656
Total Selling, General & Administrative
$3,531,946
PROFIT BEFORE SURCHARGES
$8,691,213
SURCHARGE ON REVENUEa
$4,995,570
ESTIMATED PROFIT (LOSS)b
$3,695,643
POTENTIAL UNRECOVERED MINT INVESTMENTc
Â
Melting
$1,710
Manufacturing and Assembling
$511,527
TOTAL
$513,237
SURCHARGE FORWARDED TO RECPIENT ORGANIZATIONS
a. Surcharge on revenue are the proceeds collected for designated recipient organizations.
b. "P.L. 104-208 requires the United States Mint to recover all allocable operation and program costs prior to the release of surcharge funds. The United States Mint will reduce the surcharge payment to recover these costs as necessary." For more information, see Department of the Treasury, U.S. Mint, FY2007 1st Quarter Financial Report of the United States Mint Commemorative Coin Programs, p. 6, at https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/ccra2007q1.pdf.
c. As required by P.L. 104-208, §529.
You have to figure these agreements are written by high ranking government lawyers and they always leave a way to pay nothing.
I was very excited when this coin was announced and finally went on sale. I bought all 3 proof coins plus the kids set. Perhaps not my best decision. The gold coin is very small, which is usually okay, but not for the busy obverse design of this coin. It does not show well. The bigger silver and clad coins are better. However, the Mint packed the silver coin so tightly in the case that I cannot get it out. If I use too much force, I'm afraid I will break or scratch the plastic capsule. The coin concept and design are good, but it does not translate well to a small coin.
Yes, mine shipped yesterday. I was trying to find this original post.
So far PCGS did not say the First Strike timing end date as it is TBD??? I want to know soon as I prefer to look at the coins before submitting or returning and maybe there will be enough time if they say up to Aug 31st or something? for the 30 days. An unusual situation.
I would think..... but there I go thinking again - I never learn ... that the kids set FS clock would start yesterday with your shipment. So.... it should be treated like any new coin/set with the same FS rules. Don't ya think ?
I wasn't planning to send it in. @Goldminers, if your were going to, would you call CS tomorrow to get the official word?
@Kudbegud said:
I would think..... but there I go thinking again - I never learn ... that the kids set FS clock would start yesterday with your shipment. So.... it should be treated like any new coin/set with the same FS rules. Don't ya think ?
I wasn't planning to send it in. @Goldminers, if your were going to, would you call CS tomorrow to get the official word?
I will see if they have a firm date established yet.
With the price of just shy of $700 for the gold issues, I am not interested-yet-as long as I am able to purchase other issues in the commem series for $00 to $450 for 70's in the secondary market-even though I 'collect' these. One of the best ways to stack gold the past few years, though I believe those days have ended!
This is the Kid's set and the 2020-S enhanced half dollar. It is in a big sliding plastic window and slides back and forth into the hoop, or not.
Rattled all around a lot and I was wondering why. LOL. Some seriously crazy expensive packaging, one will be cut out, I think, but I need to figure out which one makes the baskets the most.
This enhanced kid's half dollar and marketing expense may be in the top ten most overpriced clad of the moderns yet. Oh, but there is a colorized clad half Aug 20th. for $55.
Over priced? Yes. It's been my stance for a long while that the option of buying expensive packaging should be just that... an option. Plain generic packaging would be my choice most of the time I think. I'm talking quality packaging like the uncirculated and proof small blue boxes. Not a paper lunch bag. How much does the packaging for this kids set add to the cost? I have a feeling that these were ordered to meet demand which caused the delay.
At least the coin is protected by a capsule. Imagine the outrage if it wasn't.
How many agree with me? Would the generic blue box and capsule like unc and proof singles be you choice most of the time?
Both of mine are in Priority mail to our hosts as they looked OK and will see what happens
I really do not want anymore curved coins on one side. I prefer special ones curved on both sides (convex). Will really mess with the coin stackers. Or just make a solid round silver ball with dimples for golf and go all the way.
Trying for HOF label like the rest, but it wasn't even on the approved list, so it is going there on faith it will be slabbed like my others.
Now, what to do with all this pretty cardboard...and still hoping for a pretty orange box.
Confirmed that the 2020-S enhanced half dollar will be available in the HOF labels, even though at first it was not listed that way. Should be a, "2020-S 50c Basketball Hall of Fame-Enhanced First Strike”, before Sept 3rd.
There will also be a HOF label for the colorized version due out soon.
Are you getting one or both? Do you see this as the beginning of the end for clean US Mint numismatic products ? Will the, possible, inevitable colorizing landslide become an unstoppable force against the collectors mountain chalet's resistance ? Is the civilized coin collectors existence doomed ?
The silver BB colorized might get close to 75,000 sellout because the normal proof is at 62,309 a few days ago; not too far off.
The clad half looks better to me, but $55 is crazy expensive for a 91.67% copper and 8.33% nickel coin. This should be sold for more like $20 and with a higher mintage, so some new kids and collectors might actually decide they want to collect the sets to come and can afford to start.
Overpricing the set to be available only to the "top 1%", figuratively speaking, is not in the spirit of the Mint's mission to serve ALL the public. If they want to sell this for $55 it should be .999 silver. Then have a clad for $20. Cover the bases.
Comments
Got shipped email. All but the kids set which, as noted above, will be in September.
Also got a shipped notice yesterday. I ordered only the MS versions. I'll get the PR versions later this year. And I HATE myself for the OCD that absolutely requires me to buy all the modern commemoratives.
I couldn’t talk myself into buying a single basketball coin! Far cry from the hysteria when the baseball coins went on sale. And, therein lies the problem for me-when I can buy a 6 year old gold baseball coin graded perfect PCGS 70FS for a good bit less money than a raw basketball coin at this point, I can not justify buying the basketball version. Further, we are selling PCGS 70 grade gold baseball coins right now signed by solid Hall of Fame players for quite a bit less money than the raw gold basketball coins! The Mint priced me out of the product-plain and simple.
But, of course, I couldn’t just sit with all the money in my bank unspent. I went right to Heritage and grabbed a super cool finest known variety (pop 4/0) for $2,640 all in, that last sold at auction almost 2 years ago as a pop 2/0 for $6,600 all in. To those registry beginners- the registry is a marathon race, not a sprint!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
An old man, a girl and a wheelchair player....no for me. Ugly coin, way to many themes on one surface. Net covering it all does not make sense....
pass.
bob
1st Day Sales Reported
From today's Coin World (June 22 issue)
As reflected by new posts in this thread, the Basketball coins show an anemic response compared to previous commemorative coin releases. The lowest seller on Thursday is the Unc. $5 Gold at just 1,640 which isn't unanticipated. At this point I don't expect any of these coins to reach "sold out" status.
Politically correct coins are not new.
good one.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Near 50,000 gold baseball sold in a short time frame in 2014 compared to under 6,000 of these basketball on day 1. Can the Mint think for a moment they priced these coins properly? Or any gold or platinum coins this year for that matter?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Hey, if the demand stays that low all year, maybe they'll have a rush in December on the new "keys".
Topical fakes on the bay to report
373075369353
202976781985
Wondercoin| Agreed. I don't get excited about the new listings from USM-even though I collect the gold commems, and like them. With a little patience they come appear here and there for substantially less in PR and MS 70's for close to bullion or sometimes less. I was caught up in the mania of the HOF gold coins-a cool coin imo-and lost out on a $800 bid. Fortunately I was overbid. About a year later I located both the MS and PR versions in FS for less than the $800 bid I lost out on prior.
It is very hard to be enthusiastic about these coins, when you can't even watch a new game on TV.
But, maybe this next one will be a record breaker...LOL
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The Mint has evidently determined that the way to respond to waning collector interest is to a) raise prices, and to b) make more stuff.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Sales figures as of 6/7.......actually better than I thought they'd be
Commemoratives 20CA 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - GOLD PROOF CURVED COIN..... 5,750
Commemoratives 20CB 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - GOLD UNC CURVED COIN......... 2,519
Commemoratives 20CC 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - SILVER PROOF CURVED COIN.... 44,215
Commemoratives 20CD 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - SILVER UNC CURVED COIN........ 14,395
Commemoratives 20CE 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - CLAD PROOF CURVED COIN..... 18,312
Commemoratives 20CG 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME - CLAD UNC CURVED COIN.......... 9,709
Commemoratives 20CH 2020 BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME KID SET -....................................... 20,280
Kid's set half not very much different sold so far than the standard proof half is a bit surprising to me being a unique finish and delayed (for a real reason?) commemorative.
But these are early days.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The gold Basketball uncirculated mintage is already greater than around 22 first spouse gold uncirculated coins final mintages, so it is already pretty common for a new US Mint gold coin. LOL
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The first time we came up with convex and concave coins, I thought it was odd and strange. In fact, I haven't changed my view. I feel
like they all belong on the railroad track until a train rolls over them and straightens them out.
Baseballs and hot dogs. Woot as to basketball ????
I like that "nothing but net" look .... on the one side.
I'm sorry but I think the design is stupid. I can't get past the basketball being larger than the rim and the wheelchair guy's arm being unnaturally long. Too bad they couldn't have put a famous image of a dunk on the coin like Dr. J's free throw line slam in 1976. That was a classic!
I wonder how much of the sale actually goes to the charity?
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Love hoops, primarily college now, but I have to say this is one of the most hideous designs I've seen the mint put out.
I think it’s largely the busyness of the design and the net makes it look like they’re in jail.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
It probably says on the site. It's usually part of the original terms for the coin.
I'm searching. So far I can only find the surcharges and no mention of the goals to give the charity those surcharges.
"Surcharges collected from coin sales — $35 for each gold coin, $10 for each silver coin, and $5 for each half–dollar coin — are authorized to be paid to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame to fund an endowment that will enable increased operations and educational programming."
I'll keep looking.
In actuality, the rim could almost fit two basketballs
I haven't seen this until just now. Gaaack. At least the Baseball one was a decent design. The mess on the reverse is just confusing.
OK, I found this which pertains to all commemorative coins.
The whole document: https://everycrsreport.com/files/20190228_R44623_eab7ed5388b7d77916dd9c5cb970d606cc72d660.html#_Toc2340693
Excerpts from the document:
Surcharges
The surcharges section of the legislation typically sets the surcharges (amount above the face value that the U.S. Mint charges) per coin and designates the distribution of these surcharges to recipient organizations. For example, the statute to authorize the U.S. Army commemorative coin stated:
SEC. 7. SURCHARGES.
(a) In General.—All sales of coins minted under this Act shall include a surcharge as follows:
(1) A surcharge of $35 per coin for the $5 coin.
(2) A surcharge of $10 per coin for the $1 coin.
(3) A surcharge of $5 per coin for the half dollar coin.
(b) Distribution.—Subject to section 5134(f) of title 31, United States Code, all surcharges received by the Secretary from the sale of coins issued under this Act shall be promptly paid by the Secretary to the Foundation to help finance the National Museum of the United States Army.
(c) Audits.—The Foundation shall be subject to the audit requirements of section 5134(f)(2) of title 31, United States Code, with regard to the amounts received by the Foundation under subsection (b).
(d) Limitation.—Notwithstanding subsection (a), no surcharge may be included with respect to the issuance under this Act of any coin during a calendar year if, as of the time of such issuance, the issuance of such coin would result in the number of commemorative coin programs issued during such year to exceed the annual 2 commemorative coin program issuance limitation under section 5112(m)(1) of title 31, United States Code (as in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act). The Secretary of the Treasury may issue guidance to carry out this subsection.24
More information on surcharges and disbursement to designated recipient organizations can be found below under "Disbursement of Surcharges."
Disbursement of Surcharges
An important part of commemorative coin legislation is the designation of groups to receive potential surcharges from the coin sales. Often, when drafting legislation, Members have specific organizations in mind as recipients of potential surcharges. As that legislation is being drafted, however, Members face a choice of whether surcharges should be directed to a single group, or to more than one entity.
In order for a group to receive surcharge payments, it must go through two stages: (1) raise sufficient matching funds from private sources,57 and (2) be subject to annual audits on its use of surcharge payments.58 Designated recipient groups are required to raise matching funds from private sources prior to the disbursement of surcharges. A group's ability to raise sufficient funds is a potentially important consideration. Should a group not raise sufficient private funds, the full surcharge payment for which they could be eligible might not be disbursed.
Authorizing legislation generally includes language about how the group might use surcharges. As shown in "Surcharges" above, these purposes are often broad. For example, the legislation that authorized the 1993 Thomas Jefferson Commemorative coin directed surcharges to two organizations: the Jefferson Endowment Fund and the Corporation for Jefferson's Poplar Forest.59 Funds for the Jefferson Endowment Fund were to be used "to establish and maintain an endowment to be a permanent source of support for Monticello and its historic furnishings; and for the Jefferson Endowment Fund's educational programs, including the International Center for Jefferson Studies."60 For the Corporation for Jefferson's Poplar Forest, funds were to be used for the "restoration and maintenance of Poplar Forest."61
Once sufficient funds are raised and surcharges are disbursed, designated recipient groups are subject to an audit of surcharge payments.62 Additionally, the surcharge payments must be "accounted for separately from all other revenues and expenditures of the organization."63 These audits are conducted "in accordance with generally accepted government auditing standards by an independent public accountant selected by the organization."64 Should a group not use payments properly, that information would likely be discovered by the required audit and could potentially result in a sanction, although no specific penalty is mentioned in law.
If you haven't "rested your eyes" yet, prepare your self for a little more. An example is included showing a typical disbursement to a recipient of surcharges. Note: the paragraph near the end about the recovery of "all allocable operation and program costs prior to the release of surcharge funds."
There is the catch. If sales don't cover all costs the remainder available to the charity would be a negative number and therefore the charity, to quote Willy Wonka of Charlie and the chocolate factory -
Willy Wonka: Wrong sir, wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him. It states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if, and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy. I the undersigned shall forfeit all rights privileges and licenses herein and herein contained et cetera et cetera... huhh fax mentis incendium gloria culpum et cetera et cetera... huhh memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there black and white clear as crystal! You stole fizzylifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Grandpa Joe: You're a crook. You're a cheat and a swindler. That's what you are! How can you do a thing like this?! Build up a little boy's hope and then smash all his dreams to pieces! You're an inhuman MONSTER!
Willy Wonka: I SAID GOOD DAY!
Disbursement of Surcharges
As discussed above under "Authorizing Commemorative Coins," each authorizing statute sets a surcharge amount per coin and designates one or more recipient organizations to receive the surcharges. A designated recipient organization is "any organization designated, under any provision of law, as the recipient of any surcharge imposed on the sale of any numismatic item."44
Commemorative coin legislation generally includes the name(s) of the organization(s) that will benefit from the sale of the coin and how the surcharges will be divided, if necessary. For example, the legislation authorizing a commemorative coin for the U.S. Marshals Service specified four groups to receive distribution from the program.45 They were
the U.S. Marshals Museum, Inc.,
the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children,
the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association Foundation, and
the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.46
Additionally, the law might also specify how much money the designated recipient organization should receive. For the Marshals Service commemorative coin, the first $5 million was specified for the U.S. Marshals Museum. After that, additional surcharges were divided equally among the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association Foundation, and the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.47
Once a commemorative coin has been authorized, the CCRA requires that certain standards be met before surcharge payments can be distributed to designated recipient organizations:48
Guidance provided by the U.S. Mint in Surcharge Recipient Organization's Compliance Procedures for Surcharge Eligibility & Payments includes further details of the requirements placed on designated recipient groups before surcharge payments can be made. These include requirements for documentation on the amount of money raised from private sources and the period of fund raising. To document these requirements, designated recipient groups must fill out a "Schedule of Funds Raised From Private Sources," which is provided in an appendix to the Surcharge Recipient Organization's Compliance Procedures for Surcharge Eligibility & Payments publication.52
Following completion of these tasks, and after the Mint has recouped any expenses related to minting the commemorative coin, surcharges are then disbursed to the designated recipient organization.53 Since 1982, when the commemorative coin program was restarted, the U.S. Mint has raised more than $506 million in surcharges for various designated recipient groups.54 Production costs for each commemorative coin can differ based on design, administrative costs, and metals used. For example, Table 4 shows how the U.S. Mint calculated surcharges for a commemorative coin for the 2007 Benjamin Franklin Commemorative Coin.55
Table 4. Example Calculation of Commemorative Coin Surcharge Payments
Â
Benjamin Franklin
REVENUE
$20,348,835
COST OF GOODS SOLD
Â
Manufacturing and Assembling
$7,576,163
Order Fulfillment
$549,513
Total Cost of Goods Sold
$8,125,676
RESULTS BEFORE SELLING, GENERAL & ADMINISTRATIVE
$12,223,159
Selling, General & Administrative
Â
Promotional
$1,000,000
Travel
$2,290
General & Administrative & Marketing
$2,529,656
Total Selling, General & Administrative
$3,531,946
PROFIT BEFORE SURCHARGES
$8,691,213
SURCHARGE ON REVENUEa
$4,995,570
ESTIMATED PROFIT (LOSS)b
$3,695,643
POTENTIAL UNRECOVERED MINT INVESTMENTc
Â
Melting
$1,710
Manufacturing and Assembling
$511,527
TOTAL
$513,237
SURCHARGE FORWARDED TO RECPIENT ORGANIZATIONS
$3,369,060
Source: Adapted from Department of the Treasury, U.S. Mint, FY2007 1st Quarter Financial Report of the United States Mint Commemorative Coin Programs, p. 6, at https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/ccra2007q1.pdf.
a. Surcharge on revenue are the proceeds collected for designated recipient organizations.
b. "P.L. 104-208 requires the United States Mint to recover all allocable operation and program costs prior to the release of surcharge funds. The United States Mint will reduce the surcharge payment to recover these costs as necessary." For more information, see Department of the Treasury, U.S. Mint, FY2007 1st Quarter Financial Report of the United States Mint Commemorative Coin Programs, p. 6, at https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/ccra2007q1.pdf.
c. As required by P.L. 104-208, §529.
You have to figure these agreements are written by high ranking government lawyers and they always leave a way to pay nothing.
I’ll warm the bench on this one.
As opposed to the mess on the obverse?
I was very excited when this coin was announced and finally went on sale. I bought all 3 proof coins plus the kids set. Perhaps not my best decision. The gold coin is very small, which is usually okay, but not for the busy obverse design of this coin. It does not show well. The bigger silver and clad coins are better. However, the Mint packed the silver coin so tightly in the case that I cannot get it out. If I use too much force, I'm afraid I will break or scratch the plastic capsule. The coin concept and design are good, but it does not translate well to a small coin.
Welcome @JeffM to the forum (or jungle). Nice to get a first hand opinion from someone holding the actual coins.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
OH my June 10th and they are not sold out yet
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Got Email That The Kids Set Shipped
Yes, mine shipped yesterday. I was trying to find this original post.
So far PCGS did not say the First Strike timing end date as it is TBD??? I want to know soon as I prefer to look at the coins before submitting or returning and maybe there will be enough time if they say up to Aug 31st or something? for the 30 days. An unusual situation.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I would think..... but there I go thinking again - I never learn ... that the kids set FS clock would start yesterday with your shipment. So.... it should be treated like any new coin/set with the same FS rules. Don't ya think ?
I wasn't planning to send it in. @Goldminers, if your were going to, would you call CS tomorrow to get the official word?
Zero interest in coins from the 21st century; or anything after 1933.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
I will see if they have a firm date established yet.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Kids set still available.... insane price for a clad half dollar.....
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
pass
Coins for sake at link below
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOVMv7FZDb2BvqQnSIUKnelz2nhX9TVEMcKHgHm
With the price of just shy of $700 for the gold issues, I am not interested-yet-as long as I am able to purchase other issues in the commem series for $00 to $450 for 70's in the secondary market-even though I 'collect' these. One of the best ways to stack gold the past few years, though I believe those days have ended!
My 2 enhanced BB Kid's set halves should arrive Friday. I expect several old orders will be cancelled and returned at this stage.
No word from PCGS for dates for FS eligibility, but the coin number should be 814985 in CoinFacts I think.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
This is the Kid's set and the 2020-S enhanced half dollar. It is in a big sliding plastic window and slides back and forth into the hoop, or not.
Rattled all around a lot and I was wondering why. LOL. Some seriously crazy expensive packaging, one will be cut out, I think, but I need to figure out which one makes the baskets the most.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Not even a little bit.
For the $45 these cost, you do have a good reason to laugh at those who have to have the half.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
This enhanced kid's half dollar and marketing expense may be in the top ten most overpriced clad of the moderns yet. Oh, but there is a colorized clad half Aug 20th. for $55.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Over priced? Yes. It's been my stance for a long while that the option of buying expensive packaging should be just that... an option. Plain generic packaging would be my choice most of the time I think. I'm talking quality packaging like the uncirculated and proof small blue boxes. Not a paper lunch bag. How much does the packaging for this kids set add to the cost? I have a feeling that these were ordered to meet demand which caused the delay.
At least the coin is protected by a capsule. Imagine the outrage if it wasn't.
How many agree with me? Would the generic blue box and capsule like unc and proof singles be you choice most of the time?
Both of mine are in Priority mail to our hosts as they looked OK and will see what happens
I really do not want anymore curved coins on one side. I prefer special ones curved on both sides (convex). Will really mess with the coin stackers. Or just make a solid round silver ball with dimples for golf and go all the way.
Trying for HOF label like the rest, but it wasn't even on the approved list, so it is going there on faith it will be slabbed like my others.
Now, what to do with all this pretty cardboard...and still hoping for a pretty orange box.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
First strike eligible until
SEPTEMBER 3, 2020
according to PCGS, so my Aug 3rd was an early one.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Confirmed that the 2020-S enhanced half dollar will be available in the HOF labels, even though at first it was not listed that way. Should be a, "2020-S 50c Basketball Hall of Fame-Enhanced First Strike”, before Sept 3rd.
There will also be a HOF label for the colorized version due out soon.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Color Comes Tomorrow
Are you getting one or both? Do you see this as the beginning of the end for clean US Mint numismatic products ? Will the, possible, inevitable colorizing landslide become an unstoppable force against the collectors mountain chalet's resistance ? Is the civilized coin collectors existence doomed ?
The silver BB colorized might get close to 75,000 sellout because the normal proof is at 62,309 a few days ago; not too far off.
The clad half looks better to me, but $55 is crazy expensive for a 91.67% copper and 8.33% nickel coin. This should be sold for more like $20 and with a higher mintage, so some new kids and collectors might actually decide they want to collect the sets to come and can afford to start.
Overpricing the set to be available only to the "top 1%", figuratively speaking, is not in the spirit of the Mint's mission to serve ALL the public. If they want to sell this for $55 it should be .999 silver. Then have a clad for $20. Cover the bases.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set