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When you see a crazy low auction estimate...
MrEureka
Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
What do you think is the most likely scenario...
A. The consignor is dead.
B. The cataloger is an idiot.
C. They're just playing with us.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Comments
C
Latin American Collection
Is it fair to say that low estimates help build interest because more people think they can get it for less and that high ones encourage higher bidding?
The cynic in me wants to think they're always playing a game, but estimates are nearly impossible to always get right.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Or they just don’t know the value.
This is often the case with items with a special provenance or some other non-standard attribute.
C
D) Goldbergs have an upcoming sale.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
There it is!
C and
(D)They want to sell it
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Formerly, I assumed that I myself was in error.
Now that i'm getting old, I have lost patience with those who don't even care to know what it is they don't know and thus blithely propagate their own ignorance through cyberspace. ("Que Sais Je?" was Michel de Montaigne's motto.)
So, I'm trending towards (B), with the exception of a couple of heavy hitting European auction houses that practice (C) on a regular basis, and a few local establishments who specialize in (A) (because a real collector whose brain and legs were still functioning would run far away).
It's sad, but please don't ask for examples, no need to be mean.
I want to say its psychological to trick you into bidding higher. I see this with Stacks a lot......they will give very very low estimates on the world coins I collect and these coins go for 5-20x more than the estimate.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
C for certain.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
C.
I recall an auction company that was located in Michigan 30-40 years ago that was well known for its low estimates on some exceptionally nice coins in its sales. They never went cheap but definitely hiked interest in and attendance at the auctions.
C !!!
I agree with bidask. People who are interested in the item probably have a good notion as to the approximate value. My problem is with the fixed lowest bid. Sometimes that is so high that I do not bother with an item that otherwise would interest me.
DPOTD
CNG is an example of where low estimates seem to drive interests in bidding, particularly in their feature auctions. I've picked up a bargain here and there - but with "moderns" and definitely not ancients.
Trickery. Unless the description is lacking.
definitely C
it will attract bids and hence attention...
european houses do it all the time... even Heritage
recently a european house started at Euro 400 for a estimated endprice of 2,500. But, they knew it would go over 20K. and it went over 30K. safeguards for them?? oh yes, their very own bidders in the crowd...
an experienced buyer knows what it is anyway and will bid accordingly.
My issue is fake bidding to show upward movement. I prefer a reserve that actually indicates the true minimum
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
OK, I pick "C" obviously as well....
Trust level? Not very high. Why do seemingly the same coins come up again so often and after a short period of time?
In addition, there are also virtually herds of coins that are semi-scarce or of "value" that show up repeatedly - like the 1909 SVDB, 1877 IHC, etc. I don't believe that the sales of these herd coins are real to a large degree.
Somewhere in the middle are the cases where your gut tells you it is a bit fishy, and if there is a coin you need (want?) that price seems to get jacked up; if you buy it at the elevated price then you/I are/am the sucker. When you don't, frequently it will also show up at that house, or more often a similar venue. The problem is being able to know this ahead of time and your comfort level.
I recently bought a coin from a European auction, and because it was so rare I paid what I feel was a "manipulated" price but at least got the coin. These are cases where there is no proof, just a gut level feel. And lest it seem self-serving, this has happened on coins I had no interest in and therefore could follow from a neutral perspective.
Caveat emptor!
Well, just Love coins, period.
C.
It helps them promote themselves to prospective consignors, in that the price realized was far above the estimate.
And how interesting that when a coin is passed because of no bids, then the estimate is removed from the listing after the sale!
All you have to do to learn the truth is take some of those expensive common coins to a coin show and try to sell them. You'll find that it's reasonably easy to get close to auction prices for most of them. Which should tell you that the vast majority of the reported auction sales are almost certainly real.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
There really is not a good answer. And I am unable to keep a straight face when an auction house advertises for marketing purposes that coins x and y went for 3 and 4 times the auction estimate. While auction houses seek to encourage bidding, there is something a tad disingenuous about setting a low estimate that is simply not based in reality. This happens more than what should be tolerated.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The thing is Andy, I have seen these "herd" coins reappear too often, and so IMO the fact that those date coins sell at shows is really an independent variable from their possible "supported" reappearances at auction - and although I mentioned herd coins, I am also referring to many others that often become almost friends in that I/we become so familiar with them. The point is, as I am sure you are aware, quite a few coins are punted about in the system and it certainly appears prices are supported (pick euphemism of your choice) as these are often reported as sales, or at least "prices realised".
Well, just Love coins, period.
Depends on the auctioneer and their understanding of the material and clientele. It could be B or C.
‘A’ is also quite important. Most collectors have a good idea where to place their material for sale/auction where they are likely to get a good price, and when to place certain reserves. Heirs not so much unless they are given specific instructions.
and, some auction houses offer the unsold items at up to 20% **off **the starting price!!!!!!!!!!! many for 10 %.
plus their commission.
so my question is this: what was their buying price or original promised price to the cosigner?
profit margins must sometimes border on or exceed the the unethical and embarrassing level.
You're not kidding!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The item I bid on from the Heritage Central States auction actually had a high starting bid for what it was. But given what it was and what auction site it was on, being auctioned in the USA vs. Europe it really did not attract a lot of attention. For American collectors of said interests the high start might have been a put off. Knowing what I know about said item I thought the bidding could go much higher - but then it was in an American auction, got mostly overlooked and I was the successful bidder at the starting bid. If this item had been on Spinks, DNW, Baldwins I would have been blown out of the water with my bid.